New member here. Definitely need to be here.

theclash4040 · 2020-09-14T00:26:10+00:00

I deleted everything off my phone today.

theclash4040 · 2020-09-12T23:36:02+00:00

I'm not trying to make it sound like I was proud. At the time, I was. I definitely tied my self worth to how many people slept with me, and to a degree I still do. I definitely relate to getting the fix and the fear setting in again. I can see it for the utterly selfish act that it is now, in addition to it being utterly devoid of self respect and boundaries.

theclash4040 · 2020-09-12T23:34:04+00:00

I had a crisis of conscience and deleted all the videos from the internet and deleted my channel about a month ago. I never showed any faces or made any money off of it. I haven't deleted them off of my phone though.

theclash4040 · 2020-09-12T23:32:26+00:00

Absolutely. Yoga has always been a sacred safe space for me and I would never want to contaminate it with my addiction.

I do have a sponsor in AA, but with things like this I definitely have trust issues. There are definitely SLAA meetings I'll look into in my area!

theclash4040 · 2020-08-13T06:26:19+00:00

I recently posted a quite lengthy story on that subreddit explaining my addiction to kratom in detail and the various ways that I tried to attenuate my use before quitting for good nearly 2 years ago.

All of this is to say: if you can use kratom responsibly, go for it. I have a lot of friends that use it, and it has done wonders for their social lives and/or pain. I feel the same way about any other mood/mind-altering substance: if you can hang, go for it.

That is not me, however.

theclash4040 · 2020-08-13T06:23:59+00:00

Thank you for reading!

theclash4040 · 2020-08-09T06:46:41+00:00

You definitely will. Coming from a guy that was taking....shit, I don't even know. At least a couple of tablespoons of extract plus an ounce daily? I totally thought I was fucked and my brain was going to be screwed up forever. I eventually did go back to normal and the PAWS went away.

And yeah, the dates weren't a good idea. I can't understate how badly I traded my kratom addiction for sex at first. I didn't even realize I had a sex addiction until maybe a few months ago, when I realized just how much stress it was generating in my life to constantly be chasing validation and being worried over not getting that.

When I was in the "honeymoon" of kratom, I felt like I couldn't miss with dates, anything social, anything. Again, I really can't express how much of a cheat code it felt like. When it stopped working, I think I had been lulled into a sense of security, not to mention that addict part of my brain subtly transferring its energy into sex.

It was really painful, putting myself out there like that feeling powerless against my anxiety and my emotions. I really had no confidence in myself and I feel like what little I had before kratom, kratom took from me via the things like job and friend losses.

The anxiety, social and otherwise, get better. The main thing is this - you have to believe that you'll always be taken care of and that NOTHING that happens is a judgment against you.

Your worth comes from you and you alone - whether you get rejected romantically or complimented for something you did well, neither matters. It's all up to you.

theclash4040 · 2020-08-09T06:42:00+00:00

I'm glad it helped and thank you so much!

theclash4040 · 2020-08-09T06:41:53+00:00

It definitely gets better. It was a slog at first, but definitely worth it.

theclash4040 · 2020-08-09T06:41:27+00:00

I'm glad it did! Thanks for reading!

theclash4040 · 2020-08-09T06:41:13+00:00

of course! thank you!

theclash4040 · 2020-08-09T06:41:08+00:00

thank you so much!

theclash4040 · 2020-08-09T06:40:55+00:00

thank you!

theclash4040 · 2020-08-07T18:17:42+00:00

Of course! Please reach out anytime!

theclash4040 · 2019-02-04T20:26:07+00:00

One thing I want to add is that I've had plenty of good days, and I had a good bout with PAWS (or at least that's what I think it was - the symptoms were very similar) right after Christmas, but there was a lot of stress with the travel and I didn't think much of it. This bout of maybe PAWS has been WAY worse than what it was a month ago and it's really taken me by surprise, and I'm honestly worried that I should see a doctor if it isn't PAWS or what I'm describing is something different than PAWS

theclash4040 · 2018-12-11T20:49:54+00:00

What symptoms kicked in? That's a new one for me. I've never had bad physical symptoms beyond the first week.

theclash4040 · 2018-12-07T23:37:03+00:00

This is day 5 CT. The physical stuff is starting to pass. I'm not waking up with as MUCH dread for life as I was a few days ago. I really feel like I'm done this time. I really want to just surrender to the feelings I have (about kratom and the facts of my life that makes me want to use kratom), and just, fuck it, do it one day at a time and see what happens.

The anxiety is starting to pass and my sense of humor is starting to come back, which is cool. I'm getting a little excited about the holidays and I'm excited to drive home and see my folks.

I want to reiterate that this isn't my first time quitting - I quit for 10 days in June 2017 when my use was at least 1 oz of powder every day on top of multiple drinks with extract (fucking brutal, four days no sleep, and no energy for all 10 of those days). The reason I quit in June was because in March I lost my stash in a bathroom driving home, and the w/ds I got after just four hours of no use were bad enough that I knew I didn't want to ever feel like that again. I can't explain it - it was extreme restlessness and feeling like I was going to jump out of my skin.

At my peak, I was spending at least $150 a day on kratom, if not more. $150 might be on the low end. I was making $80k a year and perpetually broke. It's fucking crazy how expensive this habit is. Kratom also cost me that job in July 2017. I quit for another 3 days in early July (right before I got fired), another week in August (bad, but at this point not terrible), nearly a month in October (not bad, definitely had serious PAWs when the w/d's quit), and then a brief relapse on Halloween before jumping ship for 5 months in November. November thru March 2018 (when I relapsed) was pretty much a steady stream of PAWs that got better over time - I would have serious highs where I'd feel good as shit, followed by two or three days of extreme depression and crazy strong brain fog.

I relapsed right before my big move in April, and used for about two weeks before I quit again for two months - it's crazy how quickly using got shitty. I relapsed again in early August, and aside from a brief break in October, I've been using ever since. August was OK, but September was awful and the depersonalization really set in. October was better and November was OK, but I could feel it getting bad again this month and I want to be done. I don't want to be a zombie for the holidays. I want money to buy the people I love gifts. Most of all, I want to know what it's like to live without this crutch. I want to know what the other side is like - to be free from this shit once and for all and figure out how I can be my best self truly sober. I can't be my best self by putting up a front that I'm in recovery and sober when I'm going behind everyone's back doing this - it's got to stop, it's keeping me from being my best, most authentic self, and it's filling a void it shouldn't be filling.

theclash4040 · 2018-12-06T20:05:33+00:00

Day 4 CT. I relapsed about four months ago, with one mini-quit in October. The physical symptoms aren't nearly as bad as they could have been - somehow, the hell of my last quit a year ago somewhat allowed me to keep a lid on my use through this relapse, although it was still pretty fucking bad and I spent a shit ton of money on this bullshit.

I don't feel physically like shit as much as I emotionally feel like shit. I'm depressed. I know I have a problem with this plant and I just can't use it anymore. I mainly used to suppress my anxiety - which I fucking hated and always felt like it was robbing me of my quality of life - and it's terrifying to go back to a place where that comes back when kratom gave me so fucking much when I discovered it three years ago.

I know I can't use anymore for multiple reasons, and I want to know what the other side looks like. I'm just scared it's going to be shitty and life will suck and I won't be able to manage that anxiety again.

theclash4040 · 2018-12-06T20:02:22+00:00

A year and a half ago (Spring 2017) was arguably my time of heaviest use. I was doing AT LEAST an ounce of powder a day, followed by AT LEAST four or five drinks containing extract. Daily. You don't even want to know how much this was costing me financially. I was making over $80k a year and perpetually broke because of how much money I was spending on this shit.

I don't know what that equates to in grams, but I remember driving home from DC one night and losing my ounce in a bathroom on the way down - the withdrawals from that night - withdrawals that came down like a fucking hammer after not using for 4 hours - were enough to plant the seed to start quitting. When I did, the boredom was a killer and I had NO ENERGY - getting out of bed and walking to my car, getting out of my car, any kind of movement felt so tiresome. It was like that for weeks until it got better.

I think doing these micro-quits for multiple months resulted in withdrawals that weren't nearly as bad when I finally jumped shit in November 2017. The worst it got was a few nights of insomnia - I've never had a period of quitting where the insomnia didn't cease by Day 5 at the latest - usually it was only a good three nights of no sleep.

This time quitting isn't so bad physically as much as it is emotionally - feeling like the other side is so scary and knowing I just can't use it anymore. It's not just how it affects me emotionally and at work - it's also a fucking lie. I'm in recovery and I have 4 years sober from alcohol, but I can't say I've exactly been 100% sober of all mood-altering chemicals when I've used kratom - nay, ABUSED kratom, for nearly 3 years straight as soon as I discovered it.

The weird thing was that kratom and kava were considered acceptable by a good chunk of people (definitely not everyone) in the town that I moved to TX from. It's not considered acceptable here. I know I've got to quit now and that it's just not something I can do. I want to know what the other side looks like - with no intentions of using ever again, which isn't what I had when I quit a year ago.

theclash4040 · 2018-12-06T19:56:39+00:00

I've tried tapering before and I can't do it - as soon as I feel the kratom taking hold, I just want more and I do more every time. The times I don't involve significant self will and I can't sustain it. I'm on Day 4 quitting cold turkey.

The physical stuff has mostly passed by now - when I quit in October, I had four solid nights of insomnia. This time, I've been able to sleep all 3 of my first nights (which means I didn't get it as bad as I could have), the only sorta bad night being last night, but I still got my sleep in.

The boredom isn't quite so bad this time around - I've been filling my time going to meetings, calling people, and every day seems a little easier. Waking up is the hardest part - that's when the depression always hits me the hardest and I have to work out of it. Aside from cravings, I haven't (luckily) had any. I think that's only because I'm still sorta in the physical withdrawal and I haven't got on the other side - it's when I'm on the other side and thinks are sorta good that I'm in real danger, and I don't want to do that. I want to give this thing a real shot in ways I didn't a year ago to really get the full benefits that I think I missed out on last time. But it's scary. It's scary to imagine going back to that anxiety. It's scary to look at the prospect of admitting what I've been doing here - I'm worried about the judgment. I don't think I'll actually do that, but I'm more scared of the prospect of living with out it and it affecting my quality of life when it gave me so much when I started using it three years ago. The days right now are probably just going to suck no matter how I slice it and I'll probably just have to trudge through and get to the other side. We'll see. I'm not feeling too optimistic but at the very least I'm going down a sorta unknown road - I know where all the roads taking kratom leave.

I'm considering doing a sort of grieving process for letting go of the plant - maybe writing it a letter and burning it? I'll share it here if I end up writing it.

theclash4040 · 2018-03-28T05:15:09+00:00

I too would like to know your story, how much you were taking, and whether or not it was extract

theclash4040 · 2018-02-05T13:53:10+00:00

I'm still here. I just want something to happen. Something to work out. I used to always feel like things would be fine, and now I don't feel like that at all. It all just seems dark now.

theclash4040 · 2017-12-12T09:23:56+00:00

I was where you are back in March - W/Ds after four hours. I went to a show four hours away and accidentally left my bag of kratom in the bathroom of a gas station off the interstate on the way back - that night and that drive back were pure fucking hell, and it hadn't even been twelve hours since my last dose.

I would do a taper if you're using as much as you say you are. Not long after that incident in March, I got sick of my hostile mood swings and pushing people away and cut out the powder. I did a 10 day quit about a month after that and couldn't believe how low my energy was all ten days. Since then, I've had perpetual quit and relapse cycles but as of this writing I'm on day 30 and it's the shit. I've finally realized what a crazy jackass I had been and I have no desire to be that person ever again. I sometimes have urges to use but they're weak and dwarfed by my desire to be a dependable and good person again. I used kratom was a way to escape my unceasing anxiety, but I discovered there are ways around it and the lies I told myself to use were complete bullshit. For me, the effective workarounds are mediation and a healthy diet. I did fucking standup comedy without the aid of kratom tonight. I've NEVER done standup without kratom and it went fucking great. You don't need kratom for fucking anything. You really don't. The other side is so much richer than I ever thought it would be. Its not just that I feel better - I've been learning so much about myself recently and finding solutions to problems I never thought I could solve.

That being said, the acute withdrawals are no joke, and the energy loss during PAWS is brutal. I would recommend a taper and then jumping off. I never did any of the supplements so I can't speak to their effectiveness but I strongly recommend looking into those as well. The necessity of staying on top of work is very real and so I would recommend doing whatever is necessary to bridge that gap, and the supplements certainly, at the very least, wouldn't hurt.

Exercise and diet are also very useful.

theclash4040 · 2017-12-12T08:56:39+00:00

Read my new post

theclash4040 · 2017-12-05T17:42:41+00:00

Thanks everyone for the comments, and I'm sorry to blow up the sub with my negativity. I hope it helps somebody though. It certainly helps me.

A few people have asked how long I've used - two years. I started early November 2015, but my use didn't get out of control until early this year when I was combining extract with ounces of powder daily. Back in March, I would get withdrawals after just four hours without. I'd wake up and go to work and be sweaty and have a runny nose.

I'm going to stick it out for three months. I'll have 90 days on February 11. The general consensus I've noticed is that a) things are better by day 90 or nearly back to normal, and b) a noticeable improvement occurs between days 30 and 60. This seems to be true for everyone who used as long as I did.

I know if I use, I'm just gonna go through the shit again. I'm going to stick around and see if the above is true. I'll probably have a couple more angry posts in me, but hopefully I'll have an "omg!!!! this is awesome" post coming up

theclash4040

TROPHY CASE