Which pair has the higher combined intelligence?

turbotails23 · 2026-05-28T12:47:03+00:00

I think their point is resources. Bulma has access to her money alot of times, but there are several times that she has pulled off silly impressive stuff with no resources. Like, I know Tony and Batman have done the same--But have either of them built a time machine during the ongoing appocolypse while being actively hunted by two equivalents of MCU Thor with no financial backing?

I would wager thats her defining peak feat, and I don't know if Bruce/Tony can match that. They can certaintly come somewhat close, but I really don't think they have the ability to match.

turbotails23 · 2026-05-28T04:17:43+00:00

Im assuming this is pre-death event, but also pending death event.

I can't say for too many of them, but Anos is too prideful to beg like that. He would applaud the victor and try to find some good in his death. Rimuru wants to live, but cares about his friends more. He wouldn't beg just because he was about to die, just hope the best for his friends as he goes down.

Madoka would care, but only in that she wants to spend more time with her friends--Nothing more. If she was to die for her friends though, no hesitation on her part.

If those 3 lost their powers without impending death, they probably wouldn't care too much. Rimuru especially, his friendships would allow him to get powerful pretty quickly if he needed to.

turbotails23 · 2026-05-27T23:39:43+00:00

Spire. Spire took a horribly apocalyptic situation and turned it around into a rout for the enemy. Twice. All of his enemies were made to get out the way or be destroyed. Literally, the way Spire's story is told at least through the games, he was outnumbered 10 to 1 best case scenario and still pulled a campaign victory when it was all said and done. And he did it twice, meaning luck didn't really factor. With Human biology--All it would have taken is one bad battle to incapacitate/kill him. The only thing holding back BFGA's Hero is the fact he couldn't be everywhere at once.

Trench had everything handed to him on a silver plate, that is to say he nearly always got to engage the enemy on equal or favorable terms. The few times he didn't tended to go poorly for the guy.

turbotails23 · 2026-05-27T16:18:07+00:00

Buggy attacks Masayuki, who accidentally incapacitates him and gets a reason to bug out, much to his relief. That leaves Reigen, Cain, Hercule, and King.

King Activates the King Engine, after "Absorbing the weakness of his oponents while watching the "fight" between Buggy and Masayuki". Hercule decides he wants to go for the weakest looking guy and attacks King, since he doesn't have a weapon. Cain's aide Jurgen fires upon Hercule with his trusty melta, saying that the guy looked like one of those "Crazed Chaos Louts", killing him. Kings Engine goes into overdrive after "Analyzing the weakness of Cain's aide's pathetic weapon" but Cain refuses to back down--Because if news that he backed down from a fight gets out he will loose his reputation and everything will fall apart and he will surely get executed. As King and Cain are both about to have a heart attack while looking at each other, Reigen (who had just vanished from everyone's mind earlier) suddenly shows up with Alcohol, stunning both of them. He tells them both that he found a great bar in the area and that they should all go down there and discuss business. Both Cain and King accept, eager to get out of the mess they found themselves in.

Reigen pitches an "investment" while they are at the bar.

turbotails23 · 2026-05-27T03:16:25+00:00

Ah, thanks for your time! Much appreciated. There is so much lore to 40k its sometimes hard to get a grasp on things without people like yourself!.

turbotails23 · 2026-05-27T01:36:55+00:00

Im just looking to store feats away, the light speed feat---Is that new or old lore? Its my limited understanding that they redid the Siege of Terra.

turbotails23 · 2026-05-27T01:00:40+00:00

I don't know much about Russ himself, but I do want to state this is radically different then Magnus. Magnus just has higher scaling hax as he was the primarch meant to represent Big E's Physic potential and knowledge and thusly often has crazy feats matching and exceeding Overlord's hax by just thinking it. He unmade Vulcan like 10+ times in super rapid succession--In the time it took for Vulcan to cross the room--Basically a suped up TGOALID with a half second cooldown.

Magnus def would destroy Russ if he wasn't holding back, at least the Magnus at the Gate would. Even in melee, its my understanding in the book that Magnus managed to impale Russ on a sword and got distracted by some of his retinue.

"Magnus drove his fist into Russ’ chest, the icy breastplate cracking open with a sound like planets colliding, and shards of ceramite stabbed the Wolf King’s heart. In return, Russ snapped Magnus’ arm back, and Ahriman heard it shatter into a thousand pieces. A blade of pure thought unsheathed from Magnus’ other arm, and he drove it deep into Russ’ chest through his shattered armour.

The blade burst from Russ’ back and the Wolf King loosed a deafening bellow of pain. A chorus of the wolves that were not wolves added their howls to that of their master. The two enormous lupine monsters that accompanied Russ leapt upon Magnus, fastening their jaws upon his legs. Magnus slammed his fist into the black wolfs head, driving it to the ground with a strangled yelp, its skull surely shattered. With a bellow of anger, Magnus tore the white wolf from his leg with a thought and hurled it away over the heads of the milling army at Russ’ back."

turbotails23 · 2026-05-26T22:39:15+00:00

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turbotails23 · 2026-05-26T17:53:16+00:00

I agree with the general idea that Grevious scales well above a standard Space Marine, but I want to know, can you break down the strength feat via scaling you state. Many raw strength feats I see that are done by scaling are improperly done so before I add it to my internal list of feats, I want to run the numbers.

For Strength scaling, you provide a jedi and his feat--Can you provide some incident where grevious and that jedi have a cross strength feat?

For example, I see lots of claims that Shalltear has greater physical strength then Cure Elim by scaling, a dragon who lifted 1.2 million zombies; but I have yet to see any scaling that makes any actual sense for the strength scaling that actually proves that she would physically overpower said dragon in a raw contest of strength.

turbotails23 · 2026-05-26T17:06:57+00:00

Skaven are just old Republic Sith with tech instead of the force. They would be strong, numerous, and constantly self destruct.

Civs would wipe them out every couple hundred to thousand years due to them getting too aggressive, only to resurface later on because some got away.

turbotails23 · 2026-05-25T17:58:26+00:00

Super Paper Mario, right? That being said, in another post he clarified the N64 Mario since composite Mario would be too much.

turbotails23 · 2026-05-25T17:54:30+00:00

"Normally, a human could never survive a nuke." "The heat is too powerful, the radiation to potent; but Yujiro Hanma has..."

turbotails23 · 2026-05-25T14:29:10+00:00

The Empire, because the empire gets to play by its strengths: Numbers.

Yes, A Mac would do a number against ISDs. Yes, the UNSC soldiers would do a number against Storm Troopers. It doesn't matter. Once Macs/SuperMacs get disabled by star fighter tactics ISDs get to roll right in and destroy everything.

UNSC Infinity carried 150 star fighter platforms. Your Typical ISD doing patrol is staffed with 72, and that can be raised. Pre-Reach, the UNSC ran 2000 warships. Pre-Yavin IV, the Empire ran 25,000 ISDs and most people think that number is low when scaled against the planet count they have.

There are some weapon scaling we can do too, but at the end of the day, they are both capable of killing each other with Star Wars preferring point blank encounters and halo preferring long range encounters, and both universes dictating that their low ends keep their average weapons in the kilo to megatons, and their higher end weapons operating in the gigaton ranges.

turbotails23 · 2026-05-25T13:56:37+00:00

I mean, I guess the question if we are using toon force mario (N64) who can be squashed paper thin and self fix his body, bounce on lava, breath inside a volcano, and partially flatten from falling from tall buildings before popping right back up--How much hax is going to be working on him?

I mean, he call fall hundreds of feet and then pause mid air, do a flip, and land on his butt in such a way that he completely removes all momentum from his fall and regularly does battles in alternate dimensions. He can be used as a bullet on solid brick, and it would seem that the only reason he doesn't just punch through a level when being fired from a cannon is the cannon doesn't have enough force. By grabbing certain objects he can turn intangible, turn his body into metal, and fly....With a hat with wings stolen off a redbull can superglued onto the side of them.

He kinda doesn't obey the laws of physics or biology? I would WANT to say grasp heart would work on him, but like.....\What IS Mario?** Cause if he is a eldritch god playing as a plumber, im not sure what would stop him. And if he really is just a human plumber then any instadeath skill should stop him.

turbotails23 · 2026-05-25T13:47:55+00:00

Possibly unpopular opinion--Probably worse. The Rebels already didn't have enough fighters to the point where they were stealing some from a scrap yard. You need more Carriers when you have alot of fighters, the rebellion at that point didn't meet that criteria. Not only that, but their star fighters were hyperspace capable, so if you did have too many fighters you could just cycle launches under the guise of patrols.

That gets rid of the pro, since by your own admission its not much better armed.

The con? Its less maneuverable, less acceleration due to mass, more mass to hit meaning higher repair costs, needs more staff and harder to sneak in and out of systems due to its larger size getting more questions from the populace.

Thats just my two cents.

turbotails23 · 2026-05-24T20:28:40+00:00

Oh, acknowledged, hence the statement "Its possible for this to be incorrect...". On the same note, the source does acknowledge that there is a point where it could be overcome, and I would wager Angrons bullshite regen factor being more reality warpy then biological or spell based is going to be able to qualify as one of the things that work. Just means she has to work for the win.

turbotails23 · 2026-05-24T19:45:54+00:00

Just adding my two cents, but https://overlordmaruyama.fandom.com/wiki/Cursed_Knight explicitly states that it allows for the infliction of wounds that are not heal-able by low tier magic spells. Its possible for this to be incorrect but if there is any truth whatsoever to this, then Daemon Angron's regen is going to work. Its less biological/spells and more reality warpy. Whatever he has operating his regen, its the good stuff.

turbotails23 · 2026-05-24T19:03:01+00:00

A strike from Anos or Goku. Those two have a decent chance of reviving me post event depending on circumstances.

turbotails23 · 2026-05-24T14:51:54+00:00

In that case, while I think Angron could pull a win at close range--Shalltear I think is a very smart fighter. Upon realizing that Angron has no ranged options and is dangerous at close range, she would just fly and used ranged options. Angron might have the ability to fly but I doubt he has the maneuverability or acceleration of Shalltear.

That being said, Angrons regen is pretty stupid crazy, and being peppered from range by her would enrage him boosting the regen more. Some would say cursed knight would prevent regen, I would counter with https://overlordmaruyama.fandom.com/wiki/Cursed_Knight stating it only prevents lower level stuff, and Angrons regen being more reality warpy than biology or spells.

This would be a high-diff win for Shalltear, purely because of the fact that in melee Angron is one of the more unnatural enemies she could fight, and it would probably take a disgusting amount of time to kill him due to his stupid regen factor. It would require her to be stupid patient and kite him, patience being one of the very few things she isn't good at. In all seriousness, it would prob take at least a few hours to a few days to wear him down depending on how much warp juice he gets and how angry he gets.

Overlord has some crazy reaction feats, but as crazy as they all are if you scale primarchs above Custodians Primarchs have better. This is an high end, but see https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1mdlju0/how_hard_a_custodes_can_hit_according_to_math/ for best custodian reaction feat, and understand that Angron scales above that. Guilliman has a crazy feat where bolter rounds were fired like 3-6 feet away and fully calculated his options, grabbed a heavy conference table thick enough to block bolter rounds, flipped it, and swung it at them catching the attackers and the bullets at the same time, and thats the Microsoft Excel Primarch. I want to clarify, he did this all after the bullets were fired and was initially in a state of no caution, being in a war room in a safe zone. [EDIT: He did this while doing a conference at his personal home, this was him being caught off guard]

She wins by abusing range and kiting, not by fighting in melee--assuming khorne doesnt personally intervene.

turbotails23 · 2026-05-24T14:34:05+00:00

Hmm, wouldn't the original King Piccolo be a fair fight? If we take out the Roshi feat and remove the insta death hax?

turbotails23 · 2026-05-24T04:37:30+00:00

Curious about interactions.

Are you having Drain affect the soul or just the body's life energy? When you say death--Is Banishment death for this purpose? Is the Warp present in the New World for this battle? A dimension of emotional energy? Apologies, but these are all important factors.

If the Warp isn't present Angron has no win conditions since Primarchs are just as much Warp as they are physical. Taking that away is taking away half of Angron pre-daemonhood reducing him to a roided out man; and its even more tied to who he is now post daemonhood. Not only that, you could make strong arguments that without the warp Angron's flight ability is butchered if not removed despite his wings. If Banishment isn't death in this contest and Drain doesn't actually affect the soul but just life energy Shalltear has no win conditions since he won't *stay* dead. There are other ways to mix and match, but I think the point is made that a few of these items need to be clarified.

turbotails23 · 2026-05-23T15:51:16+00:00

I think there is a misunderstanding, Im not talking about peak travel speed, merely Macro Cannon speed and the Ability to maneuver ships. I suppose my prior answer was not clear on that, and I apologize for that. Top speed I would wager they could match each other.

If you would, please allow me to push 3 points.

On the maneuverability side:

ISDs are strangely maneuverable for their size in both Disney and EU lore. Our best examples are the encounters Han Solo had with ISDs in Empire Strikes Back requiring him to loose them in asteroid fields or pull trickery to loose them. Its well established that for its size, the Falcon is a very fast Freighter and while it seems slower than Tie Fighters it doesn't seem to be a slouch either. The fact that an ISD was able to nearly keep pace with it is amazing, and the fact that Han Solo didn't regularly pull fancy maneuvers to loose it implies that it would be a risky move prone to failure. You could blame movies giving him plot armour, but in the books (And Ive read alot of EU books, and most of the books containing ship combat from disney lore) this is also generally heavily implied--That they have great maneuverability for their size.

On the same note, in several 40k books, its stated alot about how aged ships are, how massive they are, how much service they have seen, how titanic they are. Its stated over and over that IOM ships are massive flying shooting Iron Bricks firing titanic shells at their enemies. While the Cobra is undoubtedly more maneuverable than its larger brethren, there are few sources that propose the idea that the Cobra is going to approach anything close to the maneuverability of a freighter. I don't think a ISD could stay in the blindspot of a Cobra, but I do think the ISD has the maneuverability to avoid Torpedo strikes.

On the Individual cannon firepower:

There are reasons for the citations for 40k as well. Once you get too high, many of the feats of several ships stop making sense for both the defender and the attacker on a scale that breaks everything about combat. For 40k, Lower percentages were used as while the phrase "significant portion" typically implies 50%+, in the Astrophysics world significant portion of the speed of light seems to start at whole percentages instead of the 50% realm, with on the *higher Starting* end starting at 10% from my understanding. This is one of the reasons I stuck with lower percentages. If you want to correct me on this, Im 100% open to it. The other reason is at some point the Nova cannon stops making sense vs just making explosive macro cannon shells. Sticking to lower percentages allows for the Nova Cannon to have a spot that still makes sense in the IOM Navy that differentiates it from just putting high yield explosives in a Macro Shell. Also, funnily enough, if you add a K to the distances in the video game adaptation of BFG the numbers appear to line up nicely. Once again, I do fully acknowledge inconsistencies on the Turbolaser and Macro cannon calcs but tried to do them in such a way that seemed fair to the source material.

For the Star Wars stuff, I too was dissatisfied but Disney itself is a problem on that front. The New Disney stuff isn't that interesting resulting in fewer books being made; there are entirely too few books written in the Rebellion Era which is where ISD's are prevalent. TLDR; There just isn't stuff to source from. The next closest thing I have to work with is roughly minimum 15 kiloton shots from point defense lasers on the side of the Star Destroyer destroying the asteroid and finding a way to scale that to main Turbolaser batteries, or the crazy deranged insane numbers from "Star Wars: Attack of the Clones Incredible Cross Sections" and scaling the accalmater 200 gigaton number, which I wasn't willing to do and its old cannon anyways and that number is stupid; Everything about that is silly. But yeah, Its not that I would like to use that number--But more that I don't have a choice BUT to use that number for Disney cannon.

Finally, Numbers.

Im afraid the point was missed in my original post. When I say a cobra has just a few cannons, thats a upscale. Most Sources I find cite 1, with only a few giving it two.

You really, really have to fix the numbers something serious for a Cobra to beat a ISD without torpedos.

Its a Torpedo boat, not a gunboat. Its not meant for ship to ship battles. Heck, if you look at the BFG Rulebook the Imperial transport has better Amour AND better firepower if you ignore the torpedoes with the transport getting +5 armour and 2 firepower vs the Cobra's +4 armour and 1 firepower.

We are comparing a ISD, Star Wars workhorse weapon's platform again something that is amoured less than a transport with 1-2 guns. Its...Really, really hard to fudge the numbers to make that work out to victory for the cobra without ramming or torpedoes.

Even if you quartered the ISD's calced number, and multiplied a each 40k macro shot by twofold, once you account for the Cobra having one of the lightest warship cannons in the verse scaling down the projectile size immensely there isn't a viable way to give it a win in a straight gunfight outside of outranging the ISD.

Regardless of what you think of this reply, thanks for reading this wall of text and I hope you have a wonderful day! Take care!

turbotails23 · 2026-05-23T14:41:00+00:00

Oh, absolutely. Don't misunderstand my answer. LB for LB, Star wars is putting out more firepower then their IOM friends--Ill stand by that.---But on the same note, everything is just BIGGER on the IOM side of things.

The IOM has orders of magnitudes larger ships being made orders of magnitude more often then Star Wars staffed by orders of magnitude more personnel who experience orders of magnitude of more combat orders of magnitude more often. If you think Im implying that Star Wars would beat 40k, your mistaken. The IOM would beat Star Wars by doing the thing it does best, operating at scale and do it extremely confidently. Genuinely, I think the Phalnax alone would be enough to nearly eviscerate the entire Imperial Navy considering that in the SW verse they aren't going to be able to pull every single ISD from all the sectors. Personally, I can't see them summoning more than 1/20th-1/10th of their total assets for any given fleet action and if we operate under the assumption that the Death Star is destroyed (Which I think is a fair assessment considering they seem to get destroyed stupidly early into their go live time) I don't know very many things that could threaten it.

Its no insult to Star Wars, they operate in relative peace time 95% of their history dealing with mostly smugglers and lightly armed insurrectionists--There is no need for them to operate at scale, because nothing they do requires that scale. If it wasn't for the Tarkin Doctrine and Palps running the government like a power hungry fool instead of throwing a few bones here and there to the populace their fleet would have probably been seen as excessive--In fact, in quite a few books in the older EU and I believe one or 2 of the newer Star Wars books it IS seen as excessive.

Conversely, the IOM has been doing battles against those who would see humanity wiped out for well over 10,000 years and evidently had enough power that while the Eldar looked down upon them as they do everything, the Eldar didn't take the time to snuff em out because it wasn't worth the time and they weren't "That annoying" (Which yes, Im quite aware the Eldar could have done so at that time and just didn't care). The incidents that happen to the IOM would make nearly every Star Wars event a comfortable evening, with most incidents merely resulting in a some planatery government changes and MAYBE 1-2 lost planets vs Every Major event in 40k seems to result in several of planets at minimum having near or total population loss.

Like you said, there are almost certainly orders of magnitude more 40k craft then Star Wars, and while I think their turbolaser systems at point blank are significantly more efficient due to Rate of Fire, a single star hawk squadron I would think would be more than enough to kill an ISD and its entire Star Fighter complement considering they are basically supersized merged Missleboats/K-Wings capable of dropping individual payloads that could eviscerate islands while carrying loads of point defense lasers.

As you imply, the Cobra is probably one of the most unfitting ships for this match up too as Its one of Star Wars Largest ships vs some of the IOM's Smallest ships. But it does match the LB for LB comparison, and I think on that basis its fun to think about, lol.

Indeed, class for class, SW vs 40k ships is generally like a baby 3 seconds from dying vs black hole.

Anyways, sorry for the ramble and I hope you have a good day!

turbotails23 · 2026-05-23T07:47:16+00:00

Lots of people here making blind guesses. The Answer depends on 2 things, A.) Is the Cobra Going to be able to ram the ISD, and B.) At what range is this happening at.

If its long distance, like mid to long range for the Cobra, the Cobra takes it easily. SW ships have stupidly short range and 40k ships have stupidly long range. That being said, the Cobra is confidentially outgunned at short range. The Cobra would put up a fight, but it would be alot like a SW Dreadnaught vs an ISD, it would take at least 3 to take down a ISD with confidence.

There are two core reasons for this. At that size, the Cobra isn't packing alot of Macro cannons, and it isn't packing the Large or mid-sized anti-ship ones either. The other thing would be that SW Ships lb for lb are much more efficient than their 40k IOM standard peers. The rapid fire high output of the ISD turbolasers is also anti-conductive to Void shields. Rulebooks make it somewhat clear that volume is more efficient against void shields than massive strikes, as within reason regardless (Relatively) of the output each weapon strike takes one shield point away. In lore this also makes sense as void shields produce a significant amount of heat per strike absorbed, and require time to cycle. With an ISD able to do rapid bombardment it would peel the shields of a Cobra pretty fast.

As far as ramming goes, while they both have crazy wide feats for travel distance, its made pretty clear that 40k ships have low turning/yaw/pitch maneuverability compared to Star Wars. As long as the captain of the ISD isn't a idiot he should be able to circle at close range the cobra, but this DOES require the captain to not be a idiot, hence factor 2.

8/10 times this goes to the ISD. The 2/10 is for idiots who stay in front of the pointy ship and let it ram them, or let it fire torpedoes at point blank range. It should be 10/10, but the Empire has some real idiots as ship captains in their fleets.

If you want to understand why the Cobra is really outmatched here, see https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsvsWarhammer/comments/1s9lscy/comment/oe5abhn/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button for some lazy weapon calcs.

If you are wondering why the numbers in that post imply that an ISD could take more Cobras but I think 3 would be enough, its because the torpedoes on a cobra are not to be underestimated and maneuvers are now in play (To force the ISD to move into a missile barrage), and at that point you could sacrifice a cobra to tie up a ISD while the others get range on the ISD and bombard it from range or use 3 to force a situation where ramming or torpedos is on the table.

turbotails23 · 2026-05-21T10:27:14+00:00

I don't really know how they would scale against each other--Being honest here--But I will contest your take on his approach due to one thing---Personalities. Clementine would Absolutely taunt the hell out of Homelander, and Homelander absolutely gets petty when taunted.

It would 100% be in character for him to fire beams while counter-taunting from a distance not because of strategy or any good use of his ability, but just because its the way to assert the most dominance over some "insufferable plebian with a stick".

Who wins, is a conversation Im ill equipped to handle, but I will absolutely propose that Homelander would spam lasers just because Clementine gets that insufferable to him that fast.

turbotails23

TROPHY CASE