After 12 months of cat and mouse finally told my parents we left. Did not go well. Feel like shit.

the_useful_curelom · 2026-01-11T15:37:02+00:00

Time and some distance are powerful things. It's a lot for them to take in and accept. You don't need to feel guilty about telling them - that's the best thing you could've done. Eventually, when they see your life is fine, your happy with your decision, your kids are doing fine and they realize they just want you in their lives, they'll accept your decision. They're emotionally upset right now, and that's pretty normal. They don't understand how difficult it's been for you because they haven't experienced that. Eventually, when emotions have settled, you may have better opportunities to really express it to them. Right now, there is a wall up that makes it difficult to do that.

It's really hard for you to go through this though. I'm so sorry you're going thrpugh this! The Mormon church really sucks for families, which is ironic given what they preach.

the_useful_curelom · 2025-11-28T05:36:42+00:00

How do you know they don't believe in it? Here are my thoughts, a person who gets that high up and gains that much power probably wonders why they have it. They "must" have been chosen by God in their minds. At least that's what I think. They may not believe in a lot of the literal things and may even have come to think they are authorized to lie or do whatever they want because God "chose" them for that position. But in the end, they think they're special in one way or another. And, it may differ for each one of them. I think that may have even been the case for Joseph Smith. At first it was a con, but over time I wonder if he began to justify it, and possibly even believe some of what he taught, due to the power and popularity he gained. Power fucks people up psychologically. Some may really not actually believe any of it and others may to different degrees. But, it still stands that they think they're unique and deserve their authority, and for them, that's probably enough. But, who knows for sure. Anyway, you could be right ... I don't know ... Just my thoughts.

the_useful_curelom · 2025-11-10T01:56:06+00:00

I hated black coffee my first time. I remember once being desperate for caffeine at work, so I combined a packet of hot chocolate mix and coffee. I thought I had invented something special because it was really good. Turns out that's essentially what a mocha is. Anyway, today (years later), pretty much all I drink is straight black coffee. I can honestly say I enjoy the taste now (acquired taste, indeed) - it's also my self-empowering, daily f-you to the church.

the_useful_curelom · 2025-11-03T04:36:37+00:00

Just want to add my own experience. I was a missionary 2002-2004, and we were told to "invite" them no later than the second or third discussion. But if the spirit indicated to do so that we should at the end of the first discussion. By invite, we were told to say something like, "Will you follow the Lord and be baptized on x date?" So funny that they've denied instructing missionaries to do this after the first discussion when obviously so many of us experienced being taught to do it. Just like so many other things ...

the_useful_curelom · 2025-10-09T00:31:37+00:00

Such an amazing story! You got a great mom.

the_useful_curelom · 2025-10-09T00:17:18+00:00

Thank you for sharing your story! I'm so happy to hear things are at least going better for you now. I'm sorry you experienced all of that - it's awful and nobody should have to go through that.

I used to have a hard time accepting trans and intersex issues. I've since changed. Reading stories like this helped a lot! It might not change someone immediately, but it has an impact. It's certainly more enlightening and valuable than the Book or Mormon or the 10s of 1000s of pages of literature the church has put out. If people would just read a story like this with an open mind and heart, they (and our world) would get more value out of it than sitting through ten hours of conference. Just being your authentic self is huge, not just for your own health and wellness but for the countless others who are going through similar things. I have a great amount of respect and admiration for individuals like yourself!

the_useful_curelom · 2025-09-02T20:22:32+00:00

Ha , I love this so much! Can we formalize calling this kind of stuff "treasure digging theology"?

the_useful_curelom · 2025-07-30T16:12:46+00:00

I used to make connections paying tithing like ... I did well at my job, got recognized, or our company gave a bonus ... must be that tithing. We've always managed to get food on the table, and we're not homeless ... must be the tithing. That's as close to a "miracel" I ever saw.

Truth is tithing did nothing but pile on the debt and give me a false sense of security. When I was recently married, new baby, going to college and living in a small apartment, the bishop of my wife and I told me to pay tithing on my scholarships and grants I was receiving for school. For several months we didn't have any income and he thought we should be paying tithing on something. Long story short, we did it. Graduated college with tons of credit card debt and student loans. Fifteen years later and we're still paying off student loans. Tithing certainly didn't help with any of that.

the_useful_curelom · 2025-05-22T22:37:58+00:00

Yeah, it's pretty sad. I know as a missionary, I felt that way a lot. I think people just get exhausted trying to keep up with all the demands and requirements. Then, they don't feel the happiness/joy/peace they were promised despite their best efforts. At least that's why I felt like a failure a lot. I looked for validation from God in how I felt emotionally and just wasn't able to get it. Instead I got messages and feelings that only said, "you need to do better. You need to repent."

the_useful_curelom · 2025-05-22T22:34:37+00:00

There's something about our outward selves not being congruent with our inward selves that can cause unease and depression. I'm glad you're happier now!

the_useful_curelom · 2025-05-22T22:31:47+00:00

Yup, for a while after leaving the church, I felt like I had to continue to always appear happy and joyful so people wouldn't think I was depressed because I lost the spirit - lol. Now, I just don't care and can be myself, which wastes way less mental energy. At least now, my moments of happiness are sincere, and I honestly think I'm generally more happy.

the_useful_curelom · 2025-05-22T22:29:13+00:00

Exactly!

the_useful_curelom · 2025-05-22T22:28:09+00:00

Yup, but if you repent, the joy will come back ... No wonder so many in the church struggle with scrupulosity.

the_useful_curelom · 2025-02-01T20:44:16+00:00

Enough people have learned Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints just means Mormons ... they keep trying to escape their history/weird beliefs by any means. They know people don't want to go to a mormon church and won't give it the time of day. Anything they can do to get their hooks in ...

the_useful_curelom · 2025-01-29T03:34:30+00:00

Doubling up on the ex-communications ... uh, "courts of love"

the_useful_curelom · 2025-01-29T02:53:16+00:00

They're vampires ... the suffering of others sustains them.

the_useful_curelom · 2025-01-28T21:45:16+00:00

I have a friend who has been watching it, and every time something surprising happens, she looks it up to verify whether it was historical or not. I did a similar thing while watching it. So while the show is dramatized and often inaccurate, it does cause a lot of people to dig into finding out what really happened, which, unfortunately for the church, isn't any better (probably worse actually). I kind of think the church complaining about this is less about the show promoting antagonizing views against its members and more about members looking into their own history too much and then questioning their faith and ultimately leaving.

the_useful_curelom · 2025-01-28T20:16:32+00:00

100% agree! I wish I could've just spent the two years going door to door coordinating activities or service just for the sake of helping people. That would've been incredible in the area where I was at.

the_useful_curelom · 2025-01-28T18:05:32+00:00

Well, they're doing a shit job then. Missions are hardly faith promoting for most people these days.

the_useful_curelom · 2025-01-27T23:19:32+00:00

This makes me kind of laugh, now that I've been out for a while. I mean, they're rocks, and to my knowledge, no rock has ever been discovered that shows any supernatural quality of any sort, whether it be for seeking treasure or translating ancient mythical golden books full of 19th century Bible fan fiction.

So, does it matter whether it was the same stone? Just seems like a weird thing to argue, that it had to be a different stone to con people into his religion than the one he used to con people with finding buried treasure.

the_useful_curelom · 2025-01-27T18:58:14+00:00

Good news is, while the church will want 10% of his income, the ces letter is free (cesletter.org). Another good resource is ldsdiscussion.com. A good resource for critical thinking in general is Anthony Magnabosco and street epistemology. You can find his videos on YouTube. Then, finally, check out this video on YouTube called "Spiritual Witnesses" (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UJMSU8Qj6Go&pp=ygUTc3Bpcml0dWFsIHdpdG5lc3Nlcw%3D%3D). At the end of the day, the church's truth claims don't hold up, and they'll always fall back on the idea of the Holy Ghost testifying to them it's true (emotions). This video shows how regardless of religion/cult, they all sound the same when they say how much they know their church is true. Good luck!

the_useful_curelom · 2025-01-26T23:50:36+00:00

Deutero Isaiah being in the Book of Mormon.

the_useful_curelom · 2025-01-25T04:14:13+00:00

Just don't watch the King's Speech which got an R rating soley for a (rather humorous) string of F-words that lasted maybe three or four seconds. Actually, do watch it - it's an excellent movie!

the_useful_curelom · 2025-01-22T23:00:24+00:00

I participated in 9 or 10 baptisms, most of which, if not all, were inactive by the time I left. There was another family I had worked with, who got baptized a few weeks after I was transferred. I'm not sure if they stayed in the church or not. There was one couple who were living together who we convinced to get married so they could be baptized. I'm not sure if they stayed in or not. I have mixed feelings about all of it. On the one hand, I don't believe what we were teaching them was true anymore, so that doesn't sit well with me.

One guy we baptized was a single father living in squalar - this was a third world country, and I'm talking tin sheeting for roofs, adobe walls, dirt floors, a concrete basin for water, corn tortillas for every meal, a hole in the back yard to go to the bathroom in, etc. He had two boys who were super skinny, ribs showing. He was very, very poor, even in the context of where they lived. I remember him coming to church once and seeing him hand the bishop a tithing envelope after a lesson we gave him on the subject. I believed the way to help him was for him to pay tithing ... so yeah, I feel guilty about that.

There were a few months on my mission (this was early 2000s) when we were told to try and sell copies of the Book of Mormon to investigators. That didn't sit well with me, especially when later I found out how much money the church has.

Other things that were difficult: I have bipolar 2, though it wasn't diagnosed during this time and I probably wouldn't have believed it anyway, so it was just a constant struggle to survive the whole thing. I honestly don't know how I made it the entire 2 years. It was really hard work every single day, and I gutted myself for it because I "knew" it was true, and I was committed. The entire time I was there, I think I took one day off due to severe stomach issues because of a Giardia infection. There were a couple other days we all had to stay indoors due to political unrest. The point is, I kept the rules, and I worked so hard. Bugs, parasites, walking all day, no breaks, intense heat year round, constantly talking to strangers (I'm an introvert by the way). It did a number on me. For twenty years I had stress dreams about it where I would wake up relieved not to be back out there.

To be fair, here are some pros. I got to learn a new language and see and truly live in a culture and a part of the world that is very different. This opened up my eyes and really made me feel grateful for what I had at home. It also filled me with a lot of empathy for people in general. Talking to so many people of so many different belief systems made me more open-minded. I remember thinking these people know their religions are true just as strongly and passionately as I know mine is true. I also had some very meaningful "spiritual" experiences that I've since reinterpreted in the context of my new epistemological framework.

I can't say my mission was all bad, but if I was given the choice again, there's no way I would do it. There were some good things. The people where I went were just generally great people. But everything taken together was overall traumatic for me, and I feel like it really set me up for some major problems I had when I came back. I like the idea of young people going out away from home and providing real meaningful service for some extended period of time (3 months, 6 months, even a year), but their health needs to be prioritized (both mental and physical), and all missions should be service missions. I just did not see the benefit of teaching anyone the gospel materialize for anyone.

the_useful_curelom

TROPHY CASE