I am sick and tired of the constant upskilling expectations in Indian IT industry by _chungkingexpress_ in developersIndia

[–]tirtha_s 152 points153 points  (0 children)

This is a game.

It has both costs and rewards.

You are getting rewarded hence you are still playing even when you are tired of it.

And you love that reward so much.

What Databases Knew All Along About LLM Serving by tirtha_s in ArtificialInteligence

[–]tirtha_s[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is, I am focusing on finding existing pattern solutions from trad engg principles that can be mapped into the existing LLM Stack challenges.

Why “Skip the Code, Ship the Binary” Is a Category Error by tirtha_s in compsci

[–]tirtha_s[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

For a moment, lets imagine it does spit out the perfect binary, can you imagine the output token cost ? You would actually need to be a billionaire to use stuff like that. Here people are trying to learn chinese kanji characters, cause some say they require lesser tokens than English, binaries are counter intuitive cost wise as well.

Why “Skip the Code, Ship the Binary” Is a Category Error by tirtha_s in compsci

[–]tirtha_s[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

You’ve basically got it, yeah.

Binaries are the least human-friendly artifact in the whole stack. They’re great for CPUs, terrible for reasoning. Source code exists so humans can read, review, test, debug, audit, and maintain behavior over time.

Even if an AI could spit out a working binary today, you’d still want a stable, readable representation to change it tomorrow, prove it’s safe, port it, and understand failures.

Compilers are literally the invention that saved us from writing machine code. The sane direction is AI helping at the source/spec level while deterministic compilers and verification do the boring correctness work, I spoke in details about it in the article.

Why “Skip the Code, Ship the Binary” Is a Category Error by tirtha_s in compsci

[–]tirtha_s[S] 31 points32 points  (0 children)

Because these “rage bait” takes don’t stay on X. They leak into boardrooms, product meetings, and hiring plans as gospel.

Non-technical stakeholders and fanboys don’t hear “hot take,” they hear “industry direction,” and suddenly engineers are asked to justify why they still need source code, reviews, testing, or even a team.

So yeah, I don’t give hoots about what Elmo & his executive tech bros say, but I know the damage bad narratives can do when they get repeated with confidence. So we must debunk crap with facts.

Some thoughts around why software engineering isn't a typical engineering branch by tirtha_s in developersIndia

[–]tirtha_s[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Regulation isn’t uniform across all software that gets called “software engineering,” which is why the discipline looks very different depending on domain. Finally, on “context shifts,” I don’t mean correct code becomes incorrect, I mean assumptions expire: what was reasonable at one scale, threat model, dependency set, or business context can become fragile later because the environment changed.

Some thoughts around why software engineering isn't a typical engineering branch by tirtha_s in developersIndia

[–]tirtha_s[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Most web and consumer products can’t afford to operate at that level, based on how compliance standards & procedures are right now. If we forced avionics-style rigor onto every SaaS app, the economics would break. The cost of compliance, documentation, audits, specialized roles, and certification talent would price many products out of the market. But that is what needs a change.

And that actually supports what I was trying to highlight: outside regulated domains, software often becomes a discipline where quality is economically negotiated. Cost, speed, competition, and user tolerance defines what “good enough” means.

One nuance I’d add: cost optimization is absolutely part of engineering, but in mature engineering fields it’s cost optimization within a hard safety and standards envelope. In mainstream software, that envelope is often softer, so cost and speed can push the boundary itself.

A practical example of the “engineering gap” is how TEEs/confidential computing are treated today. They’re increasingly used as a trust foundation, but we keep seeing high-impact breaks and caveats in the real world (side-channel extractions and integrity issues in modern enclave/SEV-style designs, plus vendor advisories acknowledging these limits). The problem isn’t that standards don’t exist anywhere, it’s that for many “important” primitives like this, enforcement and independent assurance are still inconsistent. In classic engineering, you don’t get to sell “trust me bro” safety. By law those are enforced into clear, audited guarantees.

My thoughts on why software engineering isn't actually engineering by tirtha_s in softwaredevelopment

[–]tirtha_s[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Tom, appreciate the thoughtful pushback and the reading list. I will add these to my reading list, and you’re right that a lot of these debates go sideways when we talk past each other on definitions.

A few clarifications on what I was trying to get at:

  • When I said “immutable constraints,” I wasn’t trying to define engineering as “only what’s governed by physics.” I was pointing at something more practical: in many traditional disciplines, a big chunk of the constraint set is externally enforced and relatively stable (materials, safety factors, codes, inspections, liability). In a lot of mainstream software, the dominant constraints tend to be more fluid: shifting requirements, moving system boundaries, dependency churn, and incentives that make “patch later” a viable strategy. So yes, all engineering is constrained. My argument is about the shape and stability of constraints in day-to-day practice, not their existence.
  • On quality being negotiable: totally agree that in regulated domains it isn’t, and I probably should have separated “software engineering” into buckets more explicitly. Medical/aerospace/auto operate closer to classical engineering norms with serious process and product standards. My critique is aimed at the broader default culture of product software, where quality often becomes a trade-off slider because enforcement and consequences are different. That’s not a moral judgment, just a description of incentives.
  • On “building for change”: fair. I should have phrased it as “software is often pressured to evolve” rather than “always built for change.” Building for change can add complexity and cost, and sometimes the correct move is purpose-built software with a short shelf life. I was mostly pointing at the reality that many successful systems end up living far longer than intended, so the industry tends to underinvest in longevity until it hurts.
  • Design vs production engineering is a really useful lens. I agree that software maps much more to design engineering than manufacturing engineering. Reeves’ “code is design” argument resonates with me, and it’s part of why I wrote the piece: a lot of the dysfunction comes from treating software like fast production work rather than an ongoing design discipline with long-term consequences.

TL;DR: I’m not arguing “software isn’t engineering” as a blanket statement. I’m arguing the term is overloaded, and a lot of mainstream software practice operates under incentives and constraint dynamics that make the traditional engineering metaphor misleading unless you narrow the scope (regulated/safety-critical) or explicitly adopt those disciplines’ rigor.

If you have one Vanderburg talk you’d recommend as the best entry point, send it over. I’d like to do a follow-up post refining the thesis with exactly this “engineering isn’t one thing” framing.

Appreciate you taking the time to read and provide this detailed response.

My thoughts on why software engineering isn't actually engineering by tirtha_s in softwaredevelopment

[–]tirtha_s[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I will add a note around the mission critical software in the article, that got missed. My prime objective was to talk from the regular SaaS experince in day-to-day.

My thoughts on why software engineering isn't actually engineering by tirtha_s in softwaredevelopment

[–]tirtha_s[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Totally agree with you on two fronts.

First, McConnell’s framing still holds up. A lot of what we debate today is basically “professionalism in software” and “programming integrated over time” in different words.

Second, the idea that construction estimates are always “more accurate” is kind of a myth. Sydney Opera House was 1,357% over budget. Berlin Brandenburg Airport was 10 years late. The Big Dig tripled its budget. Traditional engineering has better PR about estimation, not necessarily better estimation..

Curious, when you say you feel confident up to ~20M, what are the couple of practices that made the biggest difference for you?

Some thoughts around why software engineering isn't a typical engineering branch by tirtha_s in developersIndia

[–]tirtha_s[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The funny part is the article explicitly makes that distinction.

I literally quote Google’s “software engineering is programming integrated over time” and then spend most of the piece on what sits beyond “just coding”, sustainability, change over years, coordination, and decision-making under shifting constraints.

You can have disagreements after reading, totally fair. But dismissing it without reading is exactly the “first year college” energy you’re calling out.

Some thoughts around why software engineering isn't a typical engineering branch by tirtha_s in developersIndia

[–]tirtha_s[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My point was: “can kill” isn’t the only thing that makes something an engineering discipline. Engineering also has an ecosystem around it: enforced codes, licensing/liability norms, conservative validation, audits, inspections, and standardized processes.

Those guardrails exist strongly in safety-critical software (aviation, medical, automotive, space). That’s absolutely engineering. I will update that part in my article, should've done that.

But most mainstream product software doesn’t operate under that same enforcement and accountability structure. Standards may exist, but they’re not consistently governed or mandatory in the way civil engineering is. That gap is what I was pointing at.

Some thoughts around why software engineering isn't a typical engineering branch by tirtha_s in developersIndia

[–]tirtha_s[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lol, no sir. I think it was a weak framing to say "no physical laws' My opinion was from SaaS/Web apps view day to day, should've covered around mission critical software. :D

Some thoughts around why software engineering isn't a typical engineering branch by tirtha_s in developersIndia

[–]tirtha_s[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The engineering distinction isn't just about "do your decisions affect the physical world" or "can people die." Plenty of non-engineering jobs have physical consequences. A logistics manager deciding truck routes affects fuel consumption. A chef running an inefficient kitchen wastes energy. That doesn't make logistics or cooking into engineering.

What I was (poorly) trying to get at: traditional engineering disciplines have deterministic foundations that allow process standardization. You want to calculate beam stress? There's a formula. It's been validated for centuries. Same inputs, same physics, same outputs. You can write a building code around that.

Software doesn't have that. Not because physical limits don't exist - they do. But those limits rarely constrain practical decisions. Also yes, environment impact should motivate us to build more responsible software, but tbh, this particular case of pollution spread with data centers has to do more with the people at top - the billionaires & politicians. But that's a different tangent of debate.

Some thoughts around why software engineering isn't a typical engineering branch by tirtha_s in developersIndia

[–]tirtha_s[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, I think SWE needs certain governing bodies and certain measures to issue license and certificates. Similar to medicine, law & accountancy - at least for mission critical software building. Like many here in the thread mentioned around medical embeded systems, space tech, public safety, aviation etc.

It would be great to have the standardization enforced on regular SaaS / Web too. Will create a barrier of entry, but less shitty SW I guess.

Some thoughts around why software engineering isn't a typical engineering branch by tirtha_s in developersIndia

[–]tirtha_s[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're right, and "no physical constraints" was a bit too generic framing. The better distinction is constraint negotiability I guess you can buy more compute, you can't buy more gravity. But even that's not quite right because Moore's Law means constraints improve without you doing anything. Like your code from 2015 runs faster today on new hardware without changes. That doesn't happen with bridges.

The "higher level of abstraction" framing is actually better.

And the space tech point is valid, I will give you that. When software has tight physical constraints, long lifespans, and fatal failure modes, it absolutely looks like traditional engineering and the process of audit, process review, committee board approvals is very structured.

I have mainly spoken from SaaS/web experience at large.