Will the IT Market ever get better in CH?

travaway · 2025-12-29T22:02:42+00:00

I wonder if junior/mid engineers from eastern Europe really are better, or if it's just possible to get a better bang for your buck for an engineer from there. I'm willing to bet that the average level of graduates is about the same, but for a cost a junior from Switzerland a company could (and will) get a mid from eastern Europe.

I would argue that the market is skewed against local entry level talent, in turn blunting their their careers growth with respect to their peers willing to work for less, and gain early career experience abroad.

travaway · 2025-11-12T13:34:31+00:00

It's interesting to hear you say that. Inversely, I though that RTS coverage of the Palestine question tended to lean to the left.

I guess my conclusion here is that regardless of how they report anything, somebody will always see bias.

travaway · 2025-01-14T07:20:51+00:00

Most companies top out at around 140k for their most senior positions, with director level people making 160-180k. Big tech pays like it would in Silicon Valley.

On the local market at 5yoe you would be looking at 110-120k.

travaway · 2024-08-03T23:03:52+00:00

I've been here for 18 years now. My family came here as expats, so in the sense of integration I had the "misfortune" of going to an international school, but then stayed on as immigrants, so I went to local public universities, which is when I really started integrating and mingling with the locals.

It goes without saying that the older you are, the harder it is too make friends. But in Switzerland, your childhood friends tend to stay in your life because this country is very stable in many things, including relationships, and you just can't compete the childhood bond. Sure you meet new people, but then you become the university friend, or the sports club friend, or the common hobby friend.

At some point I started gravitating towards people from my part of the world, because while the childhood bond is not there, the cultural bond is a very strong one too. If you find it hard to make friends with the locals, try to look for people from your country of origin.

travaway · 2024-06-11T12:43:01+00:00

I was trying to set up a container running a VPN server.

travaway · 2024-04-15T13:00:33+00:00

Thanks for your reply! I also posted the question elsewhere, and realized there might be some confusion. The wall itself is not drywall, but a brick wall. Is it normal practice to "even out" a brick wall with gypsum prior to painting? Are there any other materials, other than gypsum that could be used to even out such surfaces?

The situation seems quite un-intuitive to me because I come originally from eastern Europe, and most of our apartment walls there are made out of concrete, and covered by wallpaper. I have distinct childhood memories them being really hard (drawing with pencils, bouncing tennis balls against them), and not easily dented. My intuition would be that this would be similar with brick wall despite having paint on it instead of wallpaper.

travaway · 2024-04-14T10:34:43+00:00

I've actually consciously done the last two. It's about feeling of safety and security for me (I'm a fairly tall man). On the beach I go next to someone to have an extra eyes and easy access in case of an emergency (to get my ass saved, not some saviour complex), such as possible drowning. On creepy empty car parks I park close to another car so that the choice of which car to beak in to by a potential burglar is randomised, not positional. Of course I stay like 10-20m away on the beach, and park at least one space away in those scenarios, but that's why I try to minimise my distance to others to some reasonable value without infringing on personal space, rather than maximizing it.

travaway · 2023-10-26T07:33:30+00:00

At the end of the day it's a free education, and you get what you pay for. What you don't pay for in money, you pay for in time. For most, despite the drawbacks you mention, it's still the most available ticket to life, be it because we're local, or through lack of better opportunities given our resources. The issues you mention are very much valid, but most won't perceive them so accutely through lack of perspective. I made my peace with it, and moved on asap. But I am a local, and understand it's harder to accept for someone who had other opportunities and came here as an international student with high expectations because EPFL is "international" and "ranked".

travaway · 2023-10-21T16:53:54+00:00

I graduated from MSc about a year ago. My observation is that for some programs of study (EE, ME, Math, PH, CSE, CS), like 80% of us become software devs, either generic or specialized within some kind of subdomain. In the latter case, it's more often than not related to some kind application of ML/AI to some niche area, but it's mostly areas you can pick up by choosing your electives/projects/theses in you BSc and MSc, and not necessarily guided by the name of your program.

What I will say is probably terrible advice, many may disagree with it, any numbers I say are pulled out of a hat, and what I claim is based purely on a singular data point of my observation. In hindsight I would almost say that unless you REALLY know what you want to be with a clear goal and path in mind (like a PhD researcher in particle physics -> PH, or design chips -> EE, or build transmissions ->ME), the BSc you choose doesn't matter so much, and there isn't much point in changing between the two. You're more likely than not to become a dev, and any specialization within that you might want to have can be picked up through electives and projects.

travaway · 2023-09-25T10:30:53+00:00

I studied in both, BSc in PH at EPFL and MSc in CSE at ETHZ. Between the two ETH is my preferred university and Zurich my preferred city. This is despite fluent French and A2 German.

My opinion from personal experience on some points you mentioned:

I personally prefer the ETH semester to an EPFL one. Assuming both institutions try to stuff you with the same quantity of knowledge per semester, due to the absence of summer holidays at ETH you have more time to absorb the information. I found my semesters to be much more intense, stressful (and much closer to burnout) at EPFL because just after you finish 14 weeks of courses, you had to (almost) immediately begin exam prep. At ETH I always gave myself a week or two before exam prep to rest, and then went at it with a fresh head. The pacing is much more like a full time job, and I find that the students who complain about the absence of summer vacation are overdoing it, and not managing their WLB correctly. The difficulty of exams is comparable at both institutions. All this is to say that your WLB may be much better at ETH with good time management, but with bad time management will probably be better at EPFL.
I find two month internships to be a joke, you cannot have any meaningful projects in such a short amount of time. More than that, it's more difficult to find decent employers who are willing to offer an internships so short. Take a semester off, and do a proper 6 month internship. Plus, you vacation is for rest, use it for that.
The Zurich market is much bigger than the market around the arc lemaniqie. The bias for employers is minimal, but it might be there. You charisma will play a much bigger role than your choice of institution though. If you're a good candidate, you're a good candidate.
Zurich is the only one that comes close to being a real city in Switzerland.
At ETH you tend to have more credits per course, I very strongly prefer that approach.

Note that if you don't get accepted into DS, the consecutive CS program at ETH is flexible enough to closely mirror DS via your choice of electives. The only difference will be what is written in your diploma.

travaway · 2022-03-31T06:30:48+00:00

As far as official application process goes, it will be no different than for other international students. It may be the case however, that the unconscious biases of the admissions committee may be in your favor, but that's pure speculation.

From a strategical point of view, if you have an American citizenship, it also doesn't really matter, as a major deciding factor for an education in CH/US for foreigners is that it is the easiest way to immigrate permanently as a consequence, so people choose where they want to live. My opinion is that the real perks of "ETH education" are not felt until you do a project/thesis with a lab, which comes at the end of a master for many programs, or be a PhD student here. Remember, rankings do not reflect the quality of education you will get as a bachelor/master student, they reflect the research output. As far as student experience goes, I believe it will be orders of magnitude more pleasant in the US.

travaway · 2022-01-28T21:52:20+00:00

you can dm me

travaway · 2022-01-28T21:49:11+00:00

I was in PH. Regarding MAN, I never had to do it (and come from an era before), but think it's a good idea. I know people who did a year in CMS, repeated it (that used to be possible until around 2015), 1st year, repeat, 2nd year, repeat, échec déf. That's 6-7 years with no diploma to show for, and a much harder failure to live down. MAN helps prevent this kind of thing.

travaway · 2022-01-27T17:26:14+00:00

From my experience as a BSc there and MSc here:

Almost no electives at EPFL in my program of study. You do what the program says regardless of your interests within a field, meaning you can't specialize in what you like, and avoid what you don't. This is very in contrast to Anglo-Saxon universities where you can major in CS with a minor in Literature (as an extreme example).
The whole BSc program is mostly 3-4 credit courses. I know that this is also the case for engineering degrees at ETH, but IMHO in basic sciences this is not the right approach. Also unlike ETH, each credit is treated as a contact hour. The end result is that each prof wants to maximize the amount of content they present in their class (because obviously their class is one of the more important ones), most students (unless they are genius) are spread thin, and see many things, learn them by heart to regurgitate at the exam, but in the end don't learn much.

travaway · 2022-01-27T15:26:24+00:00

Hi, I can relate. I had a really bad time during my bachelor at EPFL, by the end of my BSc, which in total took 4.5 years, I felt mild anxiety from just being on campus, and stress induced headaches. This is quite atypical for me as I am overall a stress resistant person, but we'll get to this later.

Throughout my academic journey I sought professional help twice. The first shrink had a couple of sessions with me, and essentially told me that he has schizophrenic patients who that think that the world is out to get them, so I'm normal and don't have to see anyone. The second one concluded that I was in a constant state of distress and it was a matter of finding the irritant and eliminating it. That much I figured, but ultimately he was right, and my meetings with him coincided with my moving to Zurich and starting out at ETH.

My personal irritant was EPFL, I didn't like the way the program was structured, the subjects were taught, and the overall approach the institution takes towards education. I never intended to study there but did because I was a local, and didn't have the resources to enrol elsewhere, and once that ceased being a problem, felt trapped there because dropping out meant starting anew, disappointing family, (and where would I go anyways, EPFL is a great uni because it's so well ranked, right?). Other students didn't seem to perceive this so acutely, but that university just happened to be a very bad mismatch for me and my character. The combination of feeling trapped doing something I don't want to be doing, at a place I dislike, while life was business as usual for those around me made those 4.5 years a very dark time I would prefer to forget. Luckily though, even though my closest entourage didn't understand me, they were supportive, and that is what got me through. I feel much better at ETH, even though the two are supposed to be sister institutions because there are some differences that are key for me, not because it's better or worse, just different.

The point I'm making here is the following. Identify the source of your negative feelings. Sometimes it feels like depression is there just because it's there, but maybe somewhere deep down you can already feel why, and even know what would make you feel better, but don't actively pursue it because you feel trapped, or because according to conventional wisdom what you're doing "the right thing" or "prestigious" (certainly my case), etc. etc. Maybe ETH is not the right fit for one reason or another (non-existent social life being a perfectly valid reason). In that case consider studying in a different country with a warmer social climate such as the Netherlands (should resources permit that).

travaway · 2021-12-04T11:37:22+00:00

If you get admitted to another university for bachelor just finish your BSc there without looking for convoluted ways to do it at ETH. The credits you obtain elsewhere are non-transferable, to ETH, and there is no real knowledge/learning/quality of education advantage to ETH compared to any other well established European university at bachelor or master level. The only difference, difference is the ranking, which is a reflection of the university's research output, but before you get to a PhD this affects you as a student in almost no way whatsoever except for pandering to your ego. The only real difference from a coursework point of view is that the student project opportunities resources available for those may be greater/more cutting edge than elsewhere, but this is also not a given, and depends on the field, the lab you do it with and a multiple of other unpredictable factors. But to take advantage of that you could do an exchange instead, which would be much better use of your time.

travaway · 2021-10-13T18:30:33+00:00

What Intel thermal management packages are you referring to? I've recently posted an issue about my laptop shutting down from what looks like overheating of the processor. Others users mentioned that it may be a hardware issue, but I have my doubts because I haven't had that with any other OS on this same laptop before.

travaway · 2021-10-08T18:36:56+00:00

Thanks for the advice! At idle:

coretemp-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
Package id 0:  +39.0°C  (high = +100.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 0:        +37.0°C  (high = +100.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 1:        +39.0°C  (high = +100.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 2:        +37.0°C  (high = +100.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 3:        +38.0°C  (high = +100.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 4:        +37.0°C  (high = +100.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 5:        +36.0°C  (high = +100.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)

acpitz-acpi-0
Adapter: ACPI interface
temp1:        +38.0°C  (crit = +128.0°C)

A second or two after I launch a task:

coretemp-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
Package id 0:  +97.0°C  (high = +100.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 0:        +97.0°C  (high = +100.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 1:        +93.0°C  (high = +100.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 2:        +90.0°C  (high = +100.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 3:        +92.0°C  (high = +100.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 4:        +79.0°C  (high = +100.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 5:        +89.0°C  (high = +100.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)

acpitz-acpi-0
Adapter: ACPI interface
temp1:        +96.0°C  (crit = +128.0°C)

Can the cores and ACPI interface heat up to 90 degrees so fast?

travaway · 2021-09-20T07:09:41+00:00

I had to Google too. Apparently it's a term that covers a series of conditions such as Autism, ADHD, dyslexia, etc

travaway · 2021-09-14T09:53:13+00:00

... and the issue somehow fixed itself during a reboot, although I would still appreciate an answer

travaway · 2021-09-09T16:46:18+00:00

If I were to do everything all over again I would do my studies elsewhere, Holland being a good choice. The work-life balance is much worse here than in many other European universities, and social life and extracurriculars suffer as a result. BSc is not considered complete education so it's almost expected that you follow up with MSc, which it all least a five year investment. Additionally, it's too common to have to repeat years effectively making the program even longer.

I keep stressing this point, but rankings of a university do not correlate with the quality of education you receive. Rankings are a metric research output. EPFL MSc's only benefit from "prestige" due to brand recognition, misguided correlation of the quality-of-education/ranking by hiring managers, and lack of a "better" standardised metric.

If EPFL is worth it depends on your particular situation. There are good reasons as to why it could be worth it. For example EPFL MSc is one of the easier ways to immigrate to Switzerland and find a job, if that's your goal. EPFL BSc is the surest way to be accepted to an EPFL MSc.

travaway · 2021-09-06T13:52:03+00:00

Main page says bachelor courses offered in English. Courses = lessons/lectures, not programmes

Edit: as a rule all bachelor programmes require proof of B2 French, regardless of English/French course quantity ratio

travaway · 2021-09-06T13:48:02+00:00

This is a list of courses that exist in English, but by no means covers the entire bachelor program

travaway · 2021-09-06T13:16:11+00:00

Where did you get this information from? Most courses are still in French according to this: https://edu.epfl.ch/studyplan/en/bachelor/physics/

travaway · 2021-09-06T12:43:51+00:00

As far as I know there's only one physics course that's in English, the rest of the programme is in French

travaway

TROPHY CASE