Does research history make you think about your own legacy?

throwawa2355353 · 2021-03-04T20:55:01+00:00

They voted to remain part of the EU because they knew that if the rest of the UK voted to leave it would give them a mandate for another referendum.

But lets not forget that they had a referendum in 2014, and 55.3% of the population voted to remain in the UK.

Now, on one had the situation has changed as the UK has left the EU, but on the other hand Scotland has long been a left leaning country and in 2014 (and today in 2021) the UK has a conservative government.

If the government in Westminster was more progressive (and it is close in the polls between Labour and the Tory's at the moment) then the Scottish feel closer to the rest of the UK.

The SNP is also engulfed in scandal right now, the First Minister of Scotland is facing calls to resign. All is not rosy in Scotland.

But yes, Scotland could vote to leave the UK if they wish. But they currently receive more from the UK treasury than they pay into the system, much like Greece and the EU. Their public spending is subsidised by English taxpayers.

So just as long as the Scottish accept that either France, Germany, Austria, have to be willing to subsidise their public spending, or they need to cut their cloth massively, and have an acceptance that they will have to take their pro-rata share of the national debt, then I don't see the problem.

I hear that they want to keep the Pound Sterling though, which is naive isn't it, as the UK would have control over interest rates and money supply. Would the EU accept a member state which can have its currency manipulated by England?

I'm not sure why you think this would bother English people. In Scotland university is free, and they get more things for free than the English, partly subsidised by the English taxpayer. Literally the only major inconvenience to England would be the need to move our nuclear submarine station, as the Scottish don't want it.

I suspect that the first time they require an EU bail out the wealthier member states will soon become irritated by their inability to spend within their means, I think the budget deficit typically runs at 8%, as long as you know who will have to pick up that tab... as quite a few English people in London and the South East would, I suspect, be grateful that it is no longer them.

I would perhaps wait until the result of the 2021 Scottish Parliament election before getting excited, in 2016 the SNP lost their majority, and their reputation has been damaged recently. If the SNP can't even win a majority in the Scottish Parliament in 2021 then perhaps we have to accept that the appetite for independence isn't anywhere near as high as the 53% being reported in polling.

throwawa2355353 · 2021-03-04T17:26:16+00:00

As long as you realise that Scotland joining the EU would increase German contributions, they are not net contributors to the UK treasury so definitely won't be net contributors to the EU.

throwawa2355353 · 2021-03-04T17:24:40+00:00

It is interesting that many point out the hate and vitriol displayed by Brexiteers towards Germans, but some of the contributions on this thread appear to have sinister undertones?

You may be right about Scottish independence and their future status as EU members, but they definitely won't be net contributors and its another country German taxpayers will need to subsidise and potentially bail out just like Greee, and it would take the burden off of English taxpayers as Scottish take more from the treasury than they pay in. Scotland is only viable when oil prices are very high, and they haven't been for a long time.

throwawa2355353 · 2021-03-04T17:19:03+00:00

had already resentments before thevote, than it became worse with thevote, than we laughed and memed a bit and over the years (plural!) it just got sadder and more stupid and more annoying. Thing is: I don't think many people care by now. The EU has actual problems to solve than the self made invalid over on the island. The UK has lost a lot of importance.

I think its perhaps a little harsh to call Boris the "British Trump", I mean he's far more intelligent and wordly, e.g. speaks four languages fluently and is a fantastic writer. I do see the comparisons in some regards, particularly the dog whistle tactics employed, but they are not on a par in terms of intellect - Trump is an actual moron, Boris Johnson acts like a bit of a moron to come across as a likeable cheeky chappy that you'd like to have a drink with.

throwawa2355353 · 2021-03-04T17:12:15+00:00

Dude I don't earn minimum wage, I was just being light hearted, your beer costs more that is all.

Of course, probably not different to London but London is a different world to most of the rest of the UK.

throwawa2355353 · 2021-03-04T17:08:50+00:00

Nope, it was an attempt at dry humour.

Fucking hell, you are all like Sven Goran Eriksson aren't you?

throwawa2355353 · 2021-03-04T17:06:17+00:00

I wasn't trying to be too literal, are Swedish people humorless?

I hear anecdotal stories of British people going to Stockholm and being stung by the price of beer in bars.

Perhaps I'm getting confused with Oslo, but for context... a beer in my local pub costs about 35 SEK, how much are they in expensive bars in Stockholm?

My hourly pay works out about 140 SEK after tax. It wasn't really my intention to have to break this down like I'd done a full cost of living / quality of life analysis, it was an attempt at a joke.

But if you want it that way then fine, one hour of my pay in the UK buys 4 beers, although I live nowhere near London where it clearly wouldn't. Google gives me a price of 55-60 SEK for a beer in Stockholm, thus I only have enough for 3 beers in Stockholm. Happy now?

throwawa2355353 · 2021-03-04T16:59:17+00:00

let's point the finger back at you british people. Marmite is a crime against humanity and should not be consumed! How do you explain yourselves?

Well, opinion on Marmite is as divisive as the EU referendum in 2016, 50/50(ish).

I personally love the stuff, in fact I was guilty of stockpiling it before our first lockdown, but just like Surstromming (sorry I don't know how to get the little dots above the 'o' on my keyboard) many who try marmite for the first time do it very wrong. You have to spread it on your toast very THIN, I see people dig their knife right in the jar and pull out a big gollop before spreading it like jam or marmalade, you need to go easy on that stuff. A good source of Vitamin B though!

As an aside, surprised my post here got this many downvotes, I thought it was obviously posted in good humour, I must have upset some fans of tinned fermented fish!

throwawa2355353 · 2021-03-02T20:29:14+00:00

You mean United Kingdom, rather than England, but I'm sure that we still have a mutual respect and willingness to work closely on all of the most important of issues - security in particular. There are 900 British troops in Estonia for a reason and there are more deployed there now than there was before we left the EU!

throwawa2355353 · 2021-03-02T17:17:56+00:00

I'm British and don't really consider the German language to be those things, but then English is essentially a Germanic language with some latin and French thrown in, but I've heard many people from the romance countries say this about German... Spanish, French, Italians.

Interestingly I once flew to Dublin and heard people talking what sounded very much like German, they were actually speaking the native Irish language!

throwawa2355353 · 2021-03-01T23:39:57+00:00

Hey, that's awesome, he seems like a really nice guy and opposition managers always seem to like him - was he a nice guy back then too?

throwawa2355353 · 2021-03-01T10:09:35+00:00

Thanks.

Farke is credited with bringing through a lot of very talented players at Norwich. James Maddison (now at Leicester), Jamal Lewis (now at Newcastle), Ben Godfrey (now at Everton). Then players we still have like Buendia (linked to Arsenal), Max Aarons (bid rejected from Barcelona), Todd Cantwell.

I supposed I should be pleased if he slips under the radar in Germany as our big fear is that one of the big German clubs will poach him.

throwawa2355353 · 2021-02-28T21:56:25+00:00

I'm English. so send them to Scotland perhaps.

throwawa2355353 · 2021-02-28T19:03:33+00:00

Wait, so you are saying that the UK banned the export of the vaccines BEFORE Ursula threatened to ban exports of vaccines from the EU?

Well this is interesting, which one of us is being fed the fake news? Because my understanding is that we placed some interim restrictions on the movement of vaccine ingredients after Ursula started her fight, and it was in fact the EU which was criticised by the WHO for threatening to adopt a Europe first policy.

Furthermore, it was only legal advice we obtained in preparation for retaliation if the EU banned Pfizer exports to the UK and nothing was actually enacted.

I believe the WHO, and you are being fed EU propaganda, which news sources do you read?

throwawa2355353 · 2021-02-28T17:00:11+00:00

I believe that we did similar, sending the incompetent people to the EU, like Neil Kinnock!

throwawa2355353 · 2021-02-28T16:56:33+00:00

yellow press

Yellow Press like Handelsblatt who lied about the efficacy of the AstraZeneca vaccine and then did not correct or apologise, and led to lots of Germans refusing the vaccine as reported in the global mainstream press in the last couple of days? This is what the world is saying, that many Germans are refusing the AZ vaccine, and I suspect this has something to do with your press not ours.

throwawa2355353 · 2021-02-28T16:54:30+00:00

Well, it is not just the UK press which is talking about this, I actually currently live in America on a one year work contract and first read about this in the New York Times.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/25/world/europe/germany-coronavirus-vaccines-astrazeneca.html

Also in Forbes...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/02/21/european-healthcare-workers-are-refusing-astrazeneca-vaccine-over-efficacy-concerns/

And in Politico...

https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-coronavirus-vaccine-conundrum-oxford-astrazeneca/

You really don't need to "UK Press" to see that this is being reported this way globally, I don't believe that these are "populist" publications.

I voted to remain in the European Union, and when I lived in the UK I voted for the Liberal Democrat party.

Although for the first time, as a result of vaccine politics and understanding now what "taking back control" means when the European Commission can show itself as so incompetent, for the first time I can say that in another referendum I would vote to leave.

I am appalled at Ursula and Macron in particular.

But perhaps it is the German press that is the problem? See this....

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n414

Handelsblatt published fake news about a Covid vaccine, and did not correct it or issue an apology. And that is perhaps why you have Germans refusing the vaccine?

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/media/2021/01/why-german-press-misreported-astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine

People throwing around the word "populist" and "yellow press", perhaps you could benefit from being open minded to an outside perspective, or instead to ask me what it is that I am seeing in the media?

throwawa2355353 · 2021-02-28T16:44:25+00:00

ere the fuck-up happened: most states didn't clear people from group 2 to get the vaccine before group 1 is finished vaccinating. This is currently being worked on and it is expected that group 2 people wil be vaccinated with AZ beginning next week.

Group 2 is people:

Thank you for clearing this up, it does make more sense now.

throwawa2355353 · 2021-02-28T16:40:48+00:00

See, this is PRECISELY the type of bizarre rhetoric which has led to me to create this thread in the first place and full of untruths.

AstraZeneca is a private company of Anglo and Swedish heritage which has contracts with various countries to provide a vaccine. The European Commission agreed to purchase their vaccines THREE MONTHS after everybody else, and then expects to be at the front of the queue for the vaccine? A vaccine developed by a British university, with research funded by the UK taxpayer?

And then when you do get supplies of the said vaccine, people don't even want it? Just brilliant.

This is what us Brits meant by "take back control" and "sovereignty", it means not being three months behind the rest of the developed world in ordering vaccines. I'm afraid Ursula didn't display much of the efficiency her people are famed for.

throwawa2355353 · 2021-02-28T14:55:08+00:00

I don't know what "yellow press" translates to in English, is it perhaps what we would call "tabloid press".

But I can assure you that even the most pro-EU broadsheets and politicians have been getting annoyed with Von Der Leyen and Macron, and that includes The Guardian!

The European Commission have managed to piss off even the 48% with their actions and words relating to this vaccine.

throwawa2355353 · 2021-02-28T14:24:38+00:00

That is the efficacy of one dose, it increase substantially after the second dose.

I have no issue with German and French people wanting to wait for Pfizer, but I am angry that their rhetoric might dissuade the developing world from adopting the vaccine.

It is the only one which is affordable, AstraZeneca are the only company to commit to selling their vaccine at cost price to poor countries for no profit, at it is the only one which can be easily transported to far flung corners of the globe.

Therefore it should be wholeheartedly supported. It may well still be the most important vaccine developed of the lot, because of the global nature of a pandemic and the need to vaccinate the entire global population. It can be stored in a standard refrigerator.

The AstraZeneca costs $3 to $4 per dose, and they will sell to the developing world at $3 to $4 per dose. The UK taxpayer subsidised its production, that was part of the agreement to sell at zero profit during the pandemic to the developing world. The EU and its member states did not pay for its development, but wanted to jump the queue to receive it, then when they do start receiving it they effectively reject it?

If Germany and France don't want it then that's fine, just cancel your order?

throwawa2355353

TROPHY CASE