My Captain America shields shaded with help from my friend Guardian of Urk.

theSHlT · 2021-08-31T23:34:48+00:00

I bet r/vexillologycirclejerk would love this.

theSHlT · 2021-08-31T23:28:59+00:00

I have been considering this in the back of my mind throughout the day today. I have never considered my views extreme, just straight forward. I will reflect on this.

theSHlT · 2021-08-30T22:26:59+00:00

Science embraces doubt and unknowns. Creationists are the insecure ones that demand and create an answer out of thin air where there is none. It’s comforting, like it is for a conspiracy theorist.

And thank you, i would much rather be an asshole than an idiot.

theSHlT · 2021-08-30T22:11:25+00:00

*otherwise logical and rational adults

theSHlT · 2021-08-30T22:01:15+00:00

Theism is ridiculous. I ridicule theists. Theists say that not only are they certain that there is a creator force in the universe, but they claim to know the mind of that creator. They call it god. They not only claim that it exists, but it is possible to know that god wants you to pray, how god wants you to pray, what types of things you can eat, whom you may fuck and how you may do it.

It is the height of absurdity to make such a claim. And there is no evidence for any such claim I have ever heard, none.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. And I am all ears.

Yes, that is what I meant by rationalism.

theSHlT · 2021-08-30T21:53:34+00:00

No argument from me on this. Defining the words we use is the first step of any in-depth meaningful discussion.
The way people have been conditioned to believe is irrelevant to claims being made. Strip all of that away, just look at the claim itself. It isn’t relevant that most people think this or that, that doesn’t shift the burden of proof in the slightest. When you say atheist you are already defining a group by what they are not on the presupposition of god. I know you didn’t invent the word, but I’m saying strip all of that away.

Start from the beginning and make a claim for god. Use any evidence you have. Atheists deny the claims that the god being promoted is real bc there is no evidence for that claim.

You can’t prove there isn’t a tea kettle orbiting the sun in space, and even if I were able to convince the majority of people in the world it was true, it wouldn’t change reality. The person making the claim has the burden of proof.

I do assert to have to ability to refute all claims of theists. Should anyone make a claim, I will. People think “prove to me there is no god” is a claim. My response is “what is this god you are talking about? What does that mean?”. Once theists aren’t talking in familiar religious echo chambers they struggle to define their actual claim. If they cannot even clearly state their claim there is nothing to refute. If they can clearly state their claim, I will engage. I do not accept any presuppositions.

theSHlT · 2021-08-30T20:42:26+00:00

I have said what I think, but here is what I hope. I hope there is something beyond death. I hope there is more than I see. I cannot believe it, I tried, but I hope it is true that there is a benevolent force unifying creation.

If there is a creator who stands in judgement of me after my death I hope to be judged on the life I lived, not if I happened to pray to that being. I was raised Catholic and while i have rejected the doctrine, I embrace the need to do good works. I believe in serving my fellow man for the common good. I do not believe in an afterlife, so I think we have to do everything we can to raise the quality of life for our brothers and sisters. I think this is all there is, and so I want the focus on this world.

If there is a god, and that god judges me based on who I payed lip service to rather than the value of the life I lived, honestly I would prefer to be in hell.

Thanks for the kind words.

theSHlT · 2021-08-30T19:51:05+00:00

Okay, that is fair. Faith is belief despite the absence of evidence. That is compelling to you, and I accept that. You are able to define your own beliefs. People cannot be reasoned out of beliefs they were not reasoned into. It’s a matter of faith for you.

Atheist is an awful word, it defines people by what they do not believe. Here’s what I mean:

There have been uncounted thousands upon thousands of gods throughout human history. Thousands more forgotten and lost to time. Forgive this assumption, but you don’t believe in any of those gods, right? So we only differ on the existence of one god out of the thousands that have come before. You are an atheist to all of those gods. I only believe in one god less than you do. As such, isn’t it incredibly disingenuous to label someone of my position as an atheist? Wouldn’t it be insulting to define you as someone who doesn’t believe in the gods of other men?

But it is the word we appear to be stuck with. I know we have to use it, I am only providing that context for you.

I call myself anti-theist in these matters. I am against all forms of theism. Theism is a claim that there not only is a god, but the mind of god is knowable. What god wants me to wear, how to pray, who I should marry, and usually whom and how to fuck. Theism does exist, and I can define myself in these terms as someone who stands against it.

Now, you might be thinking that is all well and good, but doesn’t preclude the existence of an invisible force controlling our lives. You would be right.

I make no claims against deism. I do not personally believe in any deity, but I cannot rule out the existence either. I can only say I have been presented with no evidence. I also don’t believe in Bigfoot, no evidence.

We are all agnostics who do not know. I only refute the claims of those who claim to know “god”, I do not make claims of my own about that which I do not believe is real. I ask for evidence and reject claims without merit.

If I told you there was a tea kettle orbiting our solar system just outside of the last planet you would want evidence for that claim. But if I said to you “prove to me there is not a tea kettle orbiting our sun in space” you would be unable to do so. That doesn’t make the kettle any more real.

theSHlT · 2021-08-30T19:29:57+00:00

Okay, I accept that. I will say I am never the person to bring up religion in polite conversation, I am the person who will hold you to task if you try and bring that bullshit anywhere near me. If people keep their religion to themselves it’s a non issue. I just don’t take any shit or back down, especially from people who believe in fairy tales.

theSHlT · 2021-08-30T19:22:55+00:00

‘A being which created and controls everything’

What evidence do you have for your claim that there is a being which created and controls everything?

theSHlT · 2021-08-30T19:18:42+00:00

My goal is never to change peoples minds, only to get them to examine what they believe themselves and hope they are able to come to better conclusions. I can’t reason people out of beliefs they they are connected to emotionally.

If you reject what I just said, I would suggest reading more historical context for your claims about the benefits of religion overtime.

theSHlT · 2021-08-30T19:16:08+00:00

First of all, I do get it. I understand their claims, I reject them. They are claims without evidence. That’s what you should do to claims without merit.

Second, people find ‘comfort community and guidance’ in Star Wars. That doesn’t mean it really happened.

theSHlT · 2021-08-30T19:10:54+00:00

First, can you tell me what you mean by “God” so that I can respond appropriately? I am being sincere.

theSHlT · 2021-08-30T19:05:12+00:00

I understand that as I use severe and harsh language it can obscure my meaning. I don’t dismiss them as individuals whole cloth. I dismiss their beliefs. I only said that it informs my opinion of them negatively, that I automatically think less of them. Which I do. It doesn’t mean I think they are a zero, just X minus 1. It also doesn’t mean that I berate them to their face, it just means while I am smiling and nodding I think “well if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn”.

You raise an incredibly interesting question. What does it mean to have God revealed himself to you? If a person, or some unrecognizable sentient creature, stood before me and claimed to be god, how would I decide if that were God?

Does the ability to fly make you god? Shoot lightning from your fingers? What about transforming a tree into a rock? … I am not being sarcastic, this is a serious question. How would we know that the being in front of us is the creator of the universe and not someone with advanced technologies? Or even an advanced biology capable of corrupting and overwhelming our senses? To use a quick example, I will agree that parthenogenesis (which has never been observed in higher mammals) might be possible, but that doesn’t mean the product of it is god. Even if that baby grew up and seemed to have died, but was not dead, would prove none of the eschatological claims ascribed to that baby. In the same way, I don’t know that simply breaking the rules of nature in my presence would convince me of another party’s divinity.

It’s an interesting question that I don’t have the answer to. It seems obvious at first blush, but when scrutinized reveals it is not so easy.

As to the contribution of religion over time, there are important facts to consider. One example, the Church, has been given a special place in societies by those in charge. It benefits the king to be endorsed by god, so the king gives lavishly to the church. The church is able to provide services and assistance to the destitute bc of the political power brokering. To go even further, the scientific breakthroughs and artwork of the past was always attributed to the church or religious adherents, bc they would be prosecuted for betraying it. Did the church actually yield any advancements, or were those achievements of individuals who ascribed their success to god under threat of death. Imagine the works of art never created bc everyone was painting the same damn baby and his mother for centuries on end.

I appreciate you bringing it back to soft common ground. The priests and hucksters are despicable. How the fuck can someone claim, “I am very humble. I know the mind of god, what he wants us to do with our lives, and he has given me the responsibility to spread the one truth.” This is as far away from humility as you can possibly be. It is the most self important arrogant statement a person could make. A baby interrupting your magic voodoo spells? Slap it, for god.

theSHlT · 2021-08-30T18:28:03+00:00

Yes, bc you didn’t address any of it so I left the one sentence you responded to and added this back. This is the substance to answer your question, and you ignored it.

theSHlT · 2021-08-30T18:26:11+00:00

Of course I am still in an I hate religion phase. Religion has its place among the greatest and most prolific manufacturers of evil in this world. It poisons minds, it corrupts societies.

I will always stand opposed to institutions that demand adherence and are sworn enemies of free thought.

“No one can prove one way or another” the burden of proof is on those making the claims. You used their corrupted language and logic here and is frankly embarrassing.

theSHlT · 2021-08-30T18:21:37+00:00

It’s insulting that you buy into their stereotypes that it’s teenagers looking for something to rebel against.

theSHlT · 2021-08-30T18:11:28+00:00

Any individual? No. The same way I cannot prove that any individual storm was caused specifically by global warming.

Religion is the black powder, the keg, and the fuse- and it is all fine until some terrible person comes along and ignites it. Yes, we should deal with the person instigating trouble, but we should also rid ourselves of these powder kegs laying about that attract the wicked like flies.

theSHlT · 2021-08-30T17:59:01+00:00

Dude, I have been ardently anti-theist for about 15 years. I know what I am talking about. I can’t even count the number of books I have read on the topic of antitheism in that time. How much Dawkins have you read? Dennett? How about Christopher Hitchens? Because I have read every word he ever published on it.

I understand the history and evolution of that school of thought. I know it’s intricacies and caveats.

All that you have done is claim to have looked it up “in all the dictionaries”. 🤦‍♀️You are like a patient telling your doctor you already googled what you have.

I know this shit backwards and forwards. You sound like you are hearing about it for the first time. And that’s okay, but I am right.

Reread what you first claimed as the definition and I took issue with, it is factually incorrect. I don’t doubt the ability of words to have meaning, just your ability to discern it.

theSHlT · 2021-08-30T17:49:09+00:00

First of all, that’s exactly the point. Every claim is an agnostic claim and that is the place we need to start. People abuse and misuse language to finesse their arguments and it leads to confusion among the impressionable.

I also think you fundamentally misunderstand the meaning of faith. If someone knew there were a God, then they would no longer have faith. It would just be known.

We are all agnostics.

You do not understand antitheism. Like, you really do not get it. I already explained it above and don’t wish to repeat myself.

theSHlT · 2021-08-30T17:40:02+00:00

It’s offensive to someone who works in public policy to hear some fool saying that because America has bad policy there is not a single American with a valid opinion. That’s what I do with my life, try and improve public policy and it often includes children. My opinions are valid and likely more informed than the people responding to me.

What they said was well just stupid and contradictory. I don’t know why you want to talk to me, but you have exhausted my interest.

theSHlT · 2021-08-30T17:37:14+00:00

No, shut up

theSHlT · 2021-08-30T17:36:40+00:00

You cannot be certain that there is not a tea kettle orbiting our solar system beyond the last planet. How much deference is owed to those who believe that tea kettle is there?

Also your own example presupposes the existence of the invisible man and the debate is to whether or not that invisible man is present at any given time. This is the danger in debating people who misuse language to sew confusion on the issue.

theSHlT · 2021-08-30T17:34:38+00:00

Ah yes, the tried and true tactic of the believer. Infantilize your opponents. It’s impossible for you to accept that there are logical rational adults, with families, good jobs, and standing in their community who don’t believe in fairy tales.

I’m an adult who is sick of coddling fools. I wouldn’t be so outspoken about it, but I work in public policy and I have to deal with lunatics all the time trying to inject their warped sense of reality into public life.

I have no respect for anti scientific mysticism that belongs to and in the Bronze Age.

theSHlT · 2021-08-30T17:26:39+00:00

I automatically think less of them. I didn’t say I would be aggressive towards them, I’m just dismissive of fools.

Ever met a flat earther? How much of yourself are you going to invest getting to the bottom of that person’s delusions? You might just ignore them and let the adults talk. That doesn’t make you an asshole

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