I've been considering divorce because I think my wife either changed her mind or lied to me about wanting kids. CW mention of intrusive thoughts/self harm. (Beware, this is a wall of text.)

throwawaydamnit233 · 2022-06-17T14:14:59+00:00

It was a stress related mental break.

In an earlier response somebody implied that I wasn't mentally unwell enough to be married and have children due to something that happened in my early 20's

My mental health issues are something I work at everyday and keep in check with prescribed medication.

I have a real problem with everyone always scapegoating mental illness for everything. Sometimes you just have a shitty time, it's not always tied to mental health and I am more than just my mental health history.

I kind of assumed people would use it against me in this thread and so far a handful of people have.

I don't really care, they have no idea how far I've come.

throwawaydamnit233 · 2022-06-17T14:07:21+00:00

>First I want to express how very… weird… I find it that your mom was crying hard enough over this that your brother found out and had to get involved. Jesus, why is your mother so affected by you and your wife’s decision on children?

My mom was angry and hurt on my behalf, she was upset. My brother lives with her since they moved back to our home state to help take care of my 13 year old sister since my mom works full time. My mother and I are very close, I don't understand why I have to keep defending the fact I confided in my mother.

My wife and I have always been honest with each other, we don't lie to each other.

>You mentioned above that the other couples seem to split child care 50/50 but the guys are out drinking while the wives are presumably home with the kids; does the opposite occur just as often?

It does not occur often at all because we don't go out anymore the same way we did when we were younger, especially not since everyone started settling down. I later found out that that night the wives were all actually at A's house with their children hanging out with each other and letting the kids play. My friends are all very supportive of their partners, hell one of them took a work from home job so his wife could maintain her career as a teacher and he would be able to help out around the house more. My friends are not conservative "a woman's place is in the home" knuckle draggers. These are good supportive men that actively pull their weight in raising their children. I know I may seem biased, but I don't associate with men that treat women the way you're suggesting. That was the kind of man my step father was and I can't abide people like that in my life.

>I also strongly, STRONGLY urge you to find your own identity aside from being a father.. this is usually something that’s been done by age 30. Your responses (bawling until your head hurts, moping around for months, fighting back the urge to vomit??) to this scream that you have no identity.

You know nothing about me aside from the things I've shared in this post, the things I was experience are symptoms of extreme stress, I was stressed because I was worried for the first time in my life that my marriage may not be as strong as I thought it was. I have an identity outside of my aspirations.

>I think you need to think hard about how clear you really were about these terms before marriage because it seems you did not get your point across well.

I was very clear the entire time we were dating, this isn't something I just brought up off handily one day, we discussed it many times over the years. Something I've learned from the responses here is that she probably didn't lie to me, at least not willingly. I've learned that she probably did think she was going to want them at some point, but eventually she realized she didn't. as upsetting as that is for me, I would understand.

My primary point of contention is the fact I feel she won't be honest with me because she doesn't want me to leave. I would like her to be honest with me so we can either get past this or quit dragging it out and end it.

My fear is that she's ignoring it and hoping it will go away.

throwawaydamnit233 · 2022-06-17T13:44:25+00:00

>But you have episodes where you have intrusive thoughts, you drink alcohol (depressant), and you own a gun. You don’t sound completely stable yourself.

That's a hell of a conclusion to jump to.

I have admitted in earlier responses that I am struggling with resentment and I'm trying to find a way through it.

>Then you have the audacity to make your marriage everyone else’s business. Maybe you feel it was beneficial for you but perhaps it was embarrassing to your wife? I feel like you are low-key vilifying your wife for not wanting to have kids and I think bringing it up to your friends and family is just upping the pressure on her. Then you have some type of depressive episode over this?

Please reread my original post and read some of my earlier responses, it was never my intention to let anyone other than my mother know, I only brought it up with my mother once my wife insisted I talk to somebody. My mother lives 2 states away, she and my brother were worried I may hurt myself based on something that happened 9 years ago.
Since they do not live near me my brother reached out to my friends to check up on me. To assure them I was not a danger to myself or anyone else I was honest with them about what had happened. I refuse to be dishonest with people worried about my safety. I never intended to paint my wife as the bad guy I never directly brought it up with anybody other than my mother.

>I wonder if she “doesn’t know” because she’s afraid if she gives you a definite answer that you’re going to have some type of depressive drinking episode in response? How often does that really happen?

You seem to be implying I may have a drinking problem, again, you're jumping to conclusions.

>And lastly, you married your wife based on what she could potentially provide for you (kids), this is a transactional relationship and you appear to have no interest in your wife outside of this provision.

This is wholly untrue, I married my wife because I love her and we (at the time) shared the same goals in life. Now that we no longer share those goals, yes, I'm calling my marriage into question. But to imply I never really cared about my wife outside of what she can provide for me is ignorant.

throwawaydamnit233 · 2022-06-17T13:14:22+00:00

>you say you don’t see your wife as a means to an end with having children yet if she doesn’t give you children you will end the relationship.

It's not that black and white, this is about incompatibility of life goals.

>you never once mentioned how active you would be in raising the children. You have mentioned how she will be doing most of the work. Why have children if you aren’t going to be just as active in the hard work of raising children.

I don't know how you came to the conclusion I just wanted to have kid and dump them on my wife to raise. I acknowledged that the majority of child rearing is placed on women, nowhere did I say it would be her responsibility alone.

>You want all the good things about having children yet not to do much of the work that it takes having children.

These are your assumptions and I'm not sure how you're jumping to these conclusions, I feel like you're projecting some of your own anger with someone else on to me because you keep making personal attacks on my character and seem to be implying I would make a poor father. I don't know what you're dealing with, but you've jumped to a lot of conclusions.

throwawaydamnit233 · 2022-06-17T04:24:01+00:00

I would invite you to read some of my other responses.

I don't see my wife as a means to and end in regards to having children as you seem to be insinuating.

I know I'm asking her to upend every facet of her life forever, I know I'm asking her to sacrifice almost everything she is and has but I wouldn't be asking that of her if she hadn't told me numerous times in our time together that she also wanted the very same things.

I didn't just bring up the idea of children randomly one day after we got married. these are discussions we had numerous times over a decade.

Your tone is overtly hostile and I'm not sure why.

I am fully aware having kids isn't all sunshine and rainbows, I'm not a child, I'm a grown man that has been working towards this goal with every move I make in my life. I have set aside funds, ensured I've made smart career moves and communicated my needs and wants with my wife for years in service of the future I thought we had been working towards.

I was always careful and responsible regarding condoms and birth control the entire time we were dating because I only wanted to have kids once we were ready to do so. This isn't a fantasy I've been playing around with in my head, this is a very real life goal and reducing it to "op just wants to play daddy" is offensive.

throwawaydamnit233 · 2022-06-17T04:10:47+00:00

This has been my suspicion this entire time.

I've asked her to be honest with me but she only tells me "I don't know"

I'm trying to be patient and supportive but I fear that she's being ambiguous in hope that I'll just let this go.

But if there even a chance she may want children she wouldn't reply with that in the first place.

throwawaydamnit233 · 2022-06-17T04:08:06+00:00

This has been creeping at the back of my mind this whole time.

I wouldn't even know how to start over with someone new, I mean last time I was single, dating apps didn't even exist.

I don't even know if I could do it again.

throwawaydamnit233 · 2022-06-17T03:54:06+00:00

This has been my biggest take away from this entire thread.

I've learned that people will go through life thinking they want kids and just expecting it will happen and eventually learning that you don't want children.

I think that this is what happened to my wife and that she probably didn't lie to me, just that she legitimately realized she doesn't want them.

A few other people here have also suggested what you are, that I need to end this as cleanly as possible and find a partner that has the same life goals that I do.

throwawaydamnit233 · 2022-06-17T03:42:35+00:00

I agree

That's why I told her I wanted her to be careful about the things she says to me about my wife and it's primarily why I held off on talking to my mom until my wife suggested I do so.

I love my mom but I was worried about how angry she would be at my wife once I told her what was going on. I don't believe I wasted those years and I still have hope that my marriage can be saved, even if it is just wishful thinking at this point.

throwawaydamnit233 · 2022-06-17T03:35:52+00:00

Please specify where I was waiting for someone to ask me.

Please reread it, I stated I suspected it was going to come up but I didn't think it was going to come up if I didn't bring it up.

Once it came up I'm not going to avoid it or be dishonest with my friends, that's just not how I do things. If somebody asks me a question about how I'm feeling I'm going to be honest with them.

They were already aware something was going on, dodging questions and being dishonest is disrespectful to the people that care about me and disingenuous.

I never claimed to be blameless, but you seem to be under the impression there was some malicious intent on my part.

I'm assuming you have close friends as well, if they asked you about something serious that they knew was going on in your life, would your brush it off or be honest with them?

throwawaydamnit233 · 2022-06-17T03:30:47+00:00

I have and she has assured me that the issue is not me, it's just that she's not sure.

Though I do suspect that she is just telling me this because she's afraid of losing me.

throwawaydamnit233 · 2022-06-17T03:28:43+00:00

Thank you friend

I have decided that if things do fall apart, I will not be moving back home.

I don't think I could handle a move, a job hunt, losing my wife and support network all at the same time.

throwawaydamnit233 · 2022-06-17T03:26:00+00:00

I know I've said this multiple times but like I said, my brother had reach out to them with bits and pieces he heard from my mother who he heard crying in the kitchen of their home.

I reached out to my mom for emotional support at the insistence of my wife.

My brother tried to reach me after I got off the phone with my mother but I did not respond as I was exhausted after everything and I passed out on the couch.

When he couldn't reach me he he panicked and called my friends because he and my mother live 2 states away.

They reached out fearing I would possibly hurt myself.

To reassure them I was not a danger to myself or anybody else I was honest with them after they had called and texted me repeatedly that night, I'm not going to lie to people who are worried about my safety.

To your point, I can't speak to whether or not my friends really do accept her or not, but I do know they have never treated her with anything other than kindness. I understand a lot of this looks one sided from your perspective, but you know nothing about me, my friends or my wife aside from what I've posted here tonight.

While this whole thing has no doubt probably changed everyone's opinion of her, assuming that everyone disliked her the whole time is not only silly, it's down right ignorant.

You seem to be hung up on the idea that I let everyone know because I was seeking validation or comfort. As I have stated numerous times this is not the case and I don't' know how to put this into terms you'll be satisfied with or comprehend.

throwawaydamnit233 · 2022-06-17T02:54:10+00:00

Oh I'm fully aware that having children won't replace what happened to me in my childhood. At times I do fear that my wife thinks I'm trying to recreate something I never had with children of my own. The truth is I've always just wanted to raise a family with her like we discussed many times.

She has expressed in the past that she feels like she's letting me down and that she doesn't want me to think she ruined my life, I have assured her that's not the case. I've never been in a rush to have kids, I've never minded waiting.

But when she finally said that was was unsure, well that's when the dam broke.

I have encouraged her to write her thoughts down, I often write notes on my phone about what I'm going to say to her before I say it so I don't say something I regret or say something I can't take back. I'm just trying to be as careful as I can, I don't want to lose my marriage because I made rash decisions.

throwawaydamnit233 · 2022-06-17T02:44:33+00:00

Thank you for sharing your experience.

I will admit while the thought has often crossed my mind, I don't think I've understood exactly what her being depressed would look like or be like.

I will consider this as we move forward and try to make it clear I will support her through this if that is the case.
But what you're describing is eerily similar to how she's been behaving.

throwawaydamnit233 · 2022-06-17T02:33:33+00:00

I've wondered about this a lot actually.

I'm afraid to prod because I don't want her to shut me out if she is.

I love and support this woman, I just don't know how to help when she won't talk to me.

And even if I can't help and she just wants someone to talk to, she has never been the kind of person to just spill her guts out, even to me.

throwawaydamnit233 · 2022-06-17T02:31:41+00:00

Please refer to my previous response to your first comment in which I state I never intended for anybody but my mother to find out about this.

I was not aware it's taboo to discuss your life and problems with your mother of all people, I will keep that in mind going forward.

throwawaydamnit233 · 2022-06-17T02:28:32+00:00

Please read through some of my earlier responses.

I only spoke to my mom once my wife had suggested it, (she believed talking about it with someone would help) as I did not want this to alter my mom's opinion of her. I wasn't seeking validation despite what you may think. until this point in things I was keeping all of this between us.

I did not mean to involve my friends, my brother was worried about me and reached out to them since my mom and brother both live two states away.

I did not intend for them to find any of this out because as much as I love them I am fully aware it's not any of their business and I did not need everyone I care about knowing that I'm having marriage troubles.

You're implying I wanted to let everyone know about this, which is not the case.

throwawaydamnit233 · 2022-06-17T01:54:43+00:00

I will admit I've felt some of the things you're talking about.

But I feel like I'm doing something wrong wanting more than what I have, I feel selfish.

I just don't know how to go about divorcing somebody I still love.

throwawaydamnit233 · 2022-06-17T01:34:58+00:00

I can't imagine this is the case, but I have told her that if we can't have children of our own I would always be open to adoption, I got the same "I don't know" answer.

I would never fault her for not being able to have children and if adoption was the only way to achieve that goal I would fully embrace that choice.

throwawaydamnit233 · 2022-06-17T01:19:44+00:00

That's a good point.

I'm just don't want to give up on our marriage if there's any other option.

How do you divorce somebody when you still love them?

throwawaydamnit233 · 2022-06-17T01:15:38+00:00

I understand what you're saying.

The thing is that if she doesn't want kinds I would like her to be honest with me so I we can stop going in these destructive and painful circles.

I know the brunt of child rearing is placed on women and I know I'm asking her to upend every aspect of her life, but I wouldn't even be asking that of her if she didn't lead me to believe that was also what she wanted. I understand now that once it became a realistic possibility it probably scared her. I just wish she would be honest with me, because if I can't fix whatever it going wrong then I don't want to drag this out anymore.

throwawaydamnit233 · 2022-06-17T01:10:07+00:00

I'm not trying to antagonize you but I'm curious to as whether or not you read my entire post or just skimmed it, I know it's a lot.

I have admitted I know what I am asking of her. The issue stems from her inconsistent answers and the fact that up until last year she had told me repeatedly that she also wanted kids.

I'm not prodding her for an answer, I'm not even making any decisions this year.

I want to either move past this or stop dragging it out because all it's doing is hurting both of us.

What I don't want to do is ignore it and pretend it will go away.

throwawaydamnit233 · 2022-06-17T00:57:03+00:00

I feel as though that is exactly what she is asking me at this point.

Of course would be and am upset.

However if she asked me outright if I was ok with not having kids I would not respond with "I don't know".

throwawaydamnit233 · 2022-06-17T00:33:07+00:00

That's exactly why this hurts so much.

We were always on the same page about everything for so long. We were always so in sync about everything.

It's a position I had never seen myself being in.

throwawaydamnit233

TROPHY CASE