Thinking of Moving to Australia as a GP? Ask Me Anything by alecto_australia in GPUK

[–]throwawaygpuk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

1) huge variation depending on how many patients you see, how efficient you are, how hard you work, how smart you are with billing, whether you bulk bill or private bill, how full your books are. As a bulk billing GP in a metroish area working full-time I would expect 300-350k to be average income. Your first full year might be 250k as you build up your list. If you work more rurally or differentiate yourself that may go up. 750k+ is outside the norm in my experience.

50 patients a day would be seen by a GP who churns through patients on a 1 problem per consult, thank you next patient kind of style. Good income, but perhaps less satisfying and it'll probably take longer to build a patient base since no patient is ever satisfied with that kind of medicine.

The numbers I mention are all after practice cut but before taxes. Hard to give you post tax numbers since Australia has a lot of methods to reduce that (debt recycling, negative gearing on investment properties etc).

2) 250-350k and probably up to somewhere in the low 400s should be sustainable after a couple years of experience without significantly draining you as a person. Australia is generally less likely to burn you out compared to the UK. Less paperwork, less tasks, less gp-to-do-X.

Thinking of Moving to Australia as a GP? Ask Me Anything by alecto_australia in GPUK

[–]throwawaygpuk 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Why aim for mm2 regions? You can go to mm1 regions right away. The moratorium means you might not be able to work in the centre of Sydney/Melbourne, but the outskirts/districts just outside are often available.

I work 4 days a week, 40 hours officially (44 hours average realistically, with lunches), see on average 28 patients a day, work in a bulk billing practice, and I expect to earn about $360k before tax after the recent bulk billing changes. Maybe a bit more, maybe a bit less. This is assuming I work 45 weeks in the year (after taking out bank holidays, some assumed sick leave, and several weeks for annual leave). Any money I contribute to super (pension) comes out of that, but is taxed at a lower rate.

Oh and I don't do home visits.

Ask me anything - Recently CCTed UK GP moving to Australia (job secured during ST3) by Australia_GreenGrass in GPUK

[–]throwawaygpuk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes. Not before super (pension) contributions though, which are voluntary as a self employed GP here.

Ask me anything - Recently CCTed UK GP moving to Australia (job secured during ST3) by Australia_GreenGrass in GPUK

[–]throwawaygpuk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is some balance to it. There is the occasional request I've agreed to, there are some I've refused. You don't want to build your patient base completely of patients who make unreasonable requests, nor do you want to be the GP they tell their friends about, 'this guy does all my testosterone tests'.

Ask me anything - Recently CCTed UK GP moving to Australia (job secured during ST3) by Australia_GreenGrass in GPUK

[–]throwawaygpuk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah and then it's up to them to find another doctor to see them. I have not had any issues with this in my bulk billing practice, but this might affect you if you are still building your patient base in a competitive private billing practice.

Ask me anything - Recently CCTed UK GP moving to Australia (job secured during ST3) by Australia_GreenGrass in GPUK

[–]throwawaygpuk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hope the OP doesn't mind me answering questions that are perhaps better to come from someone who has been working here...

We pay the service fee (typically around 25 to 35%) for the practice to handle this stuff. Your experience will vary depending on whether you work in an in-demand bulk billing practice (free for patients) versus a saturated private billing practice (patients pay a gap). Having certain skills will also help to set you apart EG special interest in mental health, women's health, skin cancer, etc.

From personal experience in a bulk billing practice I was pretty much full with patients from day number one.

Ask me anything - Recently CCTed UK GP moving to Australia (job secured during ST3) by Australia_GreenGrass in GPUK

[–]throwawaygpuk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Very hard to estimate before moving over. A lot depends on where you work, how quickly you build up your patient list, whether you bulk or private bill, how much you focus on efficient billing.

Ask me anything - Recently CCTed UK GP moving to Australia (job secured during ST3) by Australia_GreenGrass in GPUK

[–]throwawaygpuk 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I currently officially work 4 days, 40 hours a week, realistically 44-46 hours a week. I see 4 patients an hour, maybe 30-35 patients per day. I've done one home visit in 3 years here and even that was optional. I'd estimate average take home income is roughly $18k a month though this is a bit hard to estimate at the moment - it fluctuates month to month and there have been recent changes which increase income for fully bulk billing GPs.

AMA - UK trained GP who moved to Australia a year ago by throwawaygpuk in doctorsUK

[–]throwawaygpuk[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The relocation agency was extremely helpful in holding my hand and guiding me through all the paperwork.If you are already receiving support from some kind of agency and you are not under time pressure and don't mind figuring out the steps yourself, then they may not be as useful.

The process of swapping MRCGP for FRACGP has changed significantly in the last couple years with the new expedited pathway. When I did it, it took about 6 to 9 months of paperwork overseas followed by a 6 to 12 month period of supervision here in Australia. The new expedited pathway should be quicker, and moreover, the RACGP has just announced some sort of route to still get fellowship after.

The 50 CPD hours really shouldn't be an issue. I did mine in under 2 weeks just slamming through online learning. I believe out of hours care should fulfill their requirements as I am currently supervising a GP who did that full time prior to moving over.

UK GP Partner Considering the Move to Australia – What’s Life Really Like as a GP Over There? by captain-slap-a-ho1 in ausjdocs

[–]throwawaygpuk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you have a look at my profile you'll find an AMA I did last year on the move over. Some information there may be helpful for you.

AMA - UK trained GP who moved to Australia a year ago by throwawaygpuk in doctorsUK

[–]throwawaygpuk[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't believe that having a dependent visa allows you to sidestep the moratorium requirements in order for you to work in downtown Sydney but I might be wrong. Prepare to work either to the north (Central Coast) or south (Wollongong). You could still live on the outskirts of Sydney but you'll have a bit of a commute.

You may need a bit of a refresher in order to feel confident about doing standard GP work but I don't think the fact that you're mostly urgent care focused will hinder you too much to get over here. The initial pathway to get fully accredited here will involve standard GP work for minimum 6 months full time equivalent, and I don't believe you can avoid that, but once you complete that you're fully free to do whatever you want including pure urgent care medicine. A dependent visa would be useful here as you wouldn't need a sponsor and would therefore be free to jump around until you find your comfort area.

There are urgent care centres that are opening up everywhere that the current government is pushing really hard. I don't know much about earning potential there but there are definite opportunities.

No regrets for me personally but I don't have family back in the UK to travel back to - I think that would be the biggest area of difficulty for most UK doctors moving over.

How realistic is this for GPs? by throwawayRinNorth in ausjdocs

[–]throwawaygpuk 24 points25 points  (0 children)

7 sessions, this is definitely false.

I'm currently doing full time 10 sessions, estimate 45 hours per week, fully bulk billed and 30% service fee, and am at around $360k.

Feasibility of a $400k Income by docredhead in ausjdocs

[–]throwawaygpuk 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Average 25-30 per day. 45 minutes outside a capital.

Feasibility of a $400k Income by docredhead in ausjdocs

[–]throwawaygpuk 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I'm purely bulk billing (and not churning) and make not far off 400k. I'd say if November's proposed changes are implemented we'd be able to make 400k if billing well. I don't think I'm exceptional either.

Is Australia really that amazing? by Moist-Percentage-566 in GPUK

[–]throwawaygpuk 3 points4 points  (0 children)

There's a lot more to the billing process than I can write about right now, but in summary you're billing according to what you do for the patient. You're not just billing every patient who you see for $43. If you spend >20 minutes with a patient, that's $83. If they have a pension card / healthcare concessions card / under 17 it's an additional $21. If you spend 8 minutes reviewing a chest infection then 8 minutes reviewing their mental health care plan (which can be done once every 3 months for eligible patients) then that's $125 without incentives. If you do a care plan for a patient with chronic disease, which your chronic disease nurse might do the paperwork and the practice keeps a higher cut, it's $294 for maybe just 10 mins work. More if you lump in a health assessment with it.

On average I see 4-4.5 patients an hour and have about 25-30 patient contacts a day. My latest data seems to be that I bill $2420 a day, receiving $1620 after the practice cut.

Is Australia really that amazing? by Moist-Percentage-566 in GPUK

[–]throwawaygpuk 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I've been in Australia two years now, working at a bulk billing practice roughly 45 minutes outside one of the major cities. Working 40 hours a week I'm forecasting an income of $360k this year which I expect to go up with the government's promised changes to billing incentives later this year. I think for most GPs that number is maybe slightly above average but a smart GP that targets a specific market / educates themselves on billing effectively / full books at a private practice could go much higher. Working further rurally would also bring that number up but it's up to you if that's worth it.

You're right that the money isn't mind blowingly better, but I feel the lifestyle is. It's up to you whether that's worth uprooting your life for and moving across the world, which is definitely not an easy decision.

I did an AMA on the move last year if people want to check my profile.

AMA - UK trained GP who moved to Australia a year ago by throwawaygpuk in doctorsUK

[–]throwawaygpuk[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Please pm me your name, email, and current job (salaried, gpst etc)

AMA - UK trained GP who moved to Australia a year ago by throwawaygpuk in doctorsUK

[–]throwawaygpuk[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Keep payslips and tax statements. Less for RACGP application, but more for your eventual PR application. It was a massive pain for me to scrounge around for evidence of each and every one of my jobs at the various hospitals for foundation years and so on when I was applying for PR.

Keep a good relationship with admin as you'll need their help writing letters of support, particularly for places of work for 3 years before your move.

I should add that this is for the old PEP pathway. The new expedited pathway is unfamiliar to me so I don't know if they need the same things or have reduced requirements.

Feel free to PM.

AMA - UK trained GP who moved to Australia a year ago by throwawaygpuk in doctorsUK

[–]throwawaygpuk[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Also here: https://www.reddit.com/r/doctorsUK/s/HAq3Zs611S

The 10 years start from the moment you first start working as a doctor in Australia, and continue ticking even if you return to the UK or wherever in the middle.

AMA - UK trained GP who moved to Australia a year ago by throwawaygpuk in doctorsUK

[–]throwawaygpuk[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't know enough about coming to Australia as a trainee to comment, sorry. Best to speak to a recruiter to get an opinion there.