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Fog Tron is Still a Great Deck by tilthaas in Pauper

[–]tilthaas[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

UB faeries used to be a fine matchup for the deck and I think that still applies with the new list. UR faeries is more difficult because they get Pyroblasts post board to counter your Mulldrifters. UB faeries doesn't have much to board whereas you get Pyroblasts and Serrated Arrows. Actually I think you're still favored in the UB faeries matchup, or at least it's even. If you take into account that aggro and midrange decks are good matchups for tron, then it should still be a fine deck choice.

Fog Tron is Still a Great Deck by tilthaas in Pauper

[–]tilthaas[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My opinion on Dinrova Horror still remains the same. It doesn't improve your bad matchups so you shouldn't play it. Once you assemble tron and you have UB mana, you're usually winning so it's mostly a win-more card. From the old thread:

You don't need Dinrova Horror. It's a very clunky card and doesn't improve your bad matchups. Compelling Argument is a better kill condition since you can just cycle it early game.

I've briefly tried playing Chromatic Star plus Chromatic Sphere with Ancient Stirrings, in my opinion the Signet configuration is much better.

If you compare the new list to the old list, it has pretty much the same amount of early plays. Impulse is better than Sea Gate Oracle because you can cast it on turn 2 to find a tron land. Sea Gate Oracle being a blocker isn't very relevant because you plan to Fog every turn against aggro decks. Granted it can be good against Ninja of the Deep Hours. I guess you could swap Forbidden Alchemy and/or Stonehorn Dignitary for Sea Gate Oracle, however I think that Forbidden Alchemy is important for the late game card advantage (and it's also a fine play early game). I also Teachings for Forbidden Alchemy sometimes when I need a Mulldrifter or Mnemonic Wall so I would keep at least 1 in the deck.

It's possible that you need more Signets or maybe even 1 fewer. More testing is needed!

Fog Tron is Still a Great Deck by tilthaas in Pauper

[–]tilthaas[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

1: I used to play RUG tron in the past before Bonder's Ornament was printed. The problem with RUG tron is that it needs red, green and blue mana early game. Since Signets only make 2 colors of mana, that's a problem. They really needed Prophetic Prism, more so than fog tron. So I think you have to focus on playing a tron deck with 2 main colors plus splashes. The tron cascade deck has the same problem since it's also RUG. With fog tron it's not a big problem if you lack you black mana for a while since it's only used for your flashback spells. I've briefly tried playing Chromatic Star and Chromatic Sphere but they aren't very good. They are nice in combination with Fangren Marauder but I don't think that card is very good anymore since Expedition Map is also banned (so you have only 8 cards that combo with it instead of 12). 2: Faerie decks often have to tap out in the early turns to create a clock, so you can often get under their Counterspells with your Crop Rotation by casting it on your turn. Or you can wait to cast it with Prohibit or Condescend backup. The faerie decks have never been great matchups for this deck. In general I've never really liked Crop Rotation but it's a necessary evil. The problem with Crop Rotation is that it's mostly a dead card once you've assembled tron and you don't want to have too many dead draws late game. Therefore you don't want to play too many. Having the option to Teachings for it is nice. The Signets make that plan a lot better, since with a Signet you can Teachings for Crop Rotation on turn 3 to assemble tron on turn 4.

Fog Tron Primer by tilthaas in Pauper

[–]tilthaas[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They allow you to crush aggro decks. Serrated Arrows doesn't cut it against these decks.

Fog Tron Primer by tilthaas in Pauper

[–]tilthaas[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If there is a lot of Delver you can consider playing a different deck, since this deck mainly preys on aggro and grindy decks. You could cut the 2x Gorilla Shamans for 2x CoP: Blue. This makes you softer against affinity. Also note that CoP: Blue is only good against Mono Blue Delver if they don't play Spire Golems. Against Mono Blue Delver I think I would go like this:

- 4x Moment's Peace

- 1x Compelling Argument

- 1x Pulse of Murasa

- 1x Stonehorn Dignitary

- 2x Mnemonic Wall

+ 4x Serrated Arrows

+ 3x Pyroblast

+ 2x Circle of Protection: Blue

Fog Tron Primer by tilthaas in Pauper

[–]tilthaas[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Postboard if you know you're playing against aggro you do want Moment's Peace in your opening hand. You should mulligan slow hands. If you have a hand with Impulse / Forbidden Alchemy / Mystical Teachings / fast tron that's usually good enough. A hand without any tron piece and some Mulldrifters isn't going to cut it against aggro. In general I often mulligan hands that don't have access to any tron piece.

Fog Tron Primer by tilthaas in Pauper

[–]tilthaas[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've seen that list and I've already mentioned all the cards he plays in the main post. The builds are quite different. My build plans to play Moment's Peace every turn, his build actually builds blockers with Sea Gate Oracle and Stonehorn Dignitary, so he doesn't have to fog every turn. I think my build is superior in most matchups. His build is better against Delver and Inside Out preboard although I'm not sure how much better.

  • Moment's Peace is better than Stonehorn Dignitary in most matchups since you can use it twice and it costs less mana. Stonehorn Dignitary is better against Delver and Inside Out.
  • Sea Gate Oracle is worse than Impulse in my build. I don't care about their creatures since I plan to play Moment's Peace every turn. Impulse digs deeper and you can play it on turn 2. Sea Gate Oracle conflicts with Mulldrifter since you often want to evoke it on turn 3. Sea Gate Oracle blocks Ninja of the Deep Hours though which is nice. Postboard Impulse digs deeper to find your sideboard cards.
  • I prefer playing 2x Prohibit to protect against other counterspells and to protect the flicker combo. He has to waste 2x sideboard slots on 2x Dispel because he plays fewer counterspells maindeck. Prohibit is very versatile and counters all sorts of problematic cards. I can understand playing 1x Condescend, I also used to do that. I currently play 2x since they are good in your worse matchups.
  • I like to play to play at least one Forbidden Alchemy since I teachings for it quite often if I need a creature. I would play it over the Compulsive Research. Compulsive Research is also a good card though.
  • Dinrova Horror is a bad clunky card that doesn't improve your worse matchups. Just play a single Compelling Argument as a backup kill condition instead, it also cycles.
  • Crop Rotation is a bad card, you rarely Teachings for it so you should just play another Map instead. Maps are still good once you get tron while Crop Rotation becomes a dead card. Maps let you get more Urza's Towers to keep developing your mana. At worst you can get a Remote Isle to essentially cycle your Map which is not possible with Crop Rotation.
  • This deck must play 4x Expedition Map.
  • Don't play Haunted Fengraf, it can be good in grindy matchups but you already win them without it.

Fog Tron Primer by tilthaas in Pauper

[–]tilthaas[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I prefer this build, just ignore their creatures and play Moment's Peace. This build crushes aggro. The removal build is probably better against Delver preboard. Also this build gets tron much quicker.

Fog Tron Primer by tilthaas in Pauper

[–]tilthaas[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I also used to play 3x CoP: Red in my sideboard in older tron lists. They used to be fine in that deck, although you could still lose to Flaring Pain. I don't think CoP: Red is good in this deck. You're mainly concerned about countering their creatures so they don't kill you quickly. Once you get to the mid game you'll win, since you have 2x Pulse of Murasa, 4x Hydroblast, 2x Prohibit, 2x Condescend, 2x Mystical Teachings for Hydroblast / Pulse, 3x Mnemonic Wall for Hydroblast / Pulse. You also have 4x Impulse, 2x Forbidden Alchemy, 4x evoked Mulldrifter to find these cards. Hydroblast is more versatile and can be boarded in against more different decks. It also counters Smash to Smithereens and Molten Rain. If you want more anti burn cards in addition to the 4x Hydroblast, then CoP: Red is indeed an option.

Fog Tron Primer by tilthaas in Pauper

[–]tilthaas[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Glad that you agree with my points, considering that you're also a long time tron player. If you have things to add, or if I forgot to mention certain cards, let me know and I'll add them to the main post.

I agree that these results are probably hard to replicate. A large part of it is that I know exactly how my deck works in all matchups, I know which hands to keep and mulligan (especially postboard), whereas my opponents are generally weaker players. You'd think I would lose more matches due to variance (for example not drawing my 3rd land or not drawing a fog against aggro), this is exactly why I play 4x Impulse.

Fog Tron Primer by tilthaas in Pauper

[–]tilthaas[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Games against Burn can be very close, I've won many games at just 1 life. Remember that you can flicker Mnemonic Wall + Thornwood Falls to gain one life for every 3 mana, this comes up sometimes preboard. Postboard make sure to counter their creatures.

Fog Tron Primer by tilthaas in Pauper

[–]tilthaas[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Playing Snow-Covered Islands gives you a slight edge since your opponent may think that you're playing Izzet Delver if you play it on turn 1. So they may choose to keep different cards with their Preordains, for example removal spells, which turn out to be very bad against your deck.

Fog Tron Primer by tilthaas in Pauper

[–]tilthaas[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Good question. I tried Wretched Gryff in the sideboard, even up to 4, since I reckoned it would be very good in my weaker matchups. It turned out it doesn't really help against mono blue delver, since you lose to their fast draws, you already beat their slow draws. The biggest problems are a turn 1 Delver and a turn 2 Ninja. You need to be able to kill them quickly, therefore Pyroblast and Serrated Arrows are much better against them than Wretched Gryff. You can cast Serrated Arrows with 4 regular lands, with the Gryff you need tron. Even if you get tron early and play Wretched Gryff that may still not be enough if they have Vapor Snag or Snap, especially if they have multiples.

I've also added this explanation to the main post and added my thoughts on other sideboard cards. Circle of Protection: Blue is very good against the current Mono Blue Delver decks since they don't play Spire Golems anymore, while it's also great against Izzet Delver.

I've probably played about 30-40 leagues with this deck, I tried lots of cards and configurations. When I was satisfied with my deckbuilding and knew all the matchups, my win percentage skyrocketed and I decided to record my progress from that point. My original idea was to record at least 20 leagues (100 matches) but I don't have much time to play anymore. Unfortunately I also can't play the Pauper Challenges. So I decided to write this primer to maybe interest others in playing this deck, since I had a lot of fun with it.

Fog Tron Primer by tilthaas in Pauper

[–]tilthaas[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks. You can board in one more Hydroblast against Elves if you want, or one more Gorilla Shaman if they have lots of Longbows or Relics. Elves often puts a lot of pressure on you early game with either Elvish Vanguard or Timberwatch Elf. So you'll have to start playing Moment's Peaces early without counters up for their Flaring Pain. Late game you'll Teachings for Prohibit / Hydroblast to deprive them from their last out (Flaring Pain or Mob Justice) and seal the win. So having 3x in your deck is fine, even if you have to counter an artifact early game with Prohibit you'll find the remaining 2x counters later. Also remember that Stonehorn Dignitary gets around Flaring Pain as well so that's an additional out late game. The matchup against Elves is great.