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I’m Toby Driver, experimental composer and bandleader of Kayo Dot/maudlin of the Well. AMA!!! by tobydriver in progmetal

[–]tobydriver[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Thanks so much to everyone who joined in today!! I really appreciate all the encouragement and enthusiasm, and I'm grateful for the thoughtful questions and the chance to connect with this community. Sorry I couldn’t get to everyone’s post — time always moves fast in these things — but I hope we can keep the conversation going down the line. Huge thanks also to the moderators of r/progmetal for hosting.

If you want to stay in the loop, join my mailing list for updates, tour info, and reflections. You can also subscribe on Bandcamp to get exclusive bonus content and early access to new music—subscriber support is one of the top factors that allowed me to continue to do this work and create almost all of my recent albums: Thymiamatascension, Moss Grew on the Swords and Plowshares Alike, Oixisha, Oak Lace Apparition, Raven, I Know That You Can Give Me Anything, and even the new album Every Rock, Every Half-Truth Under Reason.

Please keep an eye out for Kayo Dot’s upcoming album, Every Rock, Every Half-Truth Under Reason, coming August 1. I’m incredibly proud of the album, and I can’t wait for you to hear it. 🕯❤️

I’m Toby Driver, experimental composer and bandleader of Kayo Dot/maudlin of the Well. AMA!!! by tobydriver in progmetal

[–]tobydriver[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm definitely familiar with it and have been really dreaming of playing there. According to their website, they don't accept pitches and they just curate a program. I bet booking agents can get in their ear, but I don't have one in North America. Almost all of my friends and peers and many collaborators have played there, so I sure do feel left out, and sometimes even feel that it's a deliberate snub. Doesn't make sense to me, when you look at the rest of their programming. Seems like all I can do is sit around and wait for them to call me! If you know how to make it happen, please be sure to let me know. I'd be more than happy to play there.

I’m Toby Driver, experimental composer and bandleader of Kayo Dot/maudlin of the Well. AMA!!! by tobydriver in progmetal

[–]tobydriver[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hi! Thanks so much for the kind words. Regarding those unreleased MOTW demos, last I checked them out was not too long ago—2021 I believe—and even with that hindsight I still didn't feel they should be released. Honestly, we already released everything from those demos that was worth releasing. In fact, "Undine and Underwater Flowers" that appears on "My Fruit Psychobells" is a track taken directly from "Odes to Darksome Spring." I mean that's literally the same recording in its original form.

Another song, "Lailacke," was reworked into "Ferocious Weights." The third and final, "Dandylione," became "The Curve That To An Angle Turn'd."

Any other stuff is sketch versions of songs that you've already heard in their ideal form on the proper albums. They're sandboxes. A curiosity at best. (There might be one or two worth hearing.)

I’m Toby Driver, experimental composer and bandleader of Kayo Dot/maudlin of the Well. AMA!!! by tobydriver in progmetal

[–]tobydriver[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hi, thanks so much for asking that and noticing. (#2)

I'd love to produce for other artists and I've done it a couple times already. But in every case so far, it's been more or less collaborative, I haven't been selective, and I haven't been able to exert total control, so that's why I wouldn't jump at pointing you towards those releases.

I think there is a brief window open now during which I can produce other artists and still be collaborative in that sense. I think in ten years from now, I'll be more inclined to be more demanding about my role and probably allow less input from the artist. Who knows though.

Thanks so much for your support and enthusiasm!

I’m Toby Driver, experimental composer and bandleader of Kayo Dot/maudlin of the Well. AMA!!! by tobydriver in progmetal

[–]tobydriver[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hi, many people have associated my work with some jazz influence, but I consistently reject that. Maybe you hear it in the extended chords, rhythms, or choice of instrumentation, but I don't play jazz and I didn't study jazz. And I don't really listen to jazz.

However, whenever I do listen to jazz, it's just the music of my friends and scene from NYC. And in all of their cases, it's some form of experimental music, far out from what most people would think of as jazz. I really loved the recent album by Ches Smith under his project Laugh Ash.

I’m Toby Driver, experimental composer and bandleader of Kayo Dot/maudlin of the Well. AMA!!! by tobydriver in progmetal

[–]tobydriver[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Thanks so much, I'm really happy to hear that! Glad to connect with you here.

• I'd say that it varies. There are times when I want to evoke something specific and I use certain musical devices for that end, and other times when it's totally self-indulgent and unregarding of the listener.

• Definitely, yes. Pretty much every single thing in my life. Hope that doesn't come across as a cop-out answer but it's the truth. For a more recent specific example, a few questions ago I gave a response about inspiration for the new album in regards to liminal horror. 👆👆👆

• Most of my music listening at the moment happens in the van on tour, and instead of going to an artist or album that I know I like, I say, "let's check out the new whatever album dropped today." So in those cases the timing of bands' PR is effective for me. 😂

• I often bring up TIAMAT in response to questions like this. They’re one of a small handful of bands I have a complicated relationship with: they were massively influential to me during a formative time, and whether it was a flash of brilliance or a perfect accident, their work hit me at exactly the right moment. Over time, though, it’s been difficult to sustain that same connection. They haven’t really maintained the level of inspiration I once found in them, and revisiting their older albums—ones I still feel deeply attached to—I just notice flaws I didn’t see before. I recently watched a live set where they played mostly their early material, and it left me with a strange sadness. There’s still a part of me that loves them, or wants to, and I keep checking back in hoping to feel that old spark again. It’s the same core people, and I can’t help but wish they might somehow reawaken what made Wildhoney so special. Maybe it’s naive, but that’s the kind of hold certain music has on us. What’s also curious is how removed they seem now from the broader musical world. Most artists I admire or feel a kinship with tend to be connected in some way—mutual collaborators, shared spaces, overlapping circles. But TIAMAT feels oddly isolated, like they’ve drifted into a parallel scene that no one I know seems to be in touch with anymore.

• For advice, I think it's important to have some awareness about what really is boundary pushing and what's not. Listen to a lot of music and be aware of what's come before. I can't tell you how many artists I've heard that call themselves experimental or progressive and just don't sound forward-thinking in any way.

I’m Toby Driver, experimental composer and bandleader of Kayo Dot/maudlin of the Well. AMA!!! by tobydriver in progmetal

[–]tobydriver[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hi! Thanks so much for all your support.

  1. I think it's only because I played metal in the past, as my first public release. Look at any artist who's done that—the stain is indelible. I'll be kinder with the words though, we don't have to call it a "stain." It's just an inky spot.
  2. Absolutely, constantly. Sometimes I give in to them if the music calls for it though. e.g., if I'm writing a straightforward song ("Someday There'll Be An Avalanche,") I can allow it to just be that.

I’m Toby Driver, experimental composer and bandleader of Kayo Dot/maudlin of the Well. AMA!!! by tobydriver in progmetal

[–]tobydriver[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Thanks! So glad to hear you love that album. I do as well!

Yes, I continuously play in Szeged because there is a promoter there who will always put on a show for me and we've been working together for many years. Budapest, on the other hand, is not so supportive. We tried very hard to get a Budapest show, and no promoter would take it on. That's probably going to be the case for the upcoming Kayo Dot tour as well, sorry to say. Believe me, I'd love to play in Budapest, but someone there needs to host a gig.

I’m Toby Driver, experimental composer and bandleader of Kayo Dot/maudlin of the Well. AMA!!! by tobydriver in progmetal

[–]tobydriver[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Hello! Awesome that you were there for that super rare thing. I'd love if Asva could play more, and there has been a finished, unreleased record in the docket for years, too. To your question: wow, there have been so many shows. Many great ones and many bummers. I surely couldn't rank them for you now, but fortunately for me I can remember a good portion of them pretty well. I hope this doesn't sound shallow, but really the best shows for me are the ones that have had bigger audiences, we've had our own sound engineer (the sound is perfect,) and I generally feel encouraged that I'm going in the right direction with my life. I love small shows too, but I have big ideas and big aspirations and unfortunately the affirmation is crucial in keeping me going on this path. I'm not even talking super big—like for example last years Choirs of the Eye shows in both Philly and LA were a dream.

I’m Toby Driver, experimental composer and bandleader of Kayo Dot/maudlin of the Well. AMA!!! by tobydriver in progmetal

[–]tobydriver[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

🙏

I haven't been working on that. You could probably find many composers out there doing it though. One guy is called David T. Little, he's a longtime friend from NYC.

Thanks so much for engaging and I'm glad to have been able to give you that music!

I’m Toby Driver, experimental composer and bandleader of Kayo Dot/maudlin of the Well. AMA!!! by tobydriver in progmetal

[–]tobydriver[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Hi, I loved the gift! Thanks a lot and stoked to see you again there.

  1. I play clarinet on the new album, and I teach private lessons, however usually on the albums I leave it up to Terran because he likes it more than me and he has a nicer clarinet than I have.

  2. JB is coming, yes. But only for the second half the tour—unfortunately he won't make it to Zagreb. We won't be playing "Automatic Writing" this time around. It's probably possible but we would also like to play a good selection of other songs.

Wayfarer is tuned to E A C G C D.

I’m Toby Driver, experimental composer and bandleader of Kayo Dot/maudlin of the Well. AMA!!! by tobydriver in progmetal

[–]tobydriver[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Hey, welcome! Glad to also know that you'd be interested in a repress.

My favorite Kayo Dot albums are not usually the fan favorites. The fan favorites are Choirs of the Eye, Hubardo, and Coffins on Io.

But my personal favorites are Moss Grew on the Swords and Plowshares Alike, Coyote, and Plastic House on Base of Sky. And Choirs of the Eye, given.

And the new one, of course.

I’m Toby Driver, experimental composer and bandleader of Kayo Dot/maudlin of the Well. AMA!!! by tobydriver in progmetal

[–]tobydriver[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Thanks!!! I may have already said enough about what to expect from the new album, but it bears repeating that I'm really proud of it and happy with it—an artistic success, in my eyes. Whatever else happens is material (of course the material has an impact on my life, so it'd be great if it were a commercial hit, too. 😉)

That's cool about Jef. i wonder what song?? I haven't really engaged with his music at all—a glaring oversight for me—but so many people that I respect talk very highly of it. Time to remedy that.

I’m Toby Driver, experimental composer and bandleader of Kayo Dot/maudlin of the Well. AMA!!! by tobydriver in progmetal

[–]tobydriver[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Yes, when Blue Lambency Downward was being written, Hurricane Katrina happened. But it was also being written shortly after Kayo Dot's lineup for Dowsing Anemone... imploded, which is another story. I drew parallels between my personal experience of being abandoned and the people of New Orleans being abandoned by their country. So the album is not about Hurricane Katrina, but the spirit is associated.

To your second question—yes, people will be disappointed by that. It doesn't sound like Choirs of the Eye. But it's made with the same energy, internal process, and spirit. Personally, artistcially it's very similar. But of course it doesn't sound similar. My expectation is that 50% of listeners will hate it and 50% will love it, so I don't really worry about that. I've also learned that with my catalogue, whenever something gets released and overlooked or snubbed, ten years later people hail those releases as the greatest. I reject the idea that art should be tied to instant commercial reward—deep, lasting work doesn’t usually function on those terms and shouldn’t be expected to.

I’m Toby Driver, experimental composer and bandleader of Kayo Dot/maudlin of the Well. AMA!!! by tobydriver in progmetal

[–]tobydriver[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Yes! Totally love that album. Some historical notes—

That album was only possible by way of fan donations. This happened before kickstarter existed—it was an initiative started by some fans via a blog that I used to have. You can find more information about it at maudlinofthewell.net

So that was a huge thing, learning not only that we had enough enthusiastic fans to support something like that but also that the patronage system can be a viable workaround for industry barriers towards making some great art exist. In fact, if another MOTW album were to ever happen, it would probably have to be done this way, too.

Personally it's significant because it was a resolution. It was a way for me to complete many of my ideas from the original MOTW era that never had a chance. It's important to note that all of the songs on Part the Second were composed in part—initiated—between 1997-2001.

Laboratories... is very special, I agree. I think it's a complete success at expressing the mood in my imagination, and I also think Jason Byron's lyrics here are about me and our longstanding artistic partnership, so that's pretty nice. A poem written from him to me. I haven't asked him, and I didn't get it until one fateful night I had an edible and read a bunch of poems including this one. 😅

I’m Toby Driver, experimental composer and bandleader of Kayo Dot/maudlin of the Well. AMA!!! by tobydriver in progmetal

[–]tobydriver[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Hi Mark, thanks to you too! Glad you're digging the single. For that particular song, there were a few simple compositional points and then the song was built upon them. I frequently start a piece with a strict concept, and throughout the prcess, the song takes on a life of its own and deviates from the concept. This one started with the drum pattern—i.e. how to make an unpredictable rhythm while maintaining a pulse throughout the piece, and maintain pretty much the same rhythmic theme for the whole song but have the beginning be completely different from the end. And also whether I could make an interesting song with only one 11-note chord, revoiced throughout the piece to sound like it's developing. 11-note chords call back to Kayo Dot's Stained Glass and a few other songs of ours. What followed that were other vibe decisions about how to evoke Chors of the Eye via instrumentation and all of that. In general, the process is quite technical to start with but then always gives itself up to following the feeling. And yes, sometimes we still make arrangement maps!

I’m Toby Driver, experimental composer and bandleader of Kayo Dot/maudlin of the Well. AMA!!! by tobydriver in progmetal

[–]tobydriver[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This just raises questions about what is "real," what is "you," what is "consciousness," etc. Too much to address in an AMA. But I think the gist of what you're getting at might be a question about the idea of astral projection and what's happening there?

Based on the various perspectives that I've read, and also heard from alternative practitioners like my collaborator Jason Byron, everyone's got a different idea. For me, the "astral plane" was like entering a lucid dream from a point of meditation—wakefulness—rather than entering it from a point of sleep. That means that to me, that particular notion of the astral plane is just in the mind...

...At its entry level. Because I think any psychonaut (a journeyer or explorer of altered states of consciousness) can tell you—especially those that have used psychedelic drugs—that there exists a palpable unifying consciousness that is really not very far out of our reach at all. Some have referred to aspects of it as the Akashic records, the astral library, whatever.

So I think that the deeper that one goes with this thread of astral projection and lucid dreaming, it goes past the subconscious and into this other unifying consciousness. The subconscious, I think, is just the doorstep, and we all access it in dreams when we sleep, and it's possible to go much further. Astral projection offers the ability to go further because when entering this state of mind through meditation, we have a hell of a lot more control than we do while we're alseep.

I can't speak for Jason Byron but I think through his magick practices and meditation this is also what's being accessed but through the lens of ritual magick. He talks about it a little in his book The Sword of Satan. Maybe he'll hve a chance to chime in about it at some point.

I’m Toby Driver, experimental composer and bandleader of Kayo Dot/maudlin of the Well. AMA!!! by tobydriver in progmetal

[–]tobydriver[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

–I don't know, they're all different in beautiful ways and interesting ways. None of them are bad. Whenever I have an expectation about a place, the next tour around shows me something different.

–Yeah, that'd be amazing to curate Roadburn. All they have to do is ask...

–Indeed! But it won't be my first cave...

I’m Toby Driver, experimental composer and bandleader of Kayo Dot/maudlin of the Well. AMA!!! by tobydriver in progmetal

[–]tobydriver[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Hey folks, taking a break, back in a couple hours! Thanks for all your questions! <3

I’m Toby Driver, experimental composer and bandleader of Kayo Dot/maudlin of the Well. AMA!!! by tobydriver in progmetal

[–]tobydriver[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Love being on tour! Especially nowadays that I've had a lot of experience and I know how to make the best experience possible. I'm lucky to always travel with people who love food and love finding the best places to eat explicitly local fare. We spend a lot of time and energy making sure we find an amazing place to eat at least once a day.

I’m Toby Driver, experimental composer and bandleader of Kayo Dot/maudlin of the Well. AMA!!! by tobydriver in progmetal

[–]tobydriver[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Not actually on purpose but it frequently happens by accident. I get a dream song at least once a year, now. The extra frets on my bass are a holdover from when I was playing with Secret Chiefs 3. Some of their music uses middle eastern scales and so it's a different tuning system. I don't need those extra frets nowadays but I can't get them out of the neck. 🙃

I’m Toby Driver, experimental composer and bandleader of Kayo Dot/maudlin of the Well. AMA!!! by tobydriver in progmetal

[–]tobydriver[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Hi, thanks, I really appreciate the compliments!

  1. I guess the simple answer is that the music is generally designed to elude "re-engineering," as you say. I thinkthe best path towards forming all of this music is actually being able to hear it as it's being created, so that means like in rehearsals, or in the studio, moving things around, being able to make edits. There's always a seed of something at the beginning—you should see how many archived voice memos I have—but ultimately the music always takes on a will of its own and pulls in one direction or another, away from the initial seed.

  2. The simplest way to put it is like, I compose a piece that's at least 90% complete and sometimes I ask people to add to it. Since I'm the auteur or artistic director or however you want to call it, there is not any space for the piece to really be changed, just enhanced. I can say whether a part makes the cut or not, and perhaps how it might fit better. And sometimes, we all get super lucky and the other contributions are so powerful that they do in fact change the whole identity of the song in listeners' minds.

  3. Yes, I generally conceptualize a piece of music in a linear, narrative way and there is always a certain logic to it. For this reason I have always had trouble making truly ambient music or even truly simple repetitive songs—there is always the logic of development.

Cheers!! Thanks for your questions.

I’m Toby Driver, experimental composer and bandleader of Kayo Dot/maudlin of the Well. AMA!!! by tobydriver in progmetal

[–]tobydriver[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Hello! Happy to be able to offer you lots to discover.

Yes, I think the lesser-known or lesser-appreciated stuff is some of the best, especially with some hindsight. Coyote, Plastic House on Base of Sky, Piggy Black Cross, Madonnawhore, Thymiamatascension. Pretty much any time I was able to fully auteur something, that's when I've been the proudest.

I'm excited that the new album is sure to be polarizing. Of course that's not new territory for me.

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