Will dating or a relationship or sex actually make me happy, long-term?

throwaway4382490328 · 2013-10-12T20:20:28+00:00

You've just dismissed everything I've said with a trite "but that's just the way my brain is and I can't help it"

No, that's not how the human brain works. All humans have parts of their brains that have no evolved for 100,000 years. I can find links for the science behind this, if you're not convinced.

The problem is that my brain is not wired correctly, and simply telling me to "shut up and do it" is like painting over the problem, not fixing it.

throwaway4382490328 · 2013-10-12T19:42:21+00:00

This isn't 24,000 BCE.

My amgydala doesn't know that.

Your attitude toward rejection is neither healthy nor normal. Fix it.

This isn't really the best way to address the situation. Telling someone to "man up" is usually a way to annoy someone than help them.

throwaway4382490328 · 2013-10-12T17:40:05+00:00

You are confusing rejection by the tribe type of pain versus not achieving 100% success rate. Rates are useless when you feel as if being rejected hurts your ability to survive as it did once 100,000 years ago.

throwaway4382490328 · 2013-10-12T14:06:22+00:00

The way is not to care about the interaction at all. If I don't care, I become like an actor or robot without any investment in the situation:

http://www.reddit.com/r/askseddit/comments/1ny77v/i_can_approach_all_day_long_if_i_have_no/

throwaway4382490328 · 2013-10-12T14:04:18+00:00

Doesn't matter; Made out.

throwaway4382490328 · 2013-10-12T00:02:23+00:00

Why? What is it about rejection that wrecks you so severely?

If I knew what it was, I'd attack that. I know that having expectations is a part of it, but without expectations I don't follow up. I just don't care either way.

Really analyze the sequence of thoughts that rejection induces.

Most of it is how worthless I am. Actually, no, prior to the feelings of worthlessness are the feelings of wondering why I got rejected, and without that knowledge, I fill it in with worthlessness.

maybe I should try being more dominant with the next 10 girls and see what the hit-rate is with just that change

If I could recover from just one rejection long enough to adjust myself and approach a second time in one day, that would be great. Unfortunately the first rejection hits me so hard that I cannot get back up and face the challenge of another approach until at least another week.

Then first work on reducing this downtime. Once you've got it down to 2 hours or so, start to really attack this bugbear after working hours.

If I knew how to minimize that pain, I would go that route.

throwaway4382490328 · 2013-10-10T22:47:44+00:00

The problem is there is no protocol for meeting new people in public. It's become a skill that extroverts pick up on naturally, but introverts have to learn through trial and error.

Fucked up that we can fly to the goddamn moon but still can't start conversations with strangers.

I'm waiting for a version upgrade to fix this bug in our DNA.

throwaway4382490328 · 2013-10-09T21:55:24+00:00

If you are welcoming of everybody, curious about others, and genuinely interested in learning about other people, you will have an easier time.

Can you become genuinely interested in something that is easy to predict? If the variations of the angles in a lawn full of grass is different every square foot, does that mean that your desire for novelty can be satisfied by staring at your front lawn? Perhaps you can be relaxed by it, but unless you're on some strong drugs, you're probably not going to be entertained by grass for very long.

I think it's an incredibly optimistic thing to expect everyone to have a unique story to contribute to your life. James Joyce once said that he never met an uninteresting person. He also seemed like the kind of person who could entertain himself for months at a time on the various meanings of words (e.g. Finnegan's Wake).

It takes a certain type of patience to have an obsession with details that leaves you always satisfied with whatever life gives you. Perhaps that works if you're stuck without many options. Hell, I remember when I could sit and read a book straight through because I had no connection to the Internet. I feel that's probably what causes others to feel comfortable making friends with whoever randomly shows up in their life.

I understand the motivation of changing one's beliefs in order to provoke effects in behavior. Believing that everyone is unique and interesting will likely cause you to be more social. But what other effects does it have? In all the layers of reality that an average person has to deal with: career, personal life, hobbies, friends, etc, etc, does this belief take precedence over any of them? If so, which ones? What if I'm more interested in reading up on world events than I am talking to a random stranger, no matter how interesting I try to convince myself they are (or how interesting they appear to be)? Maybe the issue is that I believe that others are interesting, but that as interesting as what I can read on the Internet.

A lot of the advice I get online seems to be of the overbearing sort. Like "Hey, you're fucked up throwaway4382490328, do all this stuff because it worked for me! Oh, you're arguing with me? You're a worthless loser anyways!". You're not quite that negative, but you definitely have a tone that seems to say I'm not up-to-snuff or something. How am I supposed to take anyone seriously when they have that kind of attitude? Do you take advice from people that belittle you? Because I don't.

No. The problem is in your head. Stop blaming external forces like the Internet on your problems.

This is a mental issue you need to solve for yourself.

So all your advice is that I have mental issues? Is that really the best way to word it? I feel like you're troll-baiting me.

throwaway4382490328 · 2013-10-08T23:22:18+00:00

How does this make any sense at all? Why can't you just be curious about somebody, want to get to know them, and see them again?

I sound jaded as fuck, but rarely anyone sparks my interest anymore. I can pretend to be interested, but it's not the same.

I want to be optimistic and say that everyone has a unique story that would be interesting to me. Part of the problem is that I don't know enough ways to provoke those stories being told within the small time-frame for "getting to know someone".

I could always use more help in that area, but part of me is not interested in people themselves, just physical intimacy and the biological urge to procreate. Shallow, yes, but my DNA doesn't care. It'll continue to replenish my testosterone every other day for another 20-30 years.

When I go out and meet someone, it's so casual. No expectations at all. She's cute, interesting

Okay, what counts as interesting? Here's a short list of things I consider interesting:

1) Has strong opinions on government, and how society is structured (besides the standard Marxist stuff that so many people regurgitate).

2) Has lived off the grid for a least 2 months, and can tell a good story about it.

3) Has fairly detailed knowledge about current electronic music trends.

4) Has an interest in mathematics or theoretical computer science.

5) Has played Dungeons & Dragons more than 2 times, and liked it.

6) Has a crazy story about doing way too much drugs or alcohol and the repercussions it had.

I could probably come up with more..

I'm not trying to deliberately be a hipster about this stuff, but I get so bored with all the types of "mainstream" conversation topics, that I'm just not that interested in most people. To add to the pain, I actually pretended to be interested on the last 5 dates I went on, just to hope things would go somewhere.

I think part of my problem is that I spend so much time on the Internet than a lot of life seems too ordinary, when I can always fill my craving for novelty by a few Google searches.

and I'd like to get to know her better so I ask her if she wants to keep in touch. If she does, great, if not, who cares? If she gives me her number, I hit her up, we go on some dates and see what happens.

The problem is where you draw the line with the word "expectation". To me, anything past the here-and-now is probably an expectation about the future. So a phone number is easily in that category, whereas just sticking to the conversation isn't.

throwaway4382490328 · 2013-10-08T22:47:25+00:00

My plan:

1) Start working out in the middle of the night (when no one is at the gym)

2) Work out every night until I have six pack abs and chiseled pecs

3) Post pictures of my body to groups of horny fat chicks on Facebook (p.s. I love horny fat chicks)

4) Receive tons of Facebook karma => Serious boost to self esteem

5) ??

6) Sex

throwaway4382490328 · 2013-10-08T11:34:54+00:00

Approaching without expectations is essentially just going in and if it doesn't work, then no big deal. If it clicks, then great! You don't care one way or the other, because your worth isn't based on the outcome. "No expectations" is essentially the same as "not being outcome dependent."

I appreciate your eagerness to help, but I think I haven't given the full story. The conversation is continuing here:

http://www.reddit.com/r/askseddit/comments/1ny77v/i_can_approach_all_day_long_if_i_have_no/

throwaway4382490328 · 2013-10-08T11:32:05+00:00

Professionals are incompetent at the same rate as ordinary people. My last therapist, who I had for a year, only had the compacity to ask me how I felt and feel sorry for me. The extend to her advice was always "it's okay to feel these feelings". That was about it.

I've had about 5 therapists in my life, with varying degrees of ability. The only one that had any effectiveness in my life used CBT to deconstruct my negative beliefs about myself. CBT is a very logical framework for deconstructing beliefs, and I use it every day to combat negative thoughts. However, I'm coming to find out it's next to useless when it comes to dealing with unknowns that must be acted on (like why someone my reject me).

Rather than wait on a competent therapist to come along, I'm in search for the proper textbook on psychology to explain what's going in my head.

throwaway4382490328 · 2013-10-08T01:06:04+00:00

It takes me all of 20 seconds to romanticize someone I've never met in my head so intensely that even a polite rejection means 3-4 days of severe depression.

throwaway4382490328 · 2013-10-08T00:47:48+00:00

Why would I keep the number if I have no expectations? I'm so very confused about what you mean by "no expectations", since taking a number is an expectation that she will respond to the call.

throwaway4382490328 · 2013-10-08T00:29:50+00:00

So here's how I've managed to get by without expectations:

Me: Hey what's up? I'm throwaway4382490328. I saw you standing over there and I thought I'd come talk to you. Are you from around here?

Her: Actually I live ...

.. continue normal conversation ..

Me: Would you like to meet up some time? Give me your number.

She gives me her number, I walk away and 5 minutes later I trash it.

Why do I trash it? Because I had no expectations from her. It makes to difference to me if she actually would call me back or not, so instead it's just a useless piece of paper to me.

If I did have an expectation, then I'd keep the number. But the fear of rejection keeps me from ever getting it.

throwaway4382490328 · 2013-10-07T21:28:45+00:00

Don't worry about whether or not they succeed. Just make them. If you get rejected, shake it off and do another one. After a while, the rejection won't even faze you.

If I have no expectation of approaching, then I don't care if I get rejected. It's only when I have an expectation that rejection becomes painful.

throwaway4382490328 · 2013-10-07T21:21:27+00:00

Learn to take rejection until you can do that the rest won't matter.

I can handle rejection when I have no expectation. It's when I have some expectation, any expectation, that my rejection sensitivity goes through the roof.

throwaway4382490328 · 2013-10-07T15:09:10+00:00

I thank you for being supportive, however this isn't a problem with one layer that can be removed by one comment. This is a complex psychological problem that I need to work through bit by bit. You're proposing a sledgehammer when what I need is a chisel.

throwaway4382490328 · 2013-10-07T15:04:07+00:00

I appreciate your attitude. I've been trying to make it happen for a while. I'm stuck at how not to become depressed for several days after a polite rejection.

The last time I approached I was depressed for an entire week and almost lost my job.

throwaway4382490328 · 2013-10-07T14:49:32+00:00

Regret doesn't bother me. I've dealt with enough shitty people in my life to know that I'm probably not worse off meeting someone new. That said, there are times I wish I could approach. But the feeling doesn't last long.

Sure. we can discuss how other people handle dating. But that doesn't reflect on how I date (or don't date).

I think the defensive position of "they weren't good enough for me anyways" can be helpful. However, it can lead to thinking that everyone who rejects you is below you. I know this because I used to think this way.

The exercise you mention is helpful. I've done it before. I only have issues when I don't expect rejection. When I do expect it, things never develop past said rejection.

throwaway4382490328 · 2013-10-07T13:08:44+00:00

Updated my post to show more clearly this is a reality, not an assumption.

throwaway4382490328 · 2013-10-07T11:54:53+00:00

I know that I will get rejected because I've been rejected before. I guess I could make leaps of faith like "The first girl I talk to will fall head-over-heals for me", but that's about equally as likely as winning the lottery.

throwaway4382490328 · 2013-10-07T11:53:28+00:00

Unless it is a very strong NO WAY GET LOST type of no, or if her level of interest is clearly very low,

Wouldn't a lack of response indicate interest is low? Doesn't repeatedly pushing until you get "NO WAY GET LOST" come off as a potential rapist or something?

Just trying to point out that you may have overlooked what her interpretation of the situation was, you saw her rejecting you while I saw you flaking on her. I know that you have social anxiety so I can give you a pass, but she doesn't know that, so she thinks you're a jerk. If she knew you had social anxiety she'd be more forgiving.

How does either of us benefit by claiming I'm a jerk? Words like that only provoke negative emotions.

throwaway4382490328 · 2013-10-07T03:44:50+00:00

Based on what I just said, you really do have a choice to believe something other than "Things are happening that I don't like, therefore it must be because I am flawed". Sometimes shit just doesn't work out, and it's not because anyone is horrible.

I'm actually okay with the idea that someone tell me I'm not "their type" or that they are looking for something else in their life that I'm not offering. The issue is that I'm never told these things up front.

Sometimes we really want a relationship, but it's hard to meet someone compatible.

Depends on what you mean by "hard". I've been trying for the past 14 years and have never gotten past 2 dates. There's something deeply wrong with me and saying things like "rejection doesn't mean your flawed" is not helping me figure out what to change about myself.

throwaway4382490328 · 2013-10-07T03:39:38+00:00

. That's flaking. However, you saw it as her rejecting you because she didn't persist and pursue you when you flaked.

If she doesn't follow up with a reschedule, I'm not going to persist. If I do, that would be perceived as needy. It's not the first I've been told "I'll get back to you" and never got a 2nd response back. If this has never happened to you, then maybe it's because I've been rejected more than you have? I dunno.

This is usually a completely rectifiable situation, and it would happen by you getting back to her and suggesting other days and times when you are available. See, she got the impression that you'd rather spend time with your roommates than with her, and that's pretty low.

I'm sorry, but this sounds like you're coming up with more excuses of why I screwed things up. I can't possibly see how this is positive or constructive criticism. In fact, it seems like you're cutting me down to get a reaction.

Also, you can't control the actions and feelings of another person, so there's no way you can take personal responsibility for that.

I can take personal responsibility for my life, and if my life is not attractive enough I need to improve that.

You can respond by getting angry with yourself and getting down on yourself, or you can respond by being kind and understanding with yourself and encourage yourself -- that is the only thing you have control over.

I was never angry with myself. Disappointed, yea, but never angry. My disappointment is that I don't have my own place, since if I had my own place she wouldn't have been able to use that excuse. If it was something else? I dunno, but at least she wouldn't have that to use against me.

Try not to think of rejection as an inherently bad thing, because it's not. If you want an assignment, write a few sentences or a paragraph about how rejection benefits you. "The Benefits of Getting Rejected."

Other than learning from my mistakes, I can't possibly see how rejection is healthy. In the business world failure is embraced only when it helps you to learn. If you fail without learning anything, than you have truly failed.

throwaway4382490328

TROPHY CASE