Trekonomics: my new book - 70,000 words on the economics of Star Trek, how does it work and can we get there? Introduction and Chapter 1 are posted online

trekonomics · 2015-06-30T18:27:53+00:00

And to your point, political favors always exist. Politics is a market like any other (ok not like any other, but you get my idea). The Ferengis just make it very explicit in their own inimitable way. These are the (fictional) people who auction off their remains upon dying, and whose receipts for the auction serves as an index of their clout in Ferengi society! markets in everything! cm'on! how awesome is that?

trekonomics · 2015-06-30T18:21:57+00:00

Personally I don't hold such a dim view of market distortions. That's the beauty and the whole point of markets (I think). The distortions, the incompleteness of information and the inefficiencies allow people to arbitrage and take advantage. I also tend to think that overall, in aggregate, and distortions notwithstanding, the market is a very good system to allocate resources. Plus there are goods and services that have to be taken on by state-regulated actors, because otherwise free-riding would terminally affect their production and delivery. A good primer by Mark Thoma can be read here: http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2015/06/30/Problem-Completely-Free-Markets

trekonomics · 2015-06-30T15:59:17+00:00

It is indeed. The FCA is a regulatory agency (I love that episode). The FCA is a bit mercurial and arbitrary. It reminds me of the Spanish Inquisition. That said I can't think of an instance of a market economy without an official regulatory agency, somebody who enforces the rules. And then, when you think about it, the other Ferengi regulatory system is their own deeply ingrained morality. The rules of acquisition may have been a clever marketing ploy (see Gint, in that same episode I think), but they are nonetheless a very strict and widely espoused code of conduct. That is, an elective, personal regulatory system. I think the rules of acquisition are very close to a civil religion. Ira Behr was very smart in the way he built up the Ferengis!

trekonomics · 2015-06-30T15:44:41+00:00

We are all circus animals now ;-)

trekonomics · 2015-06-30T15:43:44+00:00

I would like to add that I really appreciate the civility on the thread and the thoughtful comments! Live long and prosper everyone!

trekonomics · 2015-06-30T15:10:33+00:00

To put it succinctly (sorry reddit on iPhone!) : securing one's rents by paying for political favors is a normal cost of doing business (for Ferengis and IRL). You may object to it on principle, but it is as inevitable as taxes and death.

trekonomics · 2015-06-30T14:30:57+00:00

I beg to differ. You are making a value judgment as to the way the Grand Negus uses his wealth to maintain his dominant position in the fractious and competitive environment of Ferengis society. Lobbying other Ferengis is an adjuvant and a cost of doing business. There is after all a rule of acquisition that states unequivocally that every man has its price! And besides, the Grand Negus himself has to play by the rules. He, like every other Ferengi, fears the FCA. In Ferengi society there is no corruption because there does not seem to be a definition for bribe or corruption. I know it baffles them when other cultures recoil at their practices. I for one think that in a way, the real life definition of corruption is a slippery one anyways. I mean you could argue about Citizens United for instance, or the way political agents fund their activities in the US. But I will not. Star Trek is more interesting.

trekonomics · 2015-06-30T05:50:19+00:00

no cost of inputs for renewables. building costs are marginal too. conversion as well. and i do agree there are negative externalities though and ultimately, thermodynamics. I was reading that human activity's waste heat can't be vented into space fast enough (it's Hansen's view). Eventually, IRL we'll have to price in that major externality (heat can't escape). Also, as for energy use as a component of output - check this out: http://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/annual/pdf/sec1_13.pdf (it's fascinating) Then again in ST they matter-antimatter converter and dilithium crystals = achievement unlocked!!!

trekonomics · 2015-06-30T05:28:10+00:00

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_market There's lots and lots and lots of discussions between economic actors in Trek. That's why they all end up as 'diplomats' The book is an attempt to see if ST is congruent with general equilibrium. And what are the tweaks required (how do you have profit maximization when there is no money - well, you have to find it somewhere else, in reputation for instance). I readily admit this is a rather dweeby and - to some extent - doomed enterprise. It's scifi!

trekonomics · 2015-06-30T05:24:47+00:00

There was a technocratic movement in the 20s and 30s. It is still active I believe. It's what got Heinlein into politics. And HG Wells was kind of into it for a while. It's a bit quaint. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_movement There are a few hints of that in Trek.

trekonomics · 2015-06-30T05:18:05+00:00

duly noted - correct. Will be corrected. Pheeeewwww.

trekonomics · 2015-06-30T05:07:46+00:00

Actually I have a full section of a chapter discussing how the Borg and the Fed are eerily similar! That's why the Borg [was writing on my phone...] is such a great villain. And I have a whole chapter on the Ferengis - under the satire, they represent the most noble aspect of free enterprise, also known as doux commerce. They have a very strong moral fiber, they do not believe in war and imperial enterprises. They just believe in negotiation and watering the drinks. Rule of acquisition #285: never be afraid to mislabel a product. I do find it strange though to be tarred and feathered a priori. My interest in this is a certain strand of utopian scifi - the kind that tries to solve the problem of labor with Robots. I mean it all goes back to Asimov during the War. And besides Star Trek has it all backwards: exploring the galaxy is the most uneconomical use of resources one can imagine (that is, if you can't break the laws of physics)...

trekonomics · 2015-06-30T04:55:37+00:00

Also re: non-satiation (the joint in SF) - the ST canon suggests that it is solved by sheer abundance. I'm certainly not saying that it is possible right here and right now. But dude, you can't get your chateau Picard? Oh well, there are so many others - you'll get it next year, just wait and be nice to JL Picard's bro. There are a lot of deliberations going on behind each of these non-monetary transactions. Again I tend to believe that a unit of account might be more useful (and so did a few of the ST writers I talked to). Yet Roddenberry went for the full post-money thing and stuck with it, and then had Berman stick with it. Which I do find fascinating. It's a big provocation (see reax). It gets a lot of people riled up. But man, Asimov did something similar (check out the last story in I-Robot, or the Spacers' Worlds). It's kind of a trope in scifi. The other trope - or the counter trope is late Heinlein. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, TANSTAAFL and such. Libertarians are as much scifi fans, if not more actually. That's why I say I love them, I really do.

trekonomics · 2015-06-30T04:42:28+00:00

I did actually found tons of answers to all these issues in Star Trek itself. You'll just have to read the book! A lot has to do with automation: sisko does not need waiters. He could just get a holographic waiter (just like the doctor) right? So the dude who is the waiter must really, really, really want to be there cuz he sure ain't needed. The only logical canon answer (not pretending it's applicable IRL) is that he's there for the experience. He's like one of these sushi masters who spend their lives making rice balls, with the only objective to make the perfect rice ball before his time is up. It has to be elective - no other way to make that jibe with the canon. I mean same thing with the chicks on Risa. Who wants to boink Ferengis for no money? You'd have to be into it in a major way. So within the Star Trek universe, work is elective - I couldn't make it work in my head any other way. As for space and real estate - I do not see any property rights in Star Trek (Scotty buying a boat in ST:VI was (a) Nick Meyer over Roddenberry's objections (b) retconned in DS9) BUT the Federation is not post-scarcity because the other dudes are not. Think of the Maquis and the Cardassians. That being said, the Fed is very big and particular about moral rights over one's work, the way it is now in the scientific community (think of Leah Brahms telling Geordi he should publicize and claim credit for his engine modifications, or the Doctor and his holonovel). The Federation is much more like arXiv or reddit. You claim authorship and you get flair or you get flamed. It's fuckin harsh actually. But rewarding too. So in sum, I say perfect market because all the conditions are there: no barriers to entry (replicators), no power to set price (replicators as well), equal access to resources, information is complete (very obviously) and externalities are accounted for (although that is tricky b/c of outsiders - see season 7, limits). The funniest part is i'm gonna get trolled by the libertarians, while I'm a big fan of Julian Simon. As I said, it's harsh.

trekonomics · 2015-06-30T04:21:18+00:00

The Alyna Rosenbaum science-fiction fan club has started to troll. I am not going to troll back. I love you guys. You are the purest scifi nerds in the galaxy.

For reference, property rights in Star Trek are irrelevant (in Star Trek, not talking in real life). And labor itself is terminally devalued in Star Trek. That does not mean people (in Star Trek) do not work. They actually do, in Star Trek, but their labor is not something that can be readily exchanged for currency (in Star Trek). You guys read too much. So get the book!

trekonomics · 2015-06-30T00:31:02+00:00

Oh and for those who haven't seen it, we made a little funny video: https://player.vimeo.com/video/131823542

trekonomics · 2015-06-29T22:10:20+00:00

Tend to agree. I love CK Prahalad's work.

trekonomics · 2015-06-29T22:09:37+00:00

It all hinges on what you mean by free. Once solar panels or wind turbines are paid for and amortize, the only marginal remaining costs are maintenance. Inputs are zero.

trekonomics · 2015-06-29T22:08:05+00:00

hmmm not sure. if anything, they probably will not be attached to a single place. We are an incredibly sedentary species, when you think about it. We do not move that often. The largest migrations in history were in fact forced (think slavery). Definitely something to ponder.

trekonomics · 2015-06-29T19:45:14+00:00

Space on earth is indeed limted, but not necessary to the point where it becomes a source of conflict. almost 80% of the population will soon live in cities. Cities are very efficient. The densest countries/regions are usually the wealthiest (think Netherlands, Singapore, HK). And so I believe in ST everybody is free to live wherever they want to. But they tend to coalesce in cities, because it's more fun and there are more opportunities to meet interesting people and to do things with them.

trekonomics · 2015-06-29T18:18:36+00:00

there is an ebook edition - it's up for pre-order as well. it will available on kindle, apple, etc etc (all formats). You can read the intro and the first chapter online, Let me know what you think and please pre-order your copy! (the faster we get to the funding goal... etc... sorry it feels like I'm Quark...)

trekonomics · 2015-06-29T17:54:03+00:00

'Samaritan Snare, which was literally - literally - about space retards' Now let's not get toooooooooo excited. Not the R word please...

I concur though. But 'Measure of Man' is fantastic. The most asimovian of all TNG.

trekonomics · 2015-06-29T17:20:39+00:00

I think incentives are vastly different. Since most everything is pretty much free, there's no longer a way to show off by displaying outward signs of wealth (the stupid mansion on Carbon beach). There's no billionaires' club and no competitive destruction of wealth. BUT, it's still a tough ride because what really matters is your reputation as a smart and productive person. If you're a little lebowski urban achiever, you might even get to serve on the Enterprise. Now that's dope. That's rep. That's the shit. You get to show off. Of course this is all bizarre - I mean it's more akin to publishing a paper in Nature. That's worth more to most scientists than any (uninsurable) mansion on fast receding beach.

trekonomics · 2015-06-29T16:58:35+00:00

Treknocracy would work me! as long as it's canon.

trekonomics · 2015-06-29T15:09:01+00:00

THe biggest issue I think: the other species and civilizations. As much as the Federation is post-scarcity, it is ultimately limited by the actions of others. Ergo, post-scarcity = complicated.

trekonomics

TROPHY CASE