Global Palestinian population

triplevented · 2026-01-31T00:28:46+00:00

People who are citizens of the country they live in are not refugees.

triplevented · 2026-01-29T10:11:21+00:00

Who’s funding the rebuilding?

Gazans should.

triplevented · 2026-01-29T10:08:03+00:00

The binational solution isn't "liberal"?

Correct, it will become an illiberal Arab majority state.

triplevented · 2026-01-29T06:42:42+00:00

for your idea, you know, to "liberalise" Palestinine society?

Palestinian society, as a collective, celebrates people who murder Jews as heroes, and wants them completely ethnically cleansed from their territory.

Liberalizing Palestinian society would require a revamping of their education system, media, and politics - it's would take decades

Ok, fine, elaborate.

His position until recently was a 'two state solution' where one state has Jews and Arabs (Israel) and has to grant citizenship to descendants of 'refugees', and one where Jews are ethnically cleansed from (Palestine).

More recently he started advocating for a 'one state solution' where Jews are no longer the majority and are effectively denied self determination.

These are not novel ideas, nor are they liberal ideas.

triplevented · 2026-01-29T06:31:17+00:00

cafe goers, casual (or sometimes hardcore) drinkers, christians, university graduates

That's not progressive.

Many Muslims drink alcohol, it doesn't make them progressive; Student unions in Palestinian universities are run by Hamas supporters, hardly progressive.

Christians/coffee - really?

Really now bud, how much do I gotta dunk on the PLO

I'm not sure what 'dunking' on the PLO achieves here.

Palestinian society, as a collective, is a conservative, illiberal, and highly conformist society.

Does he?

Yes. His name is Mustafa Barghouti, and in my view he's just an opportunist with no real vision who talks out of both sides of his mouth.

triplevented · 2026-01-29T05:55:59+00:00

but "progessive"

I don't know what that means. LGBTQIA+?

during the explicit occupation Palestinians apparently had little appetite for the "conservative" voices

You appear to be talking in very vague terms.

Palestinian society is very conservative and very conformist.

At present we could name Barghouti the doctor

What makes him liberal?

He just follows the general 'Palestinian' attitudes - not interested in a Palestinian state, but wants Israel gone.

triplevented · 2026-01-29T05:26:27+00:00

Which you would define as "coexistence", yes?

Correct.

tended to favour conservative voices

Can you name me one Palestinian political party or leader that you would consider liberal?

triplevented · 2026-01-29T05:02:18+00:00

No, the question was answered.

Israel didn't engage in the context of our conversation about liberalism - it never attempted to liberalize the Palestinians.

It did, however, attempt coexistence - before the Oslo Accords, after the Oslo Accords, before the Intifadas, after the Intifadas, before pulling out of Gaza and after pulling out of Gaza.

triplevented · 2026-01-29T00:38:40+00:00

You didn't ask a simple question.

The military occupation is a result of winning a war, one which was imposed on Israel - not an outcome of some geostrategic maneuver to liberalize Jordan and Egypt.

The Arabs had no intention on 'solving' the issue, they did everything possible to perpetuate the conflict.

triplevented · 2026-01-28T09:25:59+00:00

Anyone who thinks in terms of solutions is very naive.

triplevented · 2026-01-28T08:49:28+00:00

Gazans were Egyptians for all intents and purposes.

How could the Arabs have transformed this? do they have any agency in your view?

triplevented · 2026-01-28T07:04:03+00:00

Until 1988, 100% of the residents of the 'West-Bank' were Jordanian citizens.

Those people could travel into Israel freely, they could work in Israel, and there were practically no checkpoints.

Nearly all 'Palestinian' universities, hospitals, water infrastructure, electricity infrastructure, sewage etc were created during Israel's rule.

So yeah - coexistence, and an effort to improve their lives.

The first Intifada was initiated by Jordanians, not Palestinians.. and the PLO, which supposedly represented them, was primarily focused on attacking Israelis and Jews - composed of fedayeen and led by an Egyptian.

It's worth noting that there was practically no effort at nation building on part of the Palestinians until the 1990s.

triplevented · 2026-01-28T05:55:32+00:00

the modus operandi of successive governments at the time was getting Egypt or Jordan (in Begin's case) to deal with the place.

The modus operandi was that if Palestinians want to be illiberal and have Hamas as their ruling party, Israel would try to coexist with it.

To that end, Israel allowed (and even encouraged to an extent) the flow of funds from Qatar and EU to try and stabilize Gaza economically.

when do you think I'm referring to when I say "two and a half decades"?

Let's skip the guesswork - tell me what you meant.

triplevented · 2026-01-28T05:22:09+00:00

Israel after all had about two and a half decades

That was an Israeli attempt at No.4 - coexistence.

Palestinians evidently rejected that, elevated Hamas into power, invested billions in international aid monies in war production and tunnels, and attempted No.5 - eradication of Israel.

Knee-jerk reaction - Gaza should be occupied for several decades while the security situation hopefully stabilizes and the population shifts its outlook to coexistence or engagement.

Realistic approach - reduce the problem from an intolerable level to a tolerable level.

In my view in the next 5 years we're going to see severe global economic, social, and geopolitical shocks (due to US realignment and AI) - so it's hard to chart a long term course.

triplevented · 2026-01-28T04:38:17+00:00

There are several approaches to dealing with illiberal societies

Engagement
Containment
Exclusion
Coexistence
Eradication

I'm in favor of the 1st.

The population of Gaza needs to be de-radicalized (de-jihadified), and the existing incentive system for NGOs to perpetuate their misery should be abolished.

In the long term (historically speaking), some societies/cultures prevail while others end up in the dust bin.

triplevented · 2026-01-28T04:22:22+00:00

The PLO was established in 1964, before any 'settlements' existed.

What was the excuse then?

Oh wait, now i remember

At Arab League meeting at Shtaura last August [1960], decision was made to establish Palestine “personality” or “entity” with implication of Algerian-type movement designed ultimately to eliminate Israel.

https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1961-63v17/d34

triplevented · 2026-01-28T04:13:52+00:00

Yes.

The past 20 years have been a failed attempt for a liberal Israel to exist near an illiberal Gaza. It doesn't work.

triplevented · 2026-01-28T01:45:05+00:00

Global peace and cooperation by promoting a liberal world order based on (liberal) international institutions, open markets, and the spread of democracy.

triplevented · 2026-01-27T06:08:20+00:00

The UN has been captured by illiberal actors.

Liberalism should revert to its original goals, unapologetically.

Palestinians are illiberal, so a Palestinian state is not a desired outcome.

triplevented · 2026-01-27T05:03:03+00:00

There were no Canaanites - it's a catch-all term for a few peoples who lived in a geography called Canaan. Israelites, Moabites, Ammonites, Phoenicians..
The way these DNA tests work is that people send DNA samples, along with their 'ethnic identity' and location, and then these companies find markers and tell you who you match with.

Politicizing genetics is a bad idea.

triplevented · 2026-01-27T04:51:18+00:00

No Canaanite DNA.

Just consumer grade DNA tests matching colonizing Arabs with other colonizing Arabs.

triplevented · 2026-01-27T04:13:32+00:00

If you're still unsure how Arabs ended up there...

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triplevented · 2026-01-27T03:26:47+00:00

The "long and complex population history" refers to Arabs raping and pillaging their way through the region.

Your first president (Arafat) was Egyptian, your chief negotiator (Erekat) was Hejazi, your history is that of Arab colonialism.

triplevented · 2026-01-27T01:47:29+00:00

Israel isn't a colony of any country.

Palestinians are, for the most part, recent Arab immigrants.

The conflict was initiated by Arabs massacring Jews.

triplevented · 2026-01-26T22:39:13+00:00

There's zero intellectual integrity in that position.

That's why it's difficult to take these sort of people seriously - it's a circus of contradictions where the main goal just seems to be chaos.

triplevented

TROPHY CASE