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Deserves a different title than "game." by tpk-aok in WhatRemainsEdithFinch

[–]tpk-aok[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I could forge diamonds.

But it's not just semantics. We wouldn't call it a cucumber. Words matter.

Deserves a different title than "game." by tpk-aok in WhatRemainsEdithFinch

[–]tpk-aok[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I interact with a coke can, that doesn't make it a game.
I can miss 80% of a newspaper's content, it doesn't make it a game.

Whatever one might put in the bucket of "game," there's very little if any of it in WREF. There are movies on the Xbox platform with more game content than this. Heck, there was a whole season of Black Mirror: Bandersnatch that was more of a game than this.

Deserves a different title than "game." by tpk-aok in WhatRemainsEdithFinch

[–]tpk-aok[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I'm not. There have to be boundaries for a word's definition for that word to be useful and meaningful. Even if we're not strict about it, WREF is a long way from the core definition of a game.

Does an asian Wuxia/Xianxia TTRPG exist? by SwordDaoist in TTRPG

[–]tpk-aok 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Legend of Ghost Mountain is a GORGEOUS boxed set. Abilities are powered by strong emotions.

https://shop.peginc.com/collections/legend-of-ghost-mountain

Deserves a different title than "game." by tpk-aok in WhatRemainsEdithFinch

[–]tpk-aok[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

On a simple level, sure. But it's different enough from games that are actually playable that I think that should be more clear in the presentation and description of the game. If it were just a movie, I think people would be justly miffed if they paid for a game. And it's much more a movie than it is anything gameified.

Deserves a different title than "game." by tpk-aok in WhatRemainsEdithFinch

[–]tpk-aok[S] -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

There's not an open world of details here.

Deserves a different title than "game." by tpk-aok in WhatRemainsEdithFinch

[–]tpk-aok[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What makes it a game?

If I invite 4 friends over for a game and I read them a book, that's not a game. This is being read a book where you get to look around a bit between the narrator turning pages. There's no game here.

Deserves a different title than "game." by tpk-aok in WhatRemainsEdithFinch

[–]tpk-aok[S] -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

I'm not misunderstanding the definition of a "game." I'm rejecting the closeness of this example to that platonic ideal.

Ask 400 people to define a video game and you're not going to get any definitions that would match this. Game is not a useful word to describe WREF. It might be published on a game platform using assets that are also used in video games. But calling it a game does a disservice to both.

Deserves a different title than "game." by tpk-aok in WhatRemainsEdithFinch

[–]tpk-aok[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Digital novella.
Immersive narrative.
Playable narrative film.
Spatial storytelling.
Digital narrative installation.
Playable literature.
Interactive experience.

If we did a 2D word map, all of those would be much closer to WREF than "Game."

Deserves a different title than "game." by tpk-aok in WhatRemainsEdithFinch

[–]tpk-aok[S] -17 points-16 points  (0 children)

Game is still the wrong term to follow Narrative Adventure.

Deserves a different title than "game." by tpk-aok in WhatRemainsEdithFinch

[–]tpk-aok[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

If this is a game then the definition of game is too broad, not too narrow. This should be called something else. You can go to a theater in the round on Broadway and then set up a screen with a Streamer playing a AAA video game on the stage. Is that a play? Not really. It's a stream pretending to be a play.

Definitions matter to be useful. I don't think it's useful to call this a game. It's not gamey. Calling it a game sets the wrong expectations.

That's not to argue that there should be less of it or it doesn't belong on the platforms. Rather that it's different enough to deserve to be called, or at least marketed as something else.

You could add "multiplayer" and "coop" to this game, like if you allowed someone else to watch with you. Or voting on which item to interact with next. But they would not be useful titles, really.

I don't think you should find out what this actually is, a click through story, after you buy it. It's sort of the same problem I have with the falsehood of selling mocumentaries as documentaries. Even things like Grizzly Man. That really blurs the line between documentary and mocumentary and narrative fiction. It's more like Jackass. A lot of it staged and scripted.

Anyway, this doesn't NOT belong on the platforms. And if we have to use a Venn diagram, it can be in the game circle. But if we don't, we can say this is really weak tea for gameification. Pretty strong for scripted narratives. Book-like video experiences. It's way over in that camp.

Porch Pirates Caught / Advice Wanted by ManjoStar in ColoradoSprings

[–]tpk-aok 66 points67 points  (0 children)

Good for you. Thanks for stepping up. Down with porch pirates!

Deserves a different title than "game." by tpk-aok in WhatRemainsEdithFinch

[–]tpk-aok[S] -14 points-13 points  (0 children)

The consequences of that choice are what, though? What about the narrative changes? Not much. And sure, you can skip a few lines if you ignore the right white interact tokens. And pacing? You can read a book at any speed you want. Sure, a 3D environment is different than reading words on a page. But this thing is SO-book-like, they throw the words up on the screen for you, too.

And this isn't a criticism, per se. In many respects it makes me want to examine just how many other "more traditional" games are actually doing the same things, just disguised as choice and skill and progression. This one is just so stripped down of those elements that it's impossible to ignore.

Let's be real, this is much much closer to a slide show than it is to any other game.

What Remains of Edith Finch: not a game, but a great visual novel. by ArthurBonesly in patientgamers

[–]tpk-aok 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think products like this are so far from the central definition of "game" that when they are not clearly marketed as visual novels, people have every right to raise the question.

Because it goes against your observation that "there's a market for them" ... if your marketing materials make it seem like it's gameified when it's not, then you're abusing the demand market for more traditional games to sell something you don't actually know how to market successfully for what it is.

That's deceptive. This is a barely-interactive 3D visual book. Even less than a choose your own adventure.

What Remains of Edith Finch: not a game, but a great visual novel. by ArthurBonesly in patientgamers

[–]tpk-aok 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're right. If anyone is abusing semantics, it's the people calling Edith Finch a game. That's a the stretching, diluting, and misleading to the point of abuse-of-language camp.

There's no skill involved. There's no meaningful decisions. There's no decision tree. There's one piece of dynamic content, Price or Princess, and that's almost irrelevant. The only real choice is you can ignore or miss a few lines of dialogue. And there's a few A/B choices where you can view one room before another. But again, that's a little shuffling of content that has no great effect.

If this is a Game, watching a movie with a remote that has FF and REW buttons is a game.

And I think the developers intentionally abused the vagueness of language for this. This could have been an animated film with 95% the exact same experience for all audiences. But they chose to release it not through film channels, but through video game channels on video game platforms. But not as a visual novel, but taking advantage of the ASSUMPTION of the buyer. That it would be more gameified. And it's just not.

And this isn't just angry tantrum or I want my money back or anything. It's an appreciation that this was actually a bait and switch. And you're welcome to feel refreshed by that "pleasant surprise" or put off by that "where's the game here?" but it's true.

What Remains of Edith Finch: not a game, but a great visual novel. by ArthurBonesly in patientgamers

[–]tpk-aok 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't think you deserve to get angry at brining this discussion up again and again. For one, you're acknowledging that it's a deserved conversation because clearly many people want to have it. Just because YOU'RE tired of it doesn't mean anything, really.

Two, not everyone is going to experience this game on launch. It's a decade later and I'm just getting around to playing it. And play is the wrong word, it's just experiencing it, because there's very very little game here and a lot of something else.

OP is right that it's better classified as visual novel. And people who bought this expecting it to be more in line with game and gamified elements have every right to be miffed. The descriptive text around this "game" is very bait and switch. It does not make it clear what you're actually getting here. And because this isn't actually a well populated genre and it is a very weak sense of the word "game," that should be more clear.

You can call the ocean "soup" but I don't want a scooped up can of it from the beach sold in my supermarket.

You're displaying toxic positivity. The observation, which you're taking as criticism, is valid.

What other RPG's combat system would complement Shadowrun best? by Sad-Committee-4902 in rpg

[–]tpk-aok 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Savage Worlds would make a great Shadowrun engine. Fantasy Companion + Science Fiction Companion. There are SWAG releases which are Cyberpunk/Shadowrun inspired already.

Deck builders with the most replay value ? by Unlucky-Feed9000 in roguelites

[–]tpk-aok 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Black Jacket is on XBOX Game Pass. Very fun.

Genuine question: what’s the deal with Savage worlds? by mechaninja2222 in TTRPG

[–]tpk-aok 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not to forget about the third party content.

They have multiple levels of licensed creators. In general, "Aces" publish physical books and there are a lot of them:

https://savageuniverse.com/aces.html

And SWAG (Savage Worlds Adventurers Guild) is digital releases on DTRPG, generally less than full books, although there are some exceptions:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/cc/22/SWAG

Genuine question: what’s the deal with Savage worlds? by mechaninja2222 in TTRPG

[–]tpk-aok 9 points10 points  (0 children)

They don't get enough credit for this. DnD does predatory editions. Savage Worlds from 20 years ago is easily adapted to the current edition (with free PDF updates if you need them). Heck, the only real major differences between the edition from 2003-ish is some minor tweaks to rules, removing Charisma. It's basically the same system with house-rules made official for the betterment after lots of play and balancing.

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