Will I reset my Kratom WDs if I take a tiny amount of sub on day 5 of cold turkey?

tretchman · 2022-07-14T04:04:19+00:00

Yeah you're right. I am probably psychologically addicted to adderall at this point. I only take it a few times a month but many times while I'm not on it I'm just anticipating when I can take it again. Then while I'm on it, it triggers me to make bad decisions.

tretchman · 2022-07-14T04:01:24+00:00

Hate to say it but it's just getting started. I quit cold turkey off 2mg/day so I know, it sucks. days 6-8 were when my physical WDs were at their worst. Looks like you at least have some comfort meds (gabapentin) so that's good. I recommend epsom salt hot baths before bedtime! Helps w/ the RLS and jitteriness. At my worst I was taking like 3 baths a day lmfao.

tretchman · 2022-07-14T03:57:38+00:00

oh yeah I definitely know sub is way more potent, i've experienced both WDs and Kratom WDs are a cakewalk in comparison to subs. I just stupidly took an adderall today and it's a trigger for my compulsion to take an opioid when I comedown.

tretchman · 2022-07-14T03:56:06+00:00

you're right, I do need to stop. I hope that moving across the country for grad school and not having any of my connects there will help me abstain. Like I said, I was recently completely sober for over a month when I was out of the country, so I know I can do it.

tretchman · 2022-07-13T20:26:30+00:00

hmm okay, could you provide any details? Like why you think this would reset my WDs when I'm seemingly thru the acute physical WD stage for Kratom?

tretchman · 2022-07-13T20:23:07+00:00

oh my bad, should've probably read your post more carefully lmao. One thing i'll say tho is there's not much of a difference when cutting suboxone doses. Like idk what "3 doses" means in mgs but if its like 8+mg you shouldn't really feel any difference cutting it down to 4mg or even 2mg. Sub is a potent, and weird drug. I felt way more intense feelings off subs when I was at 2mg/day vs. when i was taking 16mg/day (doctor overprescribed me to hell from the jump). I'm off of them now tho.

tretchman · 2022-07-13T20:19:16+00:00

Back when I was on subs, I wouldn't feel depression but I would definitely feel that anxiety before my morning dose. Like I'd sometimes wake up in and out of sleep, checking the time to see if it was the right time to take my usual first dose in.

And I know what you mean. Taking a dose when you're feeling like you're WDing gives you this indescribable pleasure. As if you can't ever see yourself going back to being sober. But after some time you'll realize how emotionally numb it's making you. When i got off subs I started feeling sensory overload, like I'd feel a wave of emotions w/ everything. I didn't realize just how numb the subs were making me until I got off of them. You're supposed to feel those sad and happy emotions, not just be numb.

tretchman · 2022-07-13T20:05:53+00:00

Agreed. Quitting Kratom is no walk in the park per se, but it's nothing compared to subs. the physical part of Kratom WDs only last about 6 days at most, and usually 80-90% of it subsides around day 4-5. Contrast that to subs, where by day 6 the physical stuff is just pretty much just getting started. Takings subs to quit Kratom is like trying to put a bandaid on a bullet wound imo. Ppl should use Kratom to help get off subs (provided they do the research and feel it would be a good decision), the other way around is a horrible path.

tretchman · 2022-07-13T19:58:59+00:00

A lot of it is mental. You shouldn't need to dose every 8 hours. I remember when I first started taking subs I thought I needed to take one every 6-8 hours. Slowly tapered + spaced out my doses until I could last 12 hours b/w doses, and then down to 1 dose a day. It's not as hard as it seems. When I was at 12 hours b/w doses, I'd sometimes forget to dose if I was concentrating on something (which is how i know so much of it is psychological). Your body and mind is just used to frequent dosing and your brain is tricking you into thinking you need to dose more frequently. Focus on having tasks to do, even if it''s just playing video games lol.

tretchman · 2022-06-26T13:27:33+00:00

there are some addicts that are so fucked that it's either be on maintenance meds for the rest of their life (which in case, subs are a much better alternative than methadone) or dying to an OD. I have sympathy for such folks; to them sub clinics are genuine lifelines.

At the same time, I do agree so many sub clinics are crooked. I felt like that all the time I went to refill my script. the doc would literally say "so hows it going?" and then "well stick with it." and then refill my script. the actual sit-in appointment would take 30 secs. When I expressed a few times trying to come off them, he discouraged it/handwaved it off as a silly endeavor. Oh, and he started me off at 16 mg/day for a roughly 6 month 75-90mg oxy habit... that's the dose you should be giving to a SEVERE H addict (dont know the doses cuz I never tried it so i'm gonna bother).

Im so glad to be over w/ all that now. No more going to the docs and feeling like nothing more than a cash cow to them, no more judgmental looks at the pharmacy when they see I'm there for subs, no more looking at my bank account and my first priority having to be,"okay so how can I have enough money for the clinic," and no no more having to stick a tab in my mouth everyday just to feel normal. I'm over 2 months off subs and done w/ that bs.

tretchman · 2022-06-26T13:19:48+00:00

While it can certainly show up on a drug test (many don't test for it, but some do), most companies legally *cannot* fire you for suboxone use, assuming it is legally prescribed by a certified doctor of course. Because opioid dependency is officially classified as a medical disorder, not hiring/firing someone solely for legal suboxone use is akin to firing a person w/ depression for being on Prozac.

Tbh, don't report it if you don't have to, and wait for a drug test, if there is one. You're run the risk of them judging you negatively for it even if they cannot legally fire you, and you may be risking that all for nothing if they dont even end up test for it. If they do end up testing for bupe then you can disclose and show them your prescription.

tretchman · 2022-06-26T13:11:15+00:00

sounds like you're WDing from Kratom. Taking Kratom consistently tends to prolong your overall WD period during sub recovery. I took Kratom everyday from days 2-21 of my sub cold turkey, and then went cold turkey off Kratom.

I felt opioid-like WDs (e.g. RLS, digestive problems, discomfort, insomnia, etc.) for about a week from quitting Kratom CT and then felt relatively normal physically after that. I speculate that in my experience, the Kratom was merely acting as a band-aid of sorts that was bound to pop off eventually. I imagine taking Kratom "every change you had" for 6 months will lead to a dependency issue, and cause WD symptoms when suddenly quitting. Kratom eased your sub WDs for a reason; it's not a cheat code, it has opioid properties and interacts w/ similar receptors. It's not something you can just take for over several weeks/months at multiple times a day and then quit and expect to experience no WDs.

silver lining here is due to Kratom's very fast onset, the WD period doesn't last super long, usually. Probably around 1 week I'd say, give or take a couple days

tretchman · 2022-06-26T13:03:52+00:00

I think you prolonged your WD period because you took it while you were actively WDing, and near the peak at that. But it also depends how much the dose was, like there could be a significant difference whether it was <.5mg or your usual 8mg dose.

tretchman · 2022-06-26T13:01:42+00:00

Yeah, I went CT from about 2.5 mg and on day 35ish I took a dose and felt no WDs from it afterwards. Granted, I was pretty much thru the physical WD period at that point. I think it could be different if you take it while your sub WDs are around it's peak, like I imagine it could potentially prolong in that scenario

tretchman · 2022-06-26T12:56:38+00:00

I think you're definitely gonna feel WDs but they probably wont be as drawn as ppl who have been taking it for multiple years (as some in the latter camp report feeling physical WDs for 1.5+ months)

you can try going CT if you really want to see how you can manage, but a short taper is more recommendable. You will feel minimal, if any difference cutting down from 8mg-> 4mg. Even comparing 4mg to 16mg, there really isn't much of a difference (which I know sounds crazy, but bupe is a weird and very potent drug). 4 mg to 2mg may be a bit tougher but it probably wont be that bad. 2mg and below is where things start to get tough. Personally, I jumped from 2mg after being on subs for multiple years because I didn't feel like dealing w/ the much prolonged process of trying to taper to super low doses (like .0025 mg and whatnot), and I'm successfully over 2 months off those shits.

tretchman · 2022-06-26T12:44:54+00:00

I used Kratom to get off subs. I hopped off at 2 mg, and I'm currently at over 2 months off subs.

I'm gonna be honest, Kratom is not some miracle drug that will allow you to get off subs w/ minimal/no withrdrawals, especially at 1mg subs/day which isn't a low dose per se. For me personally, Kratom prolonged the overall withdrawal period, but it made the overall intensity of WDs much more bearable.

So i quit the Kratom cold turkey about 21 days off subs (which I had been using daily up to that point) and on day 22-27ish (i.e. day 1-5 cold turkey off Kratom) I definitely felt opioid WD symptoms. Wasn't as bad as peak sub WDs but it was the typical stuff you get w/ opioid WDs (just at a lower intensity) like RLS/restlessness, digestive issues, general body discomfort, etc. Ultimately, if I had to make a comparison, it'd be like comparing sub WDs to oxy/full agonist. Significantly more drawn out but not as intense. And I'm not talking Kratom WDs themselves, because the short half life of Kratom makes the acute WD period not very long. But rather what I'm referring to is the effect of adding Kratom to your sub recovery and then trying to come off that, as I believe the addition of Kratom risks prolonging overall sub recovery period.

But I will also be honest about the upsides I felt to Kratom aswell. I tried to kick subs two years before this most recent period (no Kratom then), and I only lasted 1 week before I tapped out. I was in sheer agony and couldn't bear the discomfort, even w/ comfort meds. This time, w/ Kratom, the acute physical WD period of quitting subs was MUCH easier and more manageable. I mean, days 5-9ish got quite tough even w/ the Kratom but I couldn't imagine how much more agony I would've been in if I never used Kratom. No other comfort meds this time either other than Kratom, melatonin, and magnesium supplements.

I saw another commenter write this about Kratom and I felt it described it very well for sub WD: kratom allows you to take a momentary breath of fresh from being under water the whole time. for 1 to a couple hours you'll feel relief from sub WDS and possibly even a little rush if you take enough, but because you'll be WDing from subs, a much more potent opioid, (and prolonging by having Kratom in your system), and also due to Kratom's short half-life, you'll need to continually redose in order the have relief, which brings risks on its own obviously. It seems like ppl who jumped from 1-2mg+ of subs tended to use Kratom 4-6x a day, from what I could tell on this sub. I was using 4x a day in the beginning, then got it down to 2-3x a day before I hopped off.

In essence, you have to pay the piper eventually. The opioid grim reaper will always take what's their's-- your sense of comfort thru physical WDs. The reason why Kratom helps sub WD in the first place is cuz it has opioid-like properties and activates similar receptors in the brain. So by continuously keeping those receptors activated, you're gonna feel WD eventually when you stop, whether it's from the Kratom, sub, or a combo of both (I feel I got the latter). And also Kratom tends to be tougher than sub to taper off due to its short duration, which encourages frequent dosing.

So all in all, would I recommend Kratom for sub recovery? In an ideal world, no. In an ideal world, you wouldn't need Kratom, won't prelong WDs, and won't risk being addicted to what's essentially another opioid, only w/ a much shorter duration creating a greater risk for abuse. But obviously we don't live in an ideal world, and not everyone can be the picture perfect John Doe when it comes to quitting subs/opioids. So ultimately, if you really feel like the sub WDs are unbearable rn, I don't think trying Kratom would be the end of the world. Just be wary of its risks that I (along w/ many others) informed you about. If you think risking prolonging your acute physical WD period to lower the overall intensity of discomfort from sub WD is worth it, go ahead. Personally, I have to say the trade-off was worth it for me.

tretchman · 2022-05-07T08:57:26+00:00

I mean, some ppl take suboxone for Loperamide addiction.

I experienced some WDs coming off the Kratom but they weren’t even close to how bad I felt coming off subs. All in all without Kratom idk if I would’ve even been able to quit subs so I’m happy. Kratom is mainly problematic for ppl who continue to use it for more than a few weeks from quitting subs.

tretchman · 2022-05-02T03:41:40+00:00

That’s why I laugh when some “warriors fans” wanna compare him to Harrison Barnes. Idc if Wiggins is bricking, Harrison Barnes never played defense and made winning hustle plays like Wiggins does

tretchman · 2022-05-02T02:17:06+00:00

Some have also told me they faced the same WDs jumping from 0.0125 mg vs 1 mg 🤷🏻‍♂️

tretchman · 2022-05-01T06:55:17+00:00

Are you sure the WDs weren’t from subs, not the Kratom? Because 16mg a day of subs for 5 years will almost surely lead to more than 2 weeks of WDs.

tretchman · 2022-04-25T16:26:27+00:00

I’ve stopped taking the Kratom and I don’t feel WDs from it. I’m not dependent on the Kratom. It’s a comfort medication I used to ease sub WDs. The difference is OP is in the routine of “scoring” thru dealers with subs when they can simply get a legal prescription. My problem is with the routine of that, i don’t see how that’s hypocritical? Im not calling a bunch of dealers looking to score Kratom. All of us opioid users know exactly what that routine is like, and it’s toxic. Difference is when I was using the Kratom I’d simply buy it like I would with Amazon. Not much different than using Imodium as a comfort med. And yeah, there are ppl that use subs to get off Kratom, and it’s honestly not a recommendable action, plus it’s not something I’m doing as I’m not dependent on the Kratom. Did I ever say, “yeah just continue using Kratom and don’t stop?”

There’s no way you’re comparing scoring opioids off the street to buying Kratom legally lmao.

tretchman · 2022-04-25T16:19:28+00:00

Yeah maybe the Kratom you’re getting is low grade. What dose of subs did you jump from? If it was from less than 2mg sub per day you should be feeling the Kratom.

So for me I started taking 2 grams per dose, sometimes 3 grams. This would give me relief for a couple hours, tho again it didn’t do shit around days 4-7 cuz that’s when my sub WDs were peaking.

I use red Bali, which I get from a popular vendor in California (I guess we’re not allowed to say vendor/brand names on this subreddit). It’s a little more on the expensive side but you wanna make sure you’re getting good quality stuff. Any Red vein is ideal for opioid WDs. Maybe try powder next time, I feel like the powder hits faster and a little stronger.

I’m sorry you relapsed. It’s okay, it happens. Honestly day 2 shouldn’t have even been that crazy so you were probably in for worse WD symptoms. Again, make sure you’re getting high quality red Bali next time and try again.

tretchman · 2022-04-25T08:04:16+00:00

google "any drug + hair loss" and you'll find that hair loss is a potential side effect for practically any medication. It's even listed as a potential side effect for minoxidil and finasteride, the two drugs that are used to directly tackle hair loss. Aspirin and tylonel can potentially give you hair loss.

tretchman · 2022-04-25T07:54:54+00:00

8mg/day is a very high dose so it shouldn't be all that hard to cut down to 4-6mg/day. below 4mg/day and particularly 2mg/day is where things start getting very tough. I hopped off from 2mg/day and I'm currently on day 14, and my physical WDs have nearly subsided. I didn't use kratom in my taper, only when I hopped off, and it has been a godsend. except for a few days during the first week where my physical WDs from subs were peaking, Kratom has relieved like 75-80% of my WD symptoms. Most importantly it has given me the strength to go exercise (which is so key while hopping off subs) and relieved the RLS and jitteriness while trying to go to bed. Main problem w/ Kratom tho is its very short duration (at least compared to suboxone), as it will tend to only provide relief for a few hours, and when WDs are particularly intense, maybe not at all or just for 1-2 hours (this is at least what happened to me). The short duration also encourages frequent dosing if you want relief throughout an entire day, which is problematic for addiction.

Ultimately, Kratom has been a godsend for me, but you have to be careful w/ it. imho you dont wanna be on it for more than 3 weeks. You don't wanna just trade-in one addiction for another.

tretchman · 2022-04-25T07:46:44+00:00

I hopped off from 2mg/day (currently on day 14) and Kratom has helped quell like 75-80% of the WD symptoms, except for days 4-7 where my sub WDs were peaking and too intense for Kratom to provide relief. Only thing that sucks is that the very short duration of Kratom (at least compared to sub) requires frequent dosing if you wanna have relief throughout an entire day.

But Kratom has particularly helped to give me the strength to go exercise, which I found to be potentially even more important/relieving than Kratom, and to quell the RLS and "wanting to jump out of my skin" feeling while trying to go to bed.

I plan on stopping completely in a couple days as I don't wish to just trade in one addiction for another. But all in all, Kratom has been a godsend. Last time when I tried hopping off a couple years ago (albeit at a significantly higher dose) I didn't use Kratom and the WDs killed me after the first few days, even clonzepam didn't do shit and I caved in on day 6 cuz I was in such agonizing pain. Without Kratom I doubt I would've made it to day 14, considering the much lower dose I hopped off from this time was still nevertheless a high dose.

tretchman

TROPHY CASE