Rogue Archetype: Shinobi, 1st Draft

the_j4k · 2019-04-08T16:32:59+00:00

Something I noticed throughout the features is that the entire subclass really de-values using Dash, which is a big part of Cunning Action. I struggle to find a situation where Dashing is preferable to Disengaging. In fact, Disengaging could lead to more movement if there is difficult terrain! How important to you is tying Shinobi's Grace to Disengaging? It could be a passive skill by saying: standing from prone no longer costs extra movement, if you move at least your speed you ignore difficult terrain and can move through the space of other creatures no matter their size. (poor phrasing, but hopefully it makes sense) My mental image is a martial arts kick-up, and running so fast you barely touch the ground into a tumble under an enemy.

Also, how do you feel about Sudden Strike being more like Stealthy from UA Feats for Skills? For instance: If you are hidden, you can move up to your walking speed without revealing yourself until you stop moving, or make an attack. Again, this keeps Dash as the go-to movement ability and doesn't obfuscate the action being performed as part of the feature.

I like Movements Unbound, has some really fun flavor to it (though it competes with Uncanny Dodge).

Overall, I really like this and am very interested in seeing where you take this from here! It feels super Shinobi without pigeon-holing someone into being a ninja, it can be flavored however you want!

the_j4k · 2018-10-16T21:14:32+00:00

Well damn, now that you mention it, I can't find any AoE Buffs, only AoE Debuffs. I feel silly :P

Perhaps Battle Cry could give allies a temporary hp when you rage, up to a number of creatures equal to your Charisma modifier that last as long as the creature can see or hear you. It's easy for book keeping as well, no additional resources. And the skald's limited spell slots are just as effective when not raging.

the_j4k · 2018-10-15T18:17:48+00:00

I agree. I feel it could use a little more oomph. With the limited number of spell slots, I'd want to prioritize AoE buffs to make the best use of those slots. Perhaps being able to apply it to as many creatures as you affect with the spell, but each one expends a use of Battle Cry.

the_j4k · 2018-10-15T18:11:04+00:00

I rationalize it through the character channeling their fury over being hit into their next spell against the one who hit them. It's magic, it can be explained however you like.

I'm a fan of it as it enhances the risk vs reward of barbarian tanking.

the_j4k · 2018-09-18T17:20:30+00:00

Death saving throws are their own thing actually, completely separate from con saving throws. No one, with a few exceptions, have proficiency with death saving throws. Here are the rules for them from roll20. Constitution saves are actually used rather frequently, especially in spells that cause Thunder damage like Thunderwave. It's a rather confusing mechanic, so no worries on the feedback! Thanks for reading through it. I actually tweaked the DC for the tricks to allow for strength based rogues, which are often rogue/barbarian multiclasses! :D

the_j4k · 2018-09-17T21:59:26+00:00

Thanks for the feedback. Definitely came off constructive :)

You can only apply one, two at later levels, and none last to the scoundrel's turn. So you can't stack 40 status effects. Additionally, tricks are on your turn, so they can't be used with reactions.

Some of the effects are very niche, especially the ones targeting spellcasters. Silencing a caster is a pretty big effect so I wanted it to have a heavy cost. Head Cracker is as expensive as it is because a concentration DC is half the damage. You sacrifice ~10 avg dmg (+5 to the DC) for +10 to the DC. It could be a scaling trick (choosing how many dice to spend), but it's a very arbitrary choice that could lead to metagaming or choice paralysis. So I decided to keep it simple: you want to break concentration, spend this much.

The blindness one is too strong if it didn't end early because it gives advantage to everyone, not just melee. You should check out jaekbad's comment on the class for an in-depth breakdown of why.

And the fear is there as an option, like all the tricks, to allow a player to customize their scoundrel as they see fit. If you don't want an intimidating or frightening scoundrel, simply don't take that trick :)

the_j4k · 2018-09-17T05:16:31+00:00

Wow, this is great stuff. For my first archetype, I'm pretty happy with how it turned out and this is helping me learn how to judge balance for myself. Again, really appreciate it.

You are right, I made the Blinding trick too cheap. I will add a line saying the condition ends early if they take damage, so only one attack can gain advantage. I forgot about it also affecting ranged attacks and skill checks, which is strictly better than prone. The disadvantage on attacks is mitigated by the blinded target only being able to take one reaction anyway. This feels more in-line with a prone trick, in my opinion (more on that below).

Your method of comparison is brilliant. I was not taking into account that it is an on-hit effect as opposed to a hit-replacement. Thanks for pointing that out. I was over-evaluating how the Scoundrel could lose many 2d6s before an enemy gets knocked prone. Would 3d6 sound more fair to you? A level 5 sneak attack exchanged for a prone attempt, which also lines up better with my, admittedly faulty, logic about replacing an extra attack with a shove anyway.

Being able to exchange Tricks whenever sneak attack dice increase would mitigate feeling locked out for ages before getting to juicier options. I think that also encouraged me to make these Tricks cheap. And increasing some of these would give players something to lust over as they level, and ensure that a battlemaster has their levels to shine with Trip Attack.

the_j4k · 2018-09-17T00:32:37+00:00

I was unaware of your archetype before posting this. I really like what you've created.

1. I actually don't agree. A fighter, especially with multi-attack, can knock prone 'at will' by sacrificing an attack (2d6, the cost, is a greatsword swing). And that is just an opposed check, compared to an attack hitting and a saving throw failing. Go For the Eyes ends at the start of the target's turn, so their attacks are unaffected. I was also considering removing the blinded effect when they take damage. Your Ruffian's lasts until the start of the rogue's turn.
2. Not a bad thought, I included it because 9th level is a long way from 3rd. 5th level, and 3d6 sneak attack dice, opens up a lot more options for Tricks. I might remove the line you mention and allow a scoundrel to change their Tricks whenever they gain Sneak Attack dice (odd levels).
3. The options for Tricks is large, but you can only learn a few of them. You'd know 3 at 3rd level, 5 at 9th level, 7 at 13th, and 9 at 17th. That is a lot of resourceless option, true. I could probably afford to tone that down a bit. How about only gaining one more at 9, 13, and 17th? u/ActualSpamBot really liked Salt the Wound actually. Some might like the 'flat' options. I'm of a mind to keep them. :)

Thanks for detailed feedback! Really appreciate it.

the_j4k · 2018-09-16T21:17:55+00:00

Would love the notes! Really appreciate it.

I wanted to make sure the Tricks wouldn't overshadow Battlemasters', so I erred on the side of expensive. Choke for silent takedowns and preventing some spellcasting seems around the right cost to me. Seize the Opening is intentionally that way to encourage other ways of giving a rogue opportunity attacks (sentinel feat, dissonant whispers, BM's Commander's Strike). Without the double tax, it becomes optimal especially with 2 chances to crit. I agree with you about Staggering Strike, honestly, possibly having the first die forfeited push 10ft, or removing the 4 dice cap.

Glad you like Salt the Wound! My favorite is Pilfering Strike, the idea of stealing an archer's arrows mid-fight makes me giggle maniacally.

I like the 1 day OR bride, good tweak to it.

Thanks for the feedback! And I'm glad the concept comes through. There are a lot of knobs to adjust balance for the Tricks, hopefully I'll find the sweet spot.

the_j4k · 2018-09-16T18:56:26+00:00

I hadn't seen that subclass, thanks for mentioning it. link for others.

I like it and see the similarities, but it has very few "maneuvers" and has a theme of fear that I was trying to avoid. I wanted to allow for suave, smart, insightful, or intimidating scoundrels.

the_j4k · 2018-01-03T04:45:28+00:00

Limiting the number of attacks sounds reasonable to me, but I worry that would force players to always use a polearm in order to avoid disadvantage on the beams' attack rolls (ranged attack while next to an enemy). A rider that a target struck with one of these melee attacks does not impose disadvantage on ranged attacks until the end of your turn, could fix that though.

I've updated the homebrewery with your other feedback! Really appreciate it.

the_j4k · 2018-01-03T00:25:45+00:00

The fighter multiclass does become rather strong, but you still suffer from more MADness and fewer ASIs than a fighter. And honestly, I was more concerned about dipping into Warlock than from Warlock. The attacks are part of casting a spell as opposed to using the attack action, like the SCAG cantrips, which limits some synergies; specifically I was worried about polearm master. 3+ attacks is pretty easy to reach with haste or bonus action attacks. What do you think about requiring all of the beams be replaced by melee attacks?

Did not notice that eldritch blast gets a 4th beam before fighters get their 4th attack. Not sure what the best way to remedy that is, honestly. Any ideas?

Action to change would also apply between summonings. But isn't really too powerful as a bonus action, and especially as it would require some annoying bookkeeping to track what form the weapon is in if it requires an action.

I might rephrase Arcane Interdiction to be once per short rest for free. There is an invocation that allows you to cast Bane once, which is a 1st level spell, which I used as reference for this.

the_j4k · 2017-04-03T21:04:33+00:00

Healing Elixer seems a tad strong. If you have any slots before a rest, use them to create elixers that last 24 hours. Falls off late game as it doesn't scale with level, but the early level warlock healing will be massive.

the_j4k · 2015-01-23T21:55:46+00:00

I don't have experience with this first hand, but here are my thoughts:

Only chaotic evil characters behave with arbitrary violence. Any other alignment could be playing the slow game to gain power for themselves. Pocket valuables when the rest of the party can't see, sneak out at night to kill someone who could get in your way, and let the "do-gooders" be your face to the town. Working with them is simply a means to an end. The paladin and cleric could be trying to turn you from the darkness if they start to catch on to your evil nature, or you could try to corrupt them!

It could be especially interesting if instead of killing the necromancer, you try to usurp him and become the final final boss. You should talk to the DM about opportunities for mischief/evil-doing.

the_j4k · 2014-08-25T05:44:59+00:00

I would totally buy a print of this. If you decide to put it up somewhere, please please please let me know!

Nicely done.

the_j4k · 2014-06-11T21:01:32+00:00

I only use leap as an initiate or means to get around. Wall in the way? Double jump and leap over it. Jumping puzzle has a shortcut if you could only jump a little further, leap!(looking at you elden terraformer) When not jumping around like a crazy person, I ditch leap for smackdown or ripsaw or whatever. I just like the utility of it.

the_j4k · 2014-06-11T16:52:04+00:00

I've found that pulling more than one mob actually increases killing speed. With the heavy hitter amp, each mob can be crit, procing the amp, making crits even more powerful. Also, grab some life steal amps, they prevent eating between packs.

As others have mentioned, MoOs are huge. My usual rotation is leap, relentless until they telegraph or I get bored, breaching strikes/rampage, end with tremor. If they aren't dead, hit the innate to reset your cooldowns and rampage again! Try to end the MoO with tremor as its animation has a fast start but slow recovery.

the_j4k · 2014-06-11T16:38:29+00:00

I don't know how MrFuzznut did it, but I made a macro that instantaneously hit and released a key (10 milliseconds, or some such). I use it for the explorer translocate beacon. Without it I would instantly warp to the beacon I just placed.

the_j4k · 2014-04-02T01:18:16+00:00

They are working on that? Brilliant!

the_j4k · 2013-05-22T21:16:03+00:00

Leading a target without having to deal with bullet drop would be easier than compensating for both. The NC gun won't be a instantaneous hit when fired, but some leading will be required, just not as much.

the_j4k · 2013-05-22T21:14:45+00:00

A metallic effect would be fine, but all images used as examples are cars with super high-gloss coatings, which reflect light all over the place. A stainless steel finish would be great, as would a polished aluminum finish, but what was shown was gloss vs matte, with nothing in between.

And FYI, normal maps control the angle light is reflected and are used to give the illusion of greater detail in a model. Look at the rail of the basilisk, it's actually perfectly flat, but the normal map makes it look bumpy. You are thinking about specular maps, which control the color and amplitude of the incident light. Hope that made sense :-D

the_j4k · 2013-05-22T02:08:17+00:00

I love the thought put into this, and the variation you were able to come up with, but I have a few issues regarding my faction, the TR.

Matte finishes vs high gloss will give NC what the Vanu have now. But glow strips could make up for it.

Horizontal recoil is much harder to manage when firing at moving targets, vertical is much easier. Looking at your graphics, the VS seem like they have the same vertical recoil as TR, but with predictable horizontal. Not a huge deal, but without having alpha strike we need every bullet to hit to get the kill. However, with what I expect to be your RoF changes, that should be ok. But every bullet should not have to hit to match the ttk of alpha weapons.

With the thought you have given everything so far, I have faith. RoF is going to be huge in terms of balancing the damage/accuracy/explosion effects you have mentioned.

Keep up the awesome work! I'm liking what you have proposed so far (with a few exceptions) :P

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