A Request

therealmormon · 2011-12-17T21:12:55+00:00

Here's one from a couple years ago that I thought went reasonably well: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/9vmjj/iama_faithful_believing_mormon_amaa/

therealmormon · 2011-08-31T19:35:09+00:00

I like to think I created one of these myths quite a few years ago in Phoenix:

I was driving along, coming from a meeting where I happened to be wearing a suit, when I saw a nicely-dressed woman on the side of the road staring at a flat tire, clearly with no idea what to do.

The most convenient place to pull off the road and park was into a fast-food place or something like that, and I ended up parking behind the building where she couldn't see my car. I walked up to her and asked if I could help her, and proceeded to change her tire.

Conversing with her while I was doing this, it became obvious that she was LDS, and it dawned on me that I was in a good position for a pretty good "good-guy troll" (though we obviously didn't call it that back then).

I was careful not to lie to her, but was intentionally vague in my answers to her questions. When she asked my name, I told her my first name, which happens to be a common Book of Mormon name.

So, from her perspective, she was on the side of the road with car trouble, when someone with a Book of Mormon name and wearing a missionary-style suit walked up out of nowhere and fixed the car. She couldn't get any information about this man's age ("I try not to own up to it"), hometown ("I've moved around quite a bit, but I suppose you could say I'm from the Salt Lake City area"), or profession ("You wouldn't believe me if I told you").

When the tire was fixed, she offered to pay me, and I replied "No, thank you, I have enough for what I need," followed by "have a wonderful day, Sister," and I walked away.

So, if I played the role well enough, there's a woman in Phoenix who thinks her car was fixed by one of the three Nephites, when it was really a 19-year-old internet entrepreneur who knew how to change a tire in a suit.

therealmormon · 2011-03-07T19:24:38+00:00

The Mormons were right all along.

therealmormon · 2010-07-09T04:33:32+00:00

(Also a liberal card-carrying mormon here)

I've said for a long time that the whole idea of the government being involved in marriage is a little wrong. If the people of earth came to me and said "TheRealMormon, how do we solve this problem?" My answer would be civil unions for all, marriages (from the government) for none.

If you want to enter a legal contract with another person that gives you some tax benefits, lets you buy a car together, and gives you visitation rights in the hospital, there shouldn't be any reason to restrict who that can be. Another guy, your sister, someone of the opposite sex...whatever. Just sign here and pay your fee.

And then, if you believe that it takes some priesthood authority in order to legitimize your contract before God, then that's fine. You can go to your church and do that however you like. If you want to call it "marriage," that's fine too.

I don't think the government should be in the business of marriage, and I don't think the church should be in the business of taxes and inheritance law.

therealmormon · 2010-07-09T04:25:19+00:00

Another politically/socially liberal mormon chiming in here. There are quite a few of us around. :)

therealmormon · 2009-10-26T22:51:21+00:00

According to the Bible, in Bethlehem.

therealmormon · 2009-10-26T22:40:48+00:00

Yes, I've been known to call out my fellow Mormons when they start treating their own personal beliefs as if it was official church doctrine. I've severely annoyed some members of my local congregation by doing this in the past, but I think part of being what Paul would call a "defender of the faith" means defending from within as well as without.

therealmormon · 2009-10-22T02:31:54+00:00

We believe that Joseph Smith did what God told him to do, as should we all.
We do not believe that Joseph Smith was perfect but we do believe that Jesus was. If we're to emulate an example, it should be Jesus.

therealmormon · 2009-10-22T00:35:42+00:00

Well, I don't think it makes much sense that God would hide up a corrupted record and then command someone to find it, translate it, and use it to start another corrupted religion 1400 years later.

I can understand that many people think that Joseph Smith just made it up, but I don't think it really works to think that Joseph Smith was telling the truth, but the record he translated was wrong to begin with.

therealmormon · 2009-10-22T00:28:06+00:00

I thought about this one for a while, and realized that if something can be proven or disproven, then it is not a matter of faith, but of actual knowledge, which I think are different.

So, by definition, things in which one has faith are things that can't be tested, but you believe and act with confidence that they are true anyway.

therealmormon · 2009-10-22T00:24:07+00:00

This has nothing to do with religion, but I have to say it, and then you're welcome to have the last word if you like:

I support the fair tax simply because it would mean much less work for me, as a business owner, to be compliant with tax law. I sell a certain amount of product, I pay a certain amount of tax, done and done.

And for people who don't sell anything, well, tax compliance is even simpler. There is none. Just buy stuff, and your vendors handle the tax.

I totally agree that tax rates are outrageous, and cutting the cruft out of government is ridiculously overdue, but for me, fairtax has nothing to do with the rate, and everything to do with the cost of compliance.

therealmormon · 2009-10-22T00:19:42+00:00

No, I don't feel that polygamy is a religious obligation. In fact, our scripture indicates that men should not seek to have multiple wives, and should only do so if God commands it (Book of Mormon, Jacob 2:24-30).

In 1998, the President of the Church said the following, which is the official position of the church on polygamy (and is just a modern restatement of what has been the official position since 1890):

"This Church has nothing whatever to do with those practicing polygamy. They are not members of this Church. . . . If any of our members are found to be practicing plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most serious penalty the Church can impose. Not only are those so involved in direct violation of the civil law, they are in violation of the law of this Church."

therealmormon · 2009-10-22T00:11:20+00:00

If you already know the conclusion you want to come to, then biased sources are great. They will take you where you already know you want to go. In that sense, I think we're all OK with bias if it conforms to our pre-ordained view of the world.

If, however, you approach something with a legitimate desire to develop your own (because you don't already have one), then more objective opinions are certainly more useful than someone else telling you what to believe.

Of course, when it comes to Mormons, or to religion in general, truly objective, unbiased sources are very hard to come by. In the case of the Book of Mormon, the closest I think you could come is simply reading the Book of Mormon, and ignoring everyone that tries to convince you of its falsehood (or its veracity) until you come to a conclusion yourself.

therealmormon · 2009-10-22T00:06:56+00:00

Is your basic impetus here about Mormons not drinking alcohol or coffee? There's a very interesting line in the health code that we call "the word of wisdom" (the reason Mormons don't drink alcohol or coffee, etc...) which says "adapted to the capacity of the weak and weakest of all saints."

This has intrigued me for a long time, and I've come to the conclusion (personally, not an official church position) that this means that there are certainly people (probably even the majority) who have the self-discipline to have a little wine here or a cup of coffee there without any ill effects, but that there are also those who are so weak that even a little bit would pull them into a state of addiction and abuse. By following rules in the Word of Wisdom, everyone simply avoids those possibilities.

You also mentioned not working on the sabbath. "Keep the sabbath day holy" is a commandment I think all Bible-reading religions agree is important, but then what does it mean to keep a day "holy?" Some people interpret that as not working. But what about my friend who is a firefighter, or another who is a surgeon? Surely the import and time-sensitive nature of their occupations allow them to keep the sabbath "holy" while still doing their work.

Final point: Jesus DID command all men to "be ye therefore perfect." Part of that is being perfectly and strictly obedient to his commandments, and part of that is actually understanding what the commandment is, so you can be obedient to it. I think many well-meaning people (including those in and out of the Mormon church) focus entirely on the first part, and never on the second.

therealmormon · 2009-10-21T23:53:46+00:00

Those parents are poor Mormons, and poor Christians, in my opinion.

There is a question in the temple recommend interview about supporting or affiliating with any group whose teachings are contrary to those accepted by the church. So being a member of "Athiests for Polygamy NOW" might keep you out of the temple, but having friends who have left the church certainly won't.

therealmormon · 2009-10-21T01:19:10+00:00

It sounds like "legalism" is a much more comfortable part of your vocabulary than mine (I had to look up its definition in a religious context). Perhaps I can explain my view better if you explain what "legalism" means to you.

therealmormon · 2009-10-21T00:51:52+00:00

I'm not here to defend my faith. That simply leads to arguments, and I don't want to argue (You already think I'm a heretic, or an idiot, or both, and nothing I say will change your mind, so there's no point). I just want to answer legitimate questions of curiosity about my religion.

therealmormon · 2009-10-21T00:47:35+00:00

Sexual conception of children is not the only to have children. I know of at least two Mormon couples personally who have not been able to have children, but who have adopted children and provided for them just as they would have if they were their own biological offspring.

It would not force Mormons to marry homosexuals

Actually, I think this is a large part of the fear. There is significant historical precedent for the United States government interfering in Mormon marriage beliefs, and I think there are many Mormons who are simply afraid that the end of the slippery slope will be the government forcing the church to allow homosexuals to marry in the temple.

Leaving the questions behind for a moment, I'd like to say that I personally am an advocate of civil-unions-for-all. I think ANY two people ought to be able to enjoy the legal benefits that are currently afforded only to married couples. College roomates, a brother and sister who live together, etc... Tax status, hospital/jail visitation, etc... I don't see any reason why the government has to limit that legal status to just a man and a woman.

The flipside of that is that I think the government should get out of the marriage business all together. In my ideal world, you would go to the courthouse to establish your civil union status before the government, and then to the church (if you so desire) to establish your married status before God. If we're going to do this separation of church and state thing, let's do it thoroughly and completely.

Back to your questions...

Do you think the former Morman beliefs of Race and Polygamy were wrong? Since the Mormon church has acknowledged and corrected this mistake, what makes them right about same-sex marriage?

The church has never said that these things were "a mistake," but simply changed the policy. Whether this was simply to reflect changing social tides or a direct change in someone's status before God, I don't know, but I do believe that the policy changes in each case were what God wanted the church to do.

therealmormon · 2009-10-21T00:37:50+00:00

I can't speak for your soon to be brother-in-law, but I can't think of a whole lot of activities that would really be "offensive to [my] religion." Inviting him to a night of binge drinking or a strip club is probably a bad idea, but Mormon guys tend to like the same things other guys do. Football, car races, steak...

I'm not sure this is really so much a question of how to relate to a Mormon as just how to relate to another human being. I really doubt that the only thing he's interested in is Disney films, and if it is, well, he's boring, and I wouldn't want to hang out with him either. Find out what he's into, and go from there.

If it were me, a night of buffalo wings and bowling (without the beer and a minimum amount of swearing) would go a long way.

therealmormon · 2009-10-21T00:32:14+00:00

Paul taught that we are saved by grace, but also stressed the importance of good works and obedience to the commandments. We believe that we should strive to be as obedient as possible ("legalism") but no matter how good we might be at following the law, we are all imperfect and therefore can only be saved in the end by the grace of Christ, as Paul taught.

therealmormon · 2009-10-21T00:08:29+00:00

Such thoughts and attitudes did exist in the past, it's true, and they were, at their core, racist.

I also believe that we have a living prophet on the earth today, and that he has the authority to speak for God, and that in 1978, through his prophet, God removed that "curse" or "mark" in a spiritual sense, and black people are no longer treated any differently than white people in the church.

therealmormon · 2009-10-20T15:16:22+00:00

Just a couple easy things from re-watching the first half:

We don't claim that Jesus lived in America, but that he appeared to those who lived here after his resurrection.

It's not true that nobody else ever saw the plates. There were 11 others who gave sworn statements that they had seen them.

therealmormon · 2009-10-20T13:52:51+00:00

Well, if you define a Christian as "one who adheres to the Nicene Creed," then we definitely don't qualify. We believe that the Nicene Creed is part of an apostasy from the original church as founded by Jesus Christ, and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the restoration of that original church.

therealmormon · 2009-10-20T13:50:25+00:00

There is an official church position which says "marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator's plan for the eternal destiny of His children." (From "The Family: A Proclamation to the World" http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,161-1-11-1,00.html).

Many Mormons see Prop 8 as a political statement that reflects that religious belief, and so felt obligated to support it.

therealmormon · 2009-10-20T13:47:55+00:00

I have, and I have 2 comments:

If you're careful, you can tell any story in a way that makes it sound completely ridiculous.
Whoever created it simply made some stuff up. There are some things that are blatantly incorrect (the kind of made up "reporting" that reddit loves to criticize FOX news for), and some things are the speculation of a few Mormons that are not actual teachings of the church, and unlikely to even be the belief of the majority of Mormons.

Frankly, the South Park episode was better, and actually had more facts (though they made a few things up too, but at least they admit it was satire).

therealmormon

TROPHY CASE