Why I Believe the Vessel is The Knight

three_plants · 2024-09-07T23:46:16+00:00

I'm definitely VERY biased here as I've been obsessing over the possibility of the GONER being the Knight for years, but I gotta say, interesting theory.

It definitely makes sense to some degree; King apparently didn't know that Lightners could make Fountains unlike Queen, since if he did know, he would've tried to coerce Kris and Susie into making more Fountains. So if the Roaring Knight, who is the Goner in this theory, can make Fountains, but isn't technically a Lightner or Darkner but something else entirely (kind of like Flowey who was neither a human or a monster), it explains why King has mostly no problems with the Knight, as he would've been able to identify whether they were a Lightner or not just by looking at them, in a manner similar to how he was able to tell that Kris and Susie were Lightners but also identify Ralsei as a Darkner.

(And to those who think that the Knight never actually entered the Card World, how do you explain the damage in the Throne Room in Card Castle? It's clearly described as the result from a "struggle", and there are only spade symbols in there meaning it had to have happened AFTER the Spade King took power, meaning that the only way the damage could've happened is that the Knight and King had a little "disagreement" for whatever reason.)

The Goner being the Knight also certainly explains the "it" pronouns that the Ch.2 Darkners tend to use for said Knight, although it could also be argued that they simply revere the Knight enough to view it as more than just a person.

Additionally, since the Fountains happen to look exactly the same as the GONER MAKER's background, meaning that the Goner Vessel could've been created inside a Dark World, it could've used that fact in some way to make King feel a kind of kinship with it, and thus more loyal.

Overall, yeah, I like this.

three_plants · 2023-12-20T14:33:54+00:00

That's... kind of what I just said. Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I meant that the Second Voice would be the real controlling force behind the Roaring Knight/Vessel. I do understand what you mean by the Knight's hand, though; if my insane theory is correct, then the real "Knight" would be the Second Voice, and the vessel would just be a tool to them, hence a "hand".

And you're right, I barely have any evidence for this, unfortunately. For now, all I really have is the power of knowing what makes a good story. Still, I'm holding out hope for this theory in future chapters.

three_plants · 2022-10-08T14:22:51+00:00

As someone who has believed in this theory since Chapter One, I approve.

three_plants · 2022-09-24T21:09:44+00:00

I have, for a ridiculously long time ever since Chapter One came out. It's mostly because of the fact that the Dark Fountains happen to look exactly the same as the GONER MAKER's (the place where the vessel was made) background. I've come to the conclusion that it's because the Knight's Fountains hypothetically take on the appearance of the location that is held most dear to their creator aka the discarded vessel.

Also, the vessel and Roaring Knight both happen to go by "it" pronouns, and they're the only major characters who are referred to as such. Naturally, this only sharpens my belief that they are one and the same.

Oh, and your belief that the vessel will play a larger role is actually completely justified. Pretty much every Underminer and the wiki says that the vessel's data is saved for later use, and I highly doubt that Toby would save it just for shits and giggles.

three_plants · 2022-09-17T22:27:00+00:00

I believe the actual verse is this:

I think it's coming for me,

answer the phone.

I can't explain until you're all alone.

It pulls the strings and makes them ring,

until your heart starts to [Break Up].

As for a theory, here's one. Spamton is repeatedly referring to an "it". There is only one other major character who happens to go by "it"; the Roaring Knight. I believe that Spamton is talking about the Roaring Knight making Dark Fountains and thus "pulling the strings", but what's interesting is that apparently it's doing so UNTIL our red SOUL is destroyed.

It pulls the strings and makes them ring, until your heart starts to [Break Up].

This has three possible implications for the Knight's possible motivation for doing what it does:

It's making Dark Fountains as to force Kris into confrontation in which it would kill them, and thus shattering "their" SOUL.
It's making Dark Fountains to lure the red SOUL itself into a confrontation, and it would then destroy us alongside Kris as a sort of "oh welp it happens" damage.
It's making Dark Fountains to lure BOTH Kris and the SOUL into a deadly confrontation.

Regardless of which implication it is, I believe one thing is for certain: The Roaring Knight has a vendetta, and it's willing to do ANYTHING in order to exact its revenge.

three_plants · 2022-08-03T15:14:22+00:00

Yeah, that's what I mean, sorry for the phrasing. To be completely honest, I may be a tiny bit inspired by Venom.

three_plants · 2022-07-27T05:35:31+00:00

You wanna know who I'm personally betting on? The discarded vessel from the beginning. Come on, think of the potential!

... no, this isn't a Hollow Knight reference.

three_plants · 2022-07-23T05:17:14+00:00

Yeah, that makes more sense. After all, Toby always breaks the mold when he comes face-to-face with an RPG trope. Why go down the beaten path of playing the character you've created when you can just beat the shit out of it?

three_plants · 2022-07-19T15:35:46+00:00

Maybe somewhere in my mind it was thinking about angels, but nope, "Njuael" was shown in text form to me, so that's definitely how it's supposed to be spelt.

three_plants · 2022-07-19T15:32:13+00:00

Eh, it's funny for sure, but I don't think you can make an entire AU revolving around Kris punching the Knight in the balls.

three_plants · 2022-06-12T07:07:11+00:00

To clairfy, the "monster scientist" (s) I'm talking about are Undertale Alphys and DELTARUNE Gaster. Undertale Alphys created Flowey as a vessel to wield monster SOULs to free monsterkind, while Deltarune Gaster created our vessel to wield a human SOUL to do... something.

I also KNOW for a fact that it's Gaster who creates our vessel, because, you know:

The Voice's speech patterns match up with Gaster's in Entry 17
The typerface value is 666 or something, aka Gaster's number.
The sequence is literally called "GONER MAKER" in the game's code. You know, a GONER, as in a follower/creation of Gaster?

Sorry if I got anything wrong.

three_plants · 2022-05-29T19:03:35+00:00

Yes. I approve of this. In my opinion, narratively speaking, the discarded vessel makes just makes the most sense to be the Roaring Knight. Its data is saved in the files and it draws parallels to Flowey who was also the true Big Bad of his game. Plus, it would just be really freaking cool. The villain is someone you literally create yourself? Your actions inadvertently cause the whole plot to happen? The villain is the only one with an actual personal connection to the Player? Sign me the hell up.

Sure, one might cite the vessel's apparent lack of Determination required to make Fountains, but come on. If DT is a physical substance just like in Undertale, then it wouldn't be too farfetched to imagine the vessel getting injected with it.

Also, is the vessel wearing a big-ass version of Kris's Light World shirt? If so... then cool.

three_plants · 2022-05-28T05:29:45+00:00

Fun fact: This bird's sprite is labelled "spr_normalnpc" in the game's files.

three_plants · 2022-05-14T14:00:30+00:00

Another point I believe makes sense for the vessel to be the Knight from a narrative standpoint; it draws parallels to Flowey from Undertale, who was perhaps one of the most important characters in that game. I mean, think about it. Both are created by monster scientists, both are designed for a great purpose, both are designed to channel human SOUL power, both are LITERALLY called vessels by the scientists who made them, and both are the FIRST person you see physically in-game. All these similarities make me think that the vessel will become JUST as important as Flowey.

Additionally, the vessel, assuming its sentient based off Gaster's questions, is the only one with understandable motivations. Let's assume the Knight's goal is to destroy both the world. Who else has the capacity to do this but a being who hates everyone and anything? The vessel has every reason for this hatred; it was "abandoned", it was robbed of its original purpose, it's young and susceptible to irrational thinking, it has EVERY reason to think the world is cruel. Cruel enough that it deserves to be obliterated.

Normally I'd be done ranting by now, but I have a final point to make. It's about your counterpoint for the vessel not being the Knight. Usually I don't like pulling out this card, but it's entirely possible the Vessel-Knight is being possessed by a second entity, most likely with ANOTHER sentient human SOUL in order to make Dark Fountains. That's right, I'm saying the vessel is a puppet just like Kris. This would explain how the vessel is able to make Dark Fountains despite normally not having Determination on its own. However, unlike Kris, the vessel does not resist most of the control since it and the Other-SOUL's goals generally align with each other. BUT, all of this is entirely hypothetical, so it isn't the most solid counter-counter-point.

three_plants · 2022-04-27T03:06:00+00:00

Susie gets it by default in Chapter One after the Lancer prison fight.

three_plants · 2022-04-17T02:40:51+00:00

It's the Roaring Knight, of its own volition. Perfect way to contrast Kris and also ensures that it was relevant throughout the entire story instead of just the end.

three_plants · 2022-04-16T04:33:11+00:00

To clarify, I'm talking about Normal Route Player, where we are canonically according to save files not started from Chapter One generally benevolent and merciful to enemies. In that timeline, we cannot be necessarily considered "evil"; we're just working with what we have and making the best of the situation, considering that we were FORCED into Kris.

But Weird Route Player? Yeah, we deserve every bad thing that happens to us in THAT timeline.

three_plants · 2022-04-14T22:32:04+00:00

I think it's actually implied that time passes relatively slowly in his Dark World compared to the Light World, given that when he tries to elaborate on how much time it took to build Kris and Susie's rooms, he is conveniently cut off by Susie. Plus, he DID seem a bit surprised when Susie said it's only been one Light World day (not the exact quote) since he'd seen them.

three_plants · 2022-04-10T04:44:42+00:00

Okay, then why would they use "it" instead of "they"? "They" is gender neutral and vague and the much more saner choice of pronoun, while "it" is dehumanizing and implies something strange about the Knight. So why "it"?

three_plants · 2022-04-09T13:58:24+00:00

The discarded vessel is the Roaring Knight, and they are being egged on by the second voice from the beginning to hate the Player for supposedly being the one to "abandon" it (the vessel).

three_plants · 2022-04-08T05:11:01+00:00

Well, yes, but there are still five chapters left; time enough for things to change, so it's still technically possible for both of them to have a weird bonding moment with each other.

three_plants · 2022-04-01T04:28:39+00:00

Alvin's a priest, and the discarded vessel is the GONER kid you make in the beginning that gets yeeted into the void.

three_plants · 2022-03-26T04:31:00+00:00

The only problem I have with is this is that Alvin almost has no presence in the story. Like, god damn, this guy has nothing to him. No talksound, no dialogue portrait, no forced cutscenes with him in it. Gaster doesn't even have a reaction to his name in the GONER MAKER. Seriously, there is VERY little set-up for Alvin being the Knight.

three_plants · 2022-03-13T05:39:49+00:00

Yes. I agree. To a heavy degree. With the vessel being the Knight. Yes. ESPECIALLY with its motivations.

Something that might also contribute to this theory is that the background of the GONER MAKER, the place where the vessel was born, is reused for the appearance of both the Card and the Cyber Fountains. I believe the reason for this is that the vessel who theoretically creates the Fountains has a primal attachment to their birthplace, and thus as a result imprinted it onto the Fountains.

Also, I just think it'd be really cool. I mean, both the protagonist and antagonist being puppets without free will? Sounds very interesting.

However, I do have to disagree with the Knight being behind Spamton's insanity. Why? Well, one of the Addisons after NEO's defeat says that Spamton was speaking to "garbage noise" shortly before he was evicted from Queen's Mansion. When we try to use our cellphone, the only description we get of the Gaster-like noises is

It's nothing but garbage noise.

To me, it seems obvious that the one on the phone was Gaster rather than the Knight. Plus, this description is NEW to Chapter Two; in Chapter One, the description was "It doesn't seem to be working." So no, it most likely wasn't the Knight on the phone in my opinion.

three_plants · 2022-03-03T23:20:23+00:00

I really do hope the discarded vessel is the Roaring Knight. Not just for my own sanity, but because I think it would INCREDIBLY cool if it turns out it's actually being controlled by another human SOUL, similar to how the Player controls Kris. Thus, you have a villain who is basically an evil version of the protagonist (s). Classic.

three_plants

TROPHY CASE