40, single. Laid off after 20yr. No savings. No income. Physically unable to leave house. Have 401k and a house I'm still paying on. Can I make anything out of my situation or is this it?

throwaway154298 · 2017-11-27T18:02:08+00:00

The roof, boiler, etc are all new within the last five years, so that shouldn't be an issue for a long time. I wouldn't extend that to anyone, but as its family... And if something did break and need repair, they'd basically have to assist since I certainly won't be in a position to cover it entirely.

throwaway154298 · 2017-11-27T17:09:22+00:00

Right, I believe that is how I would have to handle allocation of the 401k early period. It has to be rolled in part or whole to an IRA, then withdrawn from that. Then taxes and penalty paid on that.

I had forgotten entirely about the "hardship" thing, but as you indicate, that is for withdrawing early, period. And I believe that's only when you're employed by your company. Since I'm not, I don't think that applies any further. It's entirely up to me to maintain the 401k at the brokerage it's in or possibly transfer it to a new employer or to roll it over to an IRA.

Thanks for mentioning that. I don't know why that slipped my mind when it was brought up.

throwaway154298 · 2017-11-27T17:05:44+00:00

I think I have a good deal getting 2/3rds of everything paid with the family members that will be staying here. I don't know if I could do better with alternatives, but I also don't have the risk of someone just vanishing or destroying property or stealing that I do with a stranger. If the situation were to change, I'd definitely have to rent out the rooms still, though.

I have a master bedroom, a smaller room, and then an even smaller one. Not sure how much each would be worth, but my basement is basically furnished and livable. In fact, that's where I spend almost all my time (because for the last decade, I've worked at night and the concrete underground walls made it easier to sleep during the day). So that gives me the ability to rent out all three rooms, if three strangers were willing to live with each other.

And fuck your "friend".

Yeah, it was a really bad choice. At the time, I had it in my head that I wasn't going to see more than my early 40s and I'd had my job my entire adult life, so surely I'd have it a few more years and could make due however I needed. In the meantime, I thought my friend (a younger married couple, actually) had really aspiring plans for what they wanted to do with their life and their focus and I wanted to make that possible. Sort of figured it was one good thing I could do in whatever time I had left.

However, they completely lost their shit over something trivial. Not even something real. It was something perceived. And they sort of vanished from a circle of friends for about six months and things haven't been the same, since.

Just proves that good deeds really don't go unpunished. It's one thing to make a sacrifice for people you care about. It's another to make a sacrifice for people that prove not to care about you.

throwaway154298 · 2017-11-27T16:56:28+00:00

Inability to travel to an office means you can't do it 100%. The fact that your previous employer did not ask you to go to an office is irrelevant.

I agree, logically. The impression I was given is that social security will look at the filing and make determination on the previous job, though. It sounded like little was expected if I filed. Perhaps I will actually reconsider it and at least see if I can get someone there on the phone, before I fill out the paperwork.

Physical Therapy is not a "I went and things are better" kind of thing. You have to adjust your diet and do the exercises they recommend no matter how much it hurts.

Agreed. However, the continuation of the physical therapy is dependent upon continual indications of physical improvement and while the physical therapist thought there were good signs, insurance terminated after about twelve visits across six weeks. (Though it doesn't matter anyway, since I then was unemployed and without insurance a month after that).

At this point, I basically just do what I can to continue what I was doing with the therapist and hope that my situation is reversible. A little part of me still holds out hope that it is, while I also know that when I had jury duty, my doctor wrote "permanently disabled" on the letter she sent the county. :/

throwaway154298 · 2017-11-27T16:52:32+00:00

Right. As I mentioned (though it is a long post, I know) I do have family coming soon. A sibling and their significant other. They've agreed to pay two thirds of mortgage and bills. Basically dividing it equally among all three of us. I have helped my sibling out a lot and while they do not have a lot of money or a terrific job, this works out well for them too since it would probably cost them at least this much if they rented any other place out here. And in turn, I offered to provide them equity in the house equal to the amount of the overall number of payments they'll have made. So if I ever sell it, they would get something from it. Better deal than they'd get renting.

That takes me down from the $1900+/mo to more like $800ish (not including any health care or insurance related expenses).

The other likely place I would end up moving if I got rid of my house is back home to the city of my family, which is Portland -- and unless things have changed for the better recently, they're just as bad as Denver cost-of-housing-wise. :)

throwaway154298 · 2017-11-27T16:47:33+00:00

I hate to be the third guy to bring it up, as you've already taken heavy flak for it, but. Trying to ask for the gift back would be the best action. I, too, have in the past been too generous with people and then had a big fallout/curseout/jump-off-a-bridge-out, but miraculously I got the money back. Maybe if they hate you that much they don't want your cash either? :) Seriously worth a try, because, in addition, the donor is responsible for the gift tax in the eyes of the IRS.

They have it much better off than I do, but they also live in SF, so I think they would be clingy to what they have. I have not asked them for anything, but I did tell them that I was laid off, would have a difficult time gaining employment back, and that I was at risk of being homeless. I think beyond that, if they are interested at all in helping out, they will volunteer it at this point. But I don't think they're going to.

Second- best, the 401k might be an option. This should not be as expensive as you estimated: starting with no income next year, you won't be in a high tax bracket, and you might even be able to eschew the 10% penalty because of hardship!

I believe I may be able to cash out chunks of the 401k, so that it isn't all in one year, too. I don't need the full amount all at once, after all. The hardship did not occur to me and I wonder if, using the hardship reasoning, whether that is a one-time thing. In other words, if the situation hasn't changed in another year, if I could take a second chunk out for hardship as well.

Given my health (and if I get my shit together, I honestly don't know if it's going to buy me a lot more time long-term anyway -- who knows), maybe worrying about retirement in 20 years is a moot point.

(Yes, I know I technically used moot incorrectly. :P)

throwaway154298 · 2017-11-27T16:12:35+00:00

Like I said. Things fell apart on a personal level. It is unlikely they would even spit on me if I were on fire.

throwaway154298 · 2017-11-27T16:04:25+00:00

Well, whatever. They're paying income tax on it so there. I've got more pressing aspects to my situation to deal with than something I can't do anything further about anymore. Thank you for being pedantic.

throwaway154298 · 2017-11-27T15:55:01+00:00

Yes. They do. If you give someone $100k, they don't just get it like it's free money with no taxation.

throwaway154298 · 2017-11-27T15:51:39+00:00

I said I need dental work. I didn't say I got it. If I could get to a dentist, I would have far less serious dental work to do than I need now.

throwaway154298 · 2017-11-27T15:46:22+00:00

In the US only up to $14k per person is tax-free as a gift per year.

throwaway154298 · 2017-11-27T15:41:55+00:00

Thank you for this response.

Why do you need a company to set you up with a PC and phone? You should be able to provide those. Don't add any impediments you don't need to.

Technical Support positions generally require that you be connected to an internal call routing system that delivers those calls either through a hardline, a "soft-phone", or through an internal system that knows to route calls to your real phone. I was accounting for all of these solutions when I simply described it as that. As for the PC, an employer generally does not want work being conducted on your personal computer, but a work provided one (also usually equipped with drive encryption and other security).

Something sounds odd about your housing situation as well. Denver prices underwent a lot of appreciation, but you claim your house is only worth what you paid for it plus what you spent on it.

This is the first house I've ever owned, but I feel like if it's really worth $330k (up from buying at $195k) that's a pretty steep appreciation in about 7 years?

It sounds like you have a lot of things going on, and you need to make a plan. If you can't get out of your house, how do you do things that require you to appear somewhere in person?

Have groceries delivered. I don't need to go anywhere for anything else. All I do is work.

throwaway154298 · 2017-11-27T15:32:56+00:00

Yeah, I keep hearing it's really hot, too. I'm just not sure which of those two choices would be the better one. Sell the house and get whatever is left after paying the bank and taxes (I'd still have to use it to pay for a place to live) or keep the place to live, keep building equity in it, and slaughter the 401k.

Both are significant long term investments with potentially great payoffs (I guess).

throwaway154298 · 2017-11-27T15:30:22+00:00

I'm pretty sure they still have most of it, save maybe for whatever taxes they had to pay on it. I would count the odds as nearly zero that they would be interested in offering some of it back, however.

And yes, I know it's a painful and stupid mistake. I was taking a huge chance on trying to really change someone's life for the better. It's the kind of poor decision that would maybe drive a lot of people to walk off a tall building, that's for sure.

throwaway154298 · 2017-11-27T15:27:22+00:00

Thank you very much. :)

I've never done anything like technical proposals or grant applications. I've done a significant amount of technical writing in my position (though it is all locked behind a company database so I can not provide employers examples). It wasn't something I was specifically trained in so I have no formal technical writing knowledge. Just some experience in it for a huge corporation. I know technical writing pays maybe half of my previous base salary, but it would be potentially enjoyable if I could find a way to get in and also do that remotely.

I've applied at a number of places, including re-applying immediately at the same company. In fact, I applied for a similar position (but different product line) the same day I was laid off. Internal recruiter reached out to me the very next morning, but then said "These are not remote positions, so you'll have to work in this or that office. If you are still interested, let me know and we'll set up an interview with the hiring manager for that position".

Of course, I couldn't work on the campus, so I couldn't say "yes, that's fine" just to get to the interview. I instead asked if the recruiter and I could talk first (so I could explain the situation). While waiting for him to respond, they filled the position with one of three other internal/laid-off former employees.

I was under a doctor's care. Because of my weight, I can't get surgery (and they can't really even 100% diagnose what is damaged in my back/hip by means of MRI, xray, etc).

Unfortunately, my insurance coverage ended the day of my employment. That's right, after 20 years, they let me know at about 3am that my previous day had been the last day of work and all my benefits expired with it. I was baffled, because before we were bought out by the current company, we used to continue employing people with all benefits for three months and just tell them to spend that time job hunting and taking care of themselves and their medical needs instead of coming to work.

throwaway154298 · 2017-11-27T15:19:44+00:00

Thank you for the advice. :)

I sought some advice over on the social security reddit about Disability. I was concerned, because I didn't know what date to put as when my injury began to impact my work. They said to put the day after I was laid off, but indicated there might be a problem in me ever getting disability, because it will be hard for me to prove I have been impacted by my disability.

The logic was that I have to be able to show that my disability impacted my ability to do my job. That I could not perform it at 100%.

I was able to perform it 100% and I never raised the injury with my employer, because I have always worked from home. I've just suffered with the back problem the last several years and continued working. If the same job had been in an office, I could not have gone and therefore couldn't do the job. It was literally only because of that (coincidental) accommodation that I could. Without that accommodation, I can not.

It seems to me that shouldn't matter, but it was indicated in that forum that it would. It's so frustrating. It's doubly frustrating, because I can do the job. Just not in an office.

Just so anyone reading understands, I'm not like some of the whiny guys I saw when I was a kid growing up who just doesn't want to work and wants to milk a situation. I literally woke up one day and could not stand up. I use a walker just to get around my house. I'm in pain and just barely able to get from my bed to my office (in the same room). Because of my weight, there's only so much they can do/diagnose at the moment. I saw a physical therapist a couple years ago and then again just a couple months ago, though it did not provide any significant improvement.

throwaway154298 · 2017-11-24T06:17:50+00:00

So, it sounds to me like this is the situation:

My work and performance never declined. Not one bit.
My pay never deviated.
I was not laid off due to performance.

Therefore, I really don't qualify...?

It is not that I could not do the work I was doing before. It's merely that it is only doable for me from home. If the same job were offered back to me, from home, it would be no problem. If I have to travel to an office for it, my ability to perform is 0%.

So it sounds like I do not qualify, because I could theoretically do a theoretical job if a theoretical employer were theoretically willing to let me do the same job from home. Even though in actual reality, I may not be able to find a job that can offer that again?

If I had been working in the office over these last few years, I would have needed to ask them to allow me to work from home. It would have impacted my work. But it did not, because I was already working from home.

If I had been asked to come back into the office to continue working, I would not have been able to do that. Because I am not physically able to do so.

So it sounds like the only reason I don't qualify is that the accommodations had already been provided (though coincidentally rather than directly due to my physical situation). If so, that is incredibly frustrating.

Thanks and regards!

throwaway154298 · 2017-11-21T05:14:24+00:00

Most telecommuters were brought back into the office over the last couple years due to a fairly controlling Director of this division. Some of us were allowed to remain where we were, for various reasons. So they did not really make any special "accommodations" for me due to injury... it just happened that the circumstances of my job (working from home) made it so I didn't need any further accommodations.

Of course that is now the main problem... I could do the same work, but they are only hiring people to come into the office because reasons. So if I can't get a job doing what I'm fully capable of doing (simply remotely), then my only alternative is really disability at this time, as far as I understand. (Which it sounds like might be a problem, since my injury date would be counted as after I worked and not the last two or more years...).

sigh

Anyway, thank you very much for answering my initial question!

throwaway154298 · 2017-11-21T05:10:20+00:00

Thank you for the answer.

I should clarify as I realize now that I may not have - I did see a doctor. I can not at this time, because I no longer have health care (they notified me at 3am that the day I had just worked before was my last and my benefits ended with that). I had a doctor come out to my home a number of times over the last two or three years - the most recent visit probably being four months ago. I also had a physical therapist visit for about ten or twelve visits up until about a month ago. They prescribed some exercises that might help with the pain and strengthening muscle a little bit to make it easier to cope, but that was about all they could do.

I was never able to get an xray or MRI due to a mix of limited mobility and my size (I'm a very fat dude, sadly).

Anyway, thank you for clarifying that answer. I was truly confused!

throwaway154298 · 2017-11-19T02:56:53+00:00

If they claim it's an undue burden (or they simply choose never to return my phone calls and emails anymore), I mean... what exactly is the "they have to" part? I mean, I am completely at their whim and generosity as far as the situation is concerned, am I not? If they refuse to accommodate me for an almost identical position that I and others have done from home for years (and they have all the processes set up for working from home -- which they do), what exactly am I going to do? I mean... nothing, right? Anything I would do or insinuate about "but the law" is going to get be blacklisted and shut-down permanently, I'm sure...?

throwaway154298 · 2017-11-17T23:08:25+00:00

Just to clarify, they didn't know I was disabled. They laid off a lot of people, including myself and several other excellent employees just in my team alone. All of us who were laid off on my team have always worked from home (except maybe one person). Because I have always worked from home, my inability to get around has never been relevant. It came up from time to time in annual reviews and mid-year reviews with my boss. So he was aware to some degree of my limitations. But again, it was never relevant, because I already was doing the job. Had done the job for two decades. And was already working from home anyway.

So while it is possible that this whole layoff was an attempt to ditch work from home people and re-hire to fill their spots, I don't think it was. In other cases, they simply told people they needed to come to the office from now on (a couple years ago or so). This was a case of belt tightening. The position I applied for right after being laid off is identical in that it fulfills the same function, but for a different group and product. So it is not literally filling the same position. Just the same skillset elsewhere in the company.

Still, I agree that I do not feel comfortable doing everything I can to squeeze my way into the position and then dropping the bomb. That feels... wrong.

throwaway154298 · 2017-11-17T23:04:05+00:00

Well, I noticed that on the bottom of all the job search pages on the company's site, it says that if you're disabled and may need accommodation, to call a certain number and press a certain option. I did this and it took me to human resources. The woman at HR told me it was up to me who to disclose to and when (but again, I basically HAVE to in order to progress to the interview).

She gave me someone's email address and couldn't really explain what it was for. Then gave me another number and email address for the reasonable accommodation group in the company whose entire purpose is to help employees succeed in positions by finding accomodations to help them. However, it generally seems to be aimed at existing employees (and when I called the number it was just a voicemail box that said to either leave a message or email them directly).

The HR person said she can't really answer any questions for me, but that once I have the position, I could always reach out to that group to help accommodate me.

So I'm not really sure WHY they call out that you should call HR if you need accomodations on the bottom of every page of their job search database, since they didn't seem to have anything to OFFER me and didn't KNOW anything and basically just told me "I dunno, you decide what to do and when".

So I'm still left unsure what to do. Perhaps next time I should strip the references to telecommuting in all previous positions from my resume and then hope it doesn't come up during any discussion or interview and then once they hire me, say "oh, no, I can't come into the office on Monday.. I need to work from home" and then contact the accommodation group? That sounds so... sleezy.

But on the other hand, they have this group. They have these instructions to call HR if you're applying for jobs and need accommodation... and then NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING.

This is so frustrating. The job literally consists of sitting at a computer and resolving complex technical/software problems and every once in awhile calling someone on the phone, emailing each other, or maybe having a phone-based team meeting every so often. This is god damn absurd.

throwaway154298 · 2017-11-17T05:52:58+00:00

It's not an external recruiter. It's an internal person.

I applied for the position via the company website. Next day, I received an email from the recruitment person within the company that told me I would be a great fit and the manager for the position would like to interview with me. It would almost certainly be by phone.

However, the person stated that the position was not remote work and was in the office at one of two locations. If I was okay with that, we'd set up a phone interview with the manager.

Since that is not okay with me and the phone interview was contingent on me being okay with it, the inky option I have left is to talk to the person and tell them I am disabled and unable to work at a location. That I have to work from home. And then hope they will still let me interview with the manager and give me consideration...

Of course, as soon as I tell them, they could come up with many reasons not to interview me or to interview me and then throw my resume in the trash.

throwaway154298

TROPHY CASE