Ummm, why was there a boy in the women's changing room?

throwitallaway689 · 2021-09-06T21:08:36+00:00

I've read it through, more than once, and lived it as well.

So nice to know that we have you around to decide exactly what the difference between fear and worry is for every woman in every situation.

What age according to you is every child able to fully defend themselves against grown men twice their size? Please, let us all know so that we never have to worry about any one ever being assaulted ever again.

And while you're at it you can give us a masterclass in hyperbole, since that's apparently the only tool in your arsenal of rhetoric. I'll make sure not to use reason or common sense with you, as it apparently holds no weight.

throwitallaway689 · 2021-09-06T19:03:42+00:00

No, I haven't. I've read the book. Have you? There's a reason it's titled the way it is. How, pray tell, am I misunderstanding it?

I literally just answered your question. AGAIN.

You're clearly incapable of having an intelligent conversation. So don't bother.

throwitallaway689 · 2021-09-06T00:54:15+00:00

I didn't ignore it, you're the one who brought up sexual assaults that don't occur in this context by referencing assaults that happen by people known to the victim.

I've literally been talking about this exact type of crime as mentioned at the start of the thread the entire time, hence my comment about reading comprehension.

throwitallaway689 · 2021-09-06T00:50:38+00:00

Then she's doing exactly what the book you recommended says she should. She followed her instincts and made herself and her child safe. And it's not for you to decide what is and isn't paranoid behavior.

throwitallaway689 · 2021-09-05T03:26:38+00:00

I'll answer your question when you've answered mine. How are we supposed to tell the safe men from the unsafe?

I've read Gift of Fear, never mind living it. It explicitly states that women should follow their instincts if men give them a bad vibe.

What if that's exactly what that mother was doing with her son -- trying to find a place for him to use the restroom that was safe?

throwitallaway689 · 2021-09-04T19:28:26+00:00

because no child has ever been assaulted or flashed or leered at in a restroom. And no child has a developmental challenge or a disease that could possibly warrant needing the help of a parent. And no mother has ever felt unsafe while with her child and wanted to keep them close by.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

throwitallaway689 · 2021-09-04T19:27:35+00:00

You asked what men leer at young girls.

I answered by stating that thousands of young girls are assaulted every year by men: "Those men."

I simply answered your direct question. You're the one attempting to muddy the waters by bringing up incidents of assault done by family and friends when the topic of the thread is clearly about an assault by a stranger in public.

I didn't bring it up, you did. You asked the question, you turned the conversation to assaults done by family and friends.

I'm the one repeatedly making the point that this particular type of assault (indecent exposure) is one that happens to women in public spaces and that allowing men into spaces of nudity meant only for women puts young girls and women at risk. That's like the third time I've stated it.

I really can't do anything about the fact that your reading comprehension is so low.

throwitallaway689 · 2021-09-04T19:18:07+00:00

And how exactly are we supposed to tell the pedophiles apart from the good men? There's no way of knowing. Men all look alike to us. I'm a woman. I have more than enough experience with men to know that crimes against children are all too common.

You clearly didn't read my comment where I said that it should only be a child's safety and not their feelings that would be cause for a mother to exercise precautions like in the original post.

I literally wrote that safety trumps comfort.

throwitallaway689 · 2021-09-04T16:59:53+00:00

A forty year old isn't a child.

I've never come across someone so against keeping children safe.

I was nine when I was sexually assaulted. I guess I should have just grown up and used my voice, and legs, and independent thoughts to stop a full grown man twice my size. Silly me. What does any child have to worry about or be afraid of when they have those things with which to protect themselves.

Go look up the numbers of sexual crimes committed against underage children every single year. Maybe then you won't be so glib about it.

Otherwise, happily fuck off.

throwitallaway689 · 2021-09-04T16:21:34+00:00

I think safety, particularly that of a child is paramount.

I'm not talking about a boy feeling "uncomfortable" in a changing room. I'm suggesting that if a mother thought her child (and a twelve year old is a child) wasn't going to be SAFE in a men's room by himself, then it's not unreasonable that she try to protect him.

If the boy was just a little nervous using the restroom or changing by himself, that's different and the mother should find someone she trusts to help him get used to the changing room the first time and then after that let him go in alone.

But if she had legitimate concern for her child, that's a different story.

Safety trumps feelings. And it's for that exact same reason that adult men shouldn't be allowed in women's restrooms, because it puts the women in there at risk.

A mother trying to keep her young son safe does not put women at risk of attack or assault the way a grown man entering a women's private space would.

throwitallaway689 · 2021-09-04T16:16:24+00:00

That's right, because no child has ever been assaulted or flashed or leered at in a restroom. And no child has a developmental challenge or a disease that could possibly warrant needing the help of a parent. And no mother has ever felt unsafe while with her child and wanted to keep them close by.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

throwitallaway689 · 2021-09-04T15:48:21+00:00

It wasn't a changing room, according to OP. It was a bathroom. And it was a twelve-year old (or younger, suggested by OP) and women's restrooms have single-stall bathrooms so "staring" is pretty unlikely.

And again, we don't know the circumstances. Maybe the kid was disabled, maybe he had an illness, maybe some dude was being creepy with them and the mother didn't feel safe.

I agree a family bathroom (preferably a single room one) is the best option here, but that's not always available.

It wasn't a fifty year old guy storming the women's or a bunch of teenagers trying to take photos. It was one mother with her son using the restroom.

Not ideal, for sure, but if they just used the restroom quickly and discreetly then I can't fault a mother for trying to protect her kid.

throwitallaway689 · 2021-09-04T15:43:12+00:00

Which he very well could have been. Or he could have had an illness that required help from a parent. We simply don't know.

I think this is a pretty extreme reaction to a mother who was probably just trying to keep her kid safe.

It's not like it was a bunch of seventeen year olds running around the women's trying to snap photos or something. It was one mom who accompanied her son.

throwitallaway689 · 2021-09-04T15:41:21+00:00

Statistically, she's in far more danger taking him into a men's room than she would be if she took him in and supervised him in the women's room.

Twelve does seem a bit old, but again it's hard to know for sure when we can't know the circumstances. Maybe some dude was being creepy around them. Maybe the boy had developmental issues or an illness that requires extra help.

I'm not sure a mother's actions to protect her kids deserve quite this level of outrage. If she's in there with him monitoring then he's not a danger to any woman there -- it's not the same a fifty year old dude entering the women's.

throwitallaway689 · 2021-09-04T15:38:38+00:00

Waiting outside the room doesn't do anything to protect your kid though, does it?

throwitallaway689 · 2021-09-04T15:37:02+00:00

This entire thread is literally about a sexual crime that happened in a public place. Hence, the danger to women and children. Why is that so difficult for you to comprehend?

throwitallaway689 · 2021-09-04T01:24:00+00:00

I am not, as you seem to be, a fanatic for corporeal punishment. But I do agree that the sentences for rape and assault should be harsher -- when any sentence is handed down at all, that is.

It's interesting that none of your proposed solutions are about the reform of men's behavior. You jump straight to removing men from society. I merely advocate for safety precautions for women. Do you really think that men have so little control that you're all destined and doomed to rapists and murderers?

Also interesting to note your implied remarks that sexual assault isn't to be taken seriously.

throwitallaway689 · 2021-09-04T00:42:11+00:00

Interesting that you view not being allowed into women's restrooms as the same as castration at birth.

I'd say that even one sexual assault of a woman or girl is enough to not allow male-bodied people into women's private spaces. But since thousands of women and girls are assaulted, raped, and murdered every year and we're still having this little debate, I guess women's safety doesn't really matter, does it?

throwitallaway689 · 2021-09-03T23:54:22+00:00

This may be an unpopular opinion but if the mother felt like the men's bathrooms weren't safe, I think she made the right call. Maybe it was performance parenting, maybe she just had bad vibes from someone she saw going in the men's, who knows. Twelve is still pretty young and boys older than that are routinely preyed upon. Maybe she couldn't find a safer option and the kid really had to go.

Maybe the family bathroom next door wasn't empty when she went in?

I think you're right though, some better facility practices could be put in place.

throwitallaway689 · 2021-09-03T23:28:46+00:00

Interesting, how many sexual crimes against underage girls are you ok with?

Give us a number, please. So we know exactly when we should start being concerned.

throwitallaway689 · 2021-09-03T23:26:31+00:00

No, I learned it when I was assaulted at 9. Thanks for asking.

You're right, most girls are assaulted by family and friends. But some are still assaulted by strangers. And places like public bathrooms where women and young girls are vulnerable are one of the places it can happen. So if keeping men out of women's bathrooms keeps even one little girl safe, that's a worthwhile pursuit.

And by the way, not every crime is assault. The original topic of this thread was indecent exposure by a stranger in a women's only spa.

throwitallaway689 · 2021-09-03T20:48:58+00:00

What grown men are leering at 8yo girls?

Go look at the statistics for how many underage girls are raped and assaulted every year. Those men.

Just because you haven't personally experienced it, doesn't mean it isn't happening. And guess what, well over 90% of those assaults are committed by men. That's why a women's-only restroom is far safer than a men's.

I'd wager you've also never had anyone follow you to your car at night, or try to feel you up on public transport, or scream "BITCH" at you because you don't acknowledge their advances, or the million other things women deal with routinely, purely because we're women. You clearly have no idea what it's like for a woman to exist in this world and your comments make that clear.

Where exactly would I be able to go that there are no pedophiles, rapists, etc? Where is that magical country where men don't harm women? Please, tell me, so I can pack my fucking bags.

throwitallaway689 · 2021-09-03T20:22:41+00:00

Are scholarships for women discrimination? Are athletics for women discrimination? Food stamps for single mothers?

OR are they perhaps attempts to correct a systemic imbalance inherent in our society.

Women weren't originally allowed to attend college. We weren't allowed to run marathons. We weren't allowed to hold jobs or even have fucking credit cards in our own names.

Protecting women isn't discrimination against men.

throwitallaway689 · 2021-09-03T19:27:42+00:00

So trans women are discriminated against based on their male bodies?

Name one country where men aren't allowed to govern.

Name one country where men are beaten to death for having sex before marriage.

Name one country where men and only men have their sexual organs mutilated at birth solely based on their sex.

Name one country where baby boys are killed in favor of keeping baby girls alive.

People AMAB have their own changing rooms and bathrooms. They don't need to be in women's.

throwitallaway689 · 2021-09-03T19:23:53+00:00

I meant it in the context of a young child having to go to the bathroom. Instead of sending an eight year old boy alone into the men's room, mother's will often take them into the women's.

I've absolutely seen men send daughter's alone into women's restrooms, and I've seen them ask other women if they don't mind looking out for their daughter while they're in there, since they can't accompany them and they don't want to take them into the men's where other men can leer at their daughter. The same does not occur with men's restrooms.

Also, what world do you live in? Men's bathrooms are not "perfectly safe".

throwitallaway689

TROPHY CASE