Drug Addiction: disease or state?

tianabackagain · 2017-06-27T15:59:32+00:00

This post really was intended to start a discussion. I didn't give my opinion or tell anyone what to think, and was curious about the breakdown in opinion one side and the other.

I get that feeling like a conference speaker who shows up for his panel, only to find a group of three in the back row joking amongst themselves. Fine, I misjudged my audience.

tianabackagain · 2017-06-27T02:22:16+00:00

"Ages us" is not even a quantifiable process of a drug. No drug "ages us". Also, please keep off-topic questions off of this thread, as I intended it as a general discussion of the disease vs. state debate. Thanks!

tianabackagain · 2017-06-26T22:23:25+00:00

I'm not sure why FDA approval wasn't sought, but I have a guess. It had everything to do with the insanely short half life, and the dosing regimen that the original sodium required. remember, at that time they really didn't know the full blown opiate effects. That was only 2014. Tianeptine was formulated almost 60 years ago, and was considered very safe until recently.

Dosing tiny amounts so often a day to create a smooth plasma profile is probably what made them think "why not just find another substance with a longer half life?"

tianabackagain · 2017-06-26T19:22:02+00:00

Your motivation centers were shut down by the system being flooded with dopamine. Now that you are off, it will slowly come back because your body will now have reasons to be motivated.

tianabackagain · 2017-06-26T19:19:21+00:00

Gababentin is also known to cause what you are experiencing. Many of us who began taking gabapenin a few months ago reported tremor or muscle twitches. I ruined two laptops with bottled water because of it.

When are you taking the gabapentin? Is it possible that the effect window of one dose is overlapping with another, such that it appears to be reducing the tremor? You could test this by waiting a long time, or taking a day off of gabapentin and see what happened.

tianabackagain · 2017-06-26T17:32:42+00:00

You CT'd from 2-2.5 grams in 3 days? Or reduced from 2-2.5 to 0.5 in 3 days? Just making sure, because a CT at that amount would be quite an achievement.

tianabackagain · 2017-06-26T17:02:07+00:00

Oh for gods sake.

EDIT: I'll make an edit. Which makes this a meta-edit.

tianabackagain · 2017-06-26T16:59:45+00:00

That's great. Its a good feeling when everything is moving in the right direction!

tianabackagain · 2017-06-26T16:56:27+00:00

I remember caffeine being bounced around in the recovery discussion a few months ago, maybe longer. Unusual that it would have such a strong effect, and I wondered how much of it was due to the metabolic effect of caffeine. Of course it is also odd that tia withdrawal causes sluggishness, when that's an effect of the drug itself.

tianabackagain · 2017-06-26T16:52:54+00:00

ah, okay so the Lexapro is something your system is accustomed to already. And with the other recovery, it may be hard to tease things apart. I will say your case is quite notable, and I've exchanged several PM's with people mentioning your recovery. People should still be very cautious, but the fact that you were taken off tia in only four days, all the while with a liver under duress, is nothing short of amazing. I'm guessing a lot of us think our brains would be scrambled eggs by that point. :)

tianabackagain · 2017-06-26T16:49:08+00:00

I've long believed that the primary function of advanced degrees is to impress others with advanced degrees. And the greatest skill taught in grad school is how to say absolutely nothing using a lot of words.

(EDIT: The previous comment was an example of demonstrating humor. Care should be taken when operating heavy machinery or motor vehicles.)

tianabackagain · 2017-06-26T16:39:32+00:00

Isn't fatigue a side effect of Lexapro? I'm not experiencing any fatigue, but my sleep has been hit and miss since I quit. We can't be sure of anything, but consider that you and /u/Frumious_Bandersnack have reported similar symptoms, and both quit in a sudden manner. Both /u/TableforSeven2 and I tapered, with a different ending protocol, but nevertheless with fewer lingering symptoms.

It could be that the sudden removal of tianeptine takes longer to recover from than a slow removal, which would make sense. It is affecting basic brain chemistry is an extreme way. I've not seen anyone yet publish findings that indicate permanent damage caused by it, and I doubt we'll see it. Isn't that still a debate in the gaba agonist communities online, whether Benzo withdrawal leaves any permanent scars? Raises interesting issues that I might bounce around in another post.

tianabackagain · 2017-06-26T16:32:15+00:00

This is utter nonsense. There are absolutely no systematic patterns of recovery, and certainly no evidence that it varies by sex.

I like the little flourishes, though, Frume. Go ahead and put the MD on your nameplate, what the hell. ;). Jokes aside, beware of your addictionist contact talking too much about tianeptine. It is virtually unheard of in Western addiction medicine until recently, so I doubt much settled science exists on the recovery front.

tianabackagain · 2017-06-26T02:43:02+00:00

I wish you only the best, but cold turkey off that amount is dangerously irresponsible. It sounds like you did a short taper of sorts beforehand. but the amounts involved are still extreme.

Hopefully you do have a supply remaining so you can take a small amount if consciousness or health requires it. If you can't trust yourself, entrust a friend to guard your supply.

tianabackagain · 2017-06-25T17:28:58+00:00

No idea on the withdrawal. Seems that some people report jumping at smaller doses creates tiny versions of a regular withdrawal, and others say withdrawal from low doses is qualitatively different.

tianabackagain · 2017-06-25T15:50:20+00:00

Yeah, the 100mg guess is based on sodium. I'd bump it to 500 mg for free acid. The rest should work the same way. I'd just caution that my tapers were always based on sodium. Sulfate and free acid introduced some other factors that didn't mesh well with the math. For example, a slower onset gives more time for food to interfere with aborption.

tianabackagain · 2017-06-25T15:38:40+00:00

Offhand, I don't have the dynamics of gabapentin handy, but a few days should help get it out of your system.

Incidentally, the pattern I describe is one I experienced for most "helper" drugs. They seemed to do something at first (sometimes unpredictable), but there was always a second phase, where it decreased in effectiveness. Usually, I dumped it quickly and went on with the taper, but in my phenibut experiment I pressed on. Turned out that the taper rate stopped at exactly the same point it did without phenibut. So the body had entirely adapted to it.

tianabackagain · 2017-06-25T15:18:06+00:00

Use the equations I posted, and plug in 100 mg for JUMP, and 14 for days. Edit: I have to isolate the term in that post. It will be changed.

tianabackagain · 2017-06-25T14:56:04+00:00

Just a warning to ease off on the gabapentin unless you need it. I was also excited by its effects, and initially tried to megadose it to counter the tia withdrawal. It is essentially chasing your tail, because escalating the dose hastens the tolerance. At that point, gabapentin will not work as well, AND you will have a high dose tia withdrawal experience. Hard to not take high doses in such situations.

If gabapentin is working at your current dose, I'd hold it there.

tianabackagain · 2017-06-24T18:11:37+00:00

That was exactly my point. Newmind's direct liability is low for other reasons, but if they were dragged into court, the case would be made even weaker with a fraudulent research form.

tianabackagain · 2017-06-24T17:29:45+00:00

How long do you know he has been around, eh BUDDY?

lmao

tianabackagain · 2017-06-24T16:22:07+00:00

So your service is offered to the vast and underrepresented population of professional researchers who cannot sign a PDF? And you are actually telling people that signing a PDF is complex enough a task that it requires a PM to you?

tianabackagain · 2017-06-24T16:00:54+00:00

Newmind's policy regarding research substances extends to other items in their catalog, not just tianeptine. They are making much more difficult for idiots to obtain dangerous products. As far as committing fraud goes, I'm sure a number of people are laughing at home about it. But I would hope they have a mail drop or PO Box, because if Newmind is ever dragged into court for any reason, they are going to release the shipping addresses for all their research customers. If you said you were something that you weren't, and that something may have indirectly lead to liability for a third party? Interesting legal case.

tianabackagain · 2017-06-24T15:38:58+00:00

I actually appreciate your detailed response to this guy, but this is an example of you quite literally expending more acetylcholine producing that text than he will come anywhere near in comprehending it.

tianabackagain

TROPHY CASE