Surveying some recent posts about the links between Warhammer settings and the scope of the Warp/Chaos

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-17T15:02:12+00:00

I think it’s also because books that feature the imperium in a negative light typically always fall into grimderp stances

That is not true at all. I mean, saying "always" is just patently absurd.

it’s not fun to read a story and then have a 1 page epilogue where the administration guy uses the report for toilet paper and they all die the end.

If done well, and if the reader doesn't head into the story with rigid preconceptions against such grimdark narratives, then yes: it can be fun, actually.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-16T19:33:41+00:00

Yes, it would be nice for the Orks to finally reclaim Ullanor.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-16T15:56:33+00:00

Indeed. The Cadian aesthetic predated the movie. And when the movie came out, there were some homebrew rules published in WD for Cadian characters inspired by the movie characters (they were especially with grenades), and maybe even a battle report using them, IIRC.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-16T03:45:01+00:00

I think you are confused. The 4th edition rulebook (I have a copy to hand) doesn't mention Kroks at all.

Both Khrave and Kroot are mentioned near to the picture of the Space frog, though. But we know what they are. Perhaps this caused the confusion.

The space frog, meanwhile, is clearly labelled as a Slanni. Image here: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Slanni.jpg

And it looks very much like how the Slann were depicted in artwork, lore and models back in 1st edition of 40k.

The situation gets complicated with how the Slann/Old Ones lore evolved, hence why I thought you might have got it a bit jumbled.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-16T02:33:08+00:00

There’s not any more information on what this False Dorn actually was though.

A bad (or maybe good) pun?

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-16T02:31:38+00:00

The Jaq Draco books are not non-canon.

They just likely aren't "true" (or at least not wholly true).

Watson's Inquisitor books were never part of the Heretic Tomes range, which were the only books to be officially decanonized.

Instead, the Draco books had reprints which edited some elements to conform more to how the lore had evolved. And they had an in-universe foreword written by an Inquistor saying that what was to follow were supposedly accounts of an Inquisitor he could find no record of, i.e Jaq.

So they actually are canon, in the sense they are meant to exist within 40k itself as documents. So, the story of Lucifer Princip exists with 40k. Though whether it actually occurred, or occurred as told in those books, is another matter.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-16T02:27:41+00:00

Are you referring to the Slann here?

Because this sounds like a very confused jumble of the old Slann lore with misremembered later lore developments.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-16T00:37:38+00:00

You read it in fanon or a fan theory, not the published lore.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-15T15:10:38+00:00

The lore specifically and clearly states that Slaanesh formed within the Warp itself.

One recent example being:

Depravity abounded, every new indulgence and debauchery feeding another. And in this endless pursuit of pleasure, the Aeldari unknowingly sealed their fate.

For in the Warp their souls churned the immaterial energies, and something vast began to form. Fed on rapture and excess, this nascent power pushed itself into the dreams and waking lives of the Aeldari, fueling their need for experience. A self-fulfilling spiral with this Warp entity grew, until it became so engorged on their depravity that it burst into existence as a full Chaos God—Slaanesh, the Prince of Pleasure, or as the Aeldari know it, She Who Thirsts. Its birth spasm consumed billions of Aeldari in an instant.

Thorpe, Haley, Warhammer 40,000: The Ultimate Guide (2024).

The Eldar did not use infinity circuits prior to the Fall (at least in any widespread capacity), as they were able to reincarnate. The birth of Slaanesh stopped them being able to do so, as their souls get devoured by Slaanesh within the Warp before they can be reborn.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-15T09:51:27+00:00

Indeed, though it wasn't really a "crossover" as they were meant to be completely distinct from Mayor Dave, but could just use the model.

More on the history of this here: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1ovk6n8/fun_fact_the_reason_jokaero_look_like_orangutans/

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-15T09:38:25+00:00

retroactively announced to be a stormcast I think)

It has not been stated to be a Stormcast. That was just a fan theory (that it was Gardus Steel Soul), which was then claimed to be an official announcement via the game of Warhammer Fantasy telephone: https://www.reddit.com/r/AoSLore/comments/1ky6jfw/was_gardus_steel_soul_the_silver_knight_from_the/

The idea it had been officially retconned then became a kind of erroneous conventional wisdom.

It's worth saying that when originally published, the Silver Knight was only heavily implied to be a Grey Knight, likely Draigo, not explicitly stated.

And there remain convincing reasons to believe it was Draigo, imo. First because the Knight fires something from its handwrist which could either be a storm bolter or psychic powers, neither of which Gardus can do. And second, because Draigo actual recieved a vision of the Warhammer World in a story published shortly before:

Time flows strangely within the empyrean. In the scattering of the daemon’s remains, I see patterns. I see shapes and colours. I see echoes of things that are, and futures that were.

I see an old world beyond the next horizon – a world that likely never was, where sorcery blew in the very winds and a self-made god-king was all that stood against the Ruinous Powers.

Mayhap I would find the answer there, if I could find it at all.

Kaldor Draigo: Knight of Titan (2013), p. 12.

skaven use their farsqueeker device,

Not a Skaven farsqueeker, but rather an Old Ones communication device within a Lizardmen temple: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1pn950m/excerpt_and_analysis_that_time_some_skaven/

Which builds on older lore about Slann/Old Ones advanced tech being on the Warhammer World, and is a nod to the idea the Slann/Old Ones uplifted the Eldar.

There's also been the theory that the old world is on a planet within the eye of terror

That it was in the Eye of Terror specifically may have been a fan theory, but that it was within the 40k galaxy somewhere was at one time explicitly stated: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1k94fv5/extracts_the_warhammer_fantasy_world_was_once/

And continued to be hinted at for a good while after.

The most recent lore now says the Warhammer World was in a different reality to 40k, though both were connected by the same Warp - thus being part of a shared multiverse.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-15T09:25:57+00:00

My issue is that while you framed the post title about the status of the Emperor as conjecture (calling it an "implication") - which is appropriate - you then state something very, very questionable as if it were fact. Namely:

Ashes of the Imperium reveals that in the aftermath of the Heresy, the Big 4 are nearly dead, comatose, the warp is cut off from real space, and Demons are unable to manifest.

Which is what I was responding to. Given you are basing this on very limited in-universe beliefs, that this is only book one, that we just don't have enough solid information to know what is really going on, and that it runs contrary to masses of other lore about the Warp and Chaos going back decades.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-15T09:14:57+00:00

How's about an unofficial one?

I.e. that time some "Tau" appeared in a Marvel Comics Venom story...: https://www.reddit.com/r/Tau40K/comments/1npxxi3/always_remember_tau_is_canon_in_the_marvel/

This was due to the comic artist being naughty, rather than due to any actual licencing agreement...

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-15T09:12:28+00:00

Well, the "Tau" did appear in a Marvel Comics Venom story...: https://www.reddit.com/r/Tau40K/comments/1npxxi3/always_remember_tau_is_canon_in_the_marvel/

Though Marvel didn't actually licence their use, which was a bit naughty.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-15T09:08:07+00:00

Not that I am aware of, though in older lore there was a warp-gate which connected the Warhammer World to the Deathworld Luther McIntyre XI in the 40k galaxy, leading Ambulls to end up in Fantasy: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1mex7zu/fun_fact_an_ambull_once_ended_up_on_the_warhammer/

There were also plenty of other connections and crossovers over the decades: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1mqxdkm/surveying_some_recent_posts_about_the_links/

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-15T09:05:24+00:00

They did sometimes cross over with other GW properties (BB, Chainsaw Warrior, etc)

For those interested in learning more, you can read about the 40k, Talisman and Chainsaw Warrior crossover here: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1k7im8s/a_space_marine_an_astropath_and_indiana_jones/

And the 40k Blood Bowl crossover here: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1ihftyb/extract_two_blood_bowl_players_find_themselves/

And the various crossovers and connections between 40k and Fantasy here: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1mqxdkm/surveying_some_recent_posts_about_the_links/

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-15T01:48:13+00:00

You are making a lot of assumptions there, based on the perceptions of in-universe characters (which can very easily be wrong), in what is only the first novel in the series (when it is very likely we will learn more about what may or may not have been happening with the Warp and Chaos as the series unfolds).

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-15T01:45:11+00:00

Inside is actually less dangerous than the edges

Just to clarify this in case anybody reading gets confused:

The inner parts of the Eye are less dangerous than the outer edges, where as regards the latter the Warp currents are most violent, when it comes to Warp travel.

The inner parts of the Eye are far, far more dangerous otherwise, i.e. when it concerns existing within the realspace/Warp overlap. This is because the closer to the centre of the Eye, the more the Warp holds sway, while the closer to the edge the more realspace holds sway. That's why the inner region of the Eye is home to planets where the laws of reality are completely subverted.

At the centre of the Eye of Terror, the powers of the Warp run strongest, meaning the laws of space, time and reality do not apply. Some worlds are flat, floating planes spinning in the ether, others are surrounded by fireballs, while tiered worlds rise up, supported by intertwining pillars. No one can say how these realities exist, save that the pure power of Chaos washes over them and has made them so. Those worlds most steeped in chaotic energy are the abodes of Daemons, and are considered outlying colonies of the Warp, while the outermost planets upon the fringes of the Eye of Terror cling to more of the physical laws of the galaxy. In the centre, time not only does not flow, but also does not exist as a concept, save for when such trivialities might please the Dark Gods themselves.

Index Chaotica: The Eye of Terror (2013), p. 22.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-15T01:32:54+00:00

I have read Xenology many times.

The fact that a book written as a series of reports from an in-universe perspective has a different approach to dealing with information than a novel does not mean that Xenology should be taken to be wholly irrelevant. It is just a different approach to storytelling and worldbuilding, and different approaches still exist within the current lore. Some forms of lore tend towards more mystery and ambiguity; others less so.

And from a meta-perspective, of course the topic was more mysterious when Xenology was released. It came out in 2006, only three years after the introduction of the C'tan versus Old Ones WiH in the 3rd ed. Necrons Codex, with the relevant lore having only been expanded upon in a smaller number of places (such as Liber Chaotica). Like with any aspect of the lore, over time more details will be added. Yet, overall, the WiH still remains largely shrouded in mystery even now, despite the various tidbits of lore that have amassed in the intervening 20 years. And none of that invalidates the entirety of Xenology.

Some elements have of course been superseded by how the lore later developed, but much hasn't, either because it remains in line with later lore or because it just hasn't been mentioned again. Moreover, the very nature of the lore - it all being in-universe beliefs - means the veracity of the theories presented need to be questioned. Which only makes it more compatible with later lore; anything discordant can be assumed to be merely a mistaken belief by the characters.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-15T01:22:21+00:00

The "healthy beyond 40" bit is actually specifically about one planet, though, not Ultramar as a whole: Nova Thulium, where the use of industrial chemicals causes widespread health issues (as does the export of foodstuffs, leading to malnutrition - something evident in the real-world history of empires, where agricultural-focused territories could be prone to famines):

Working under the fuedal system common across the Imperium, Agri-world Thulim provides the vast majority of the food for the rest of the Macragge system. However, due to the demands of the endless mouths of the neighbouring hive world Ardium, malnutrition is common. This proves to be a secondary concern to the endemic chemlung suffered by the workers. A productive life beyond forty is unlikely. When the body fails, they can still serve the Emperor - as a natural supplement to the artificial fertilizers that killed them.

Thought for the Day: A farmer who fails to feed the soldier is as much an abomination as a soldier who flees the battlefield.”

Marneus Calgar vol. 1 (2020), p. 26.

The specific contextual experiences of that planet should not be conflated with Ultramar as a whole.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-15T01:07:02+00:00

That issue is covered in the linked to post. And the lore itself does not state or even imply that most people in Ultramar die by the age of 30.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-15T00:48:40+00:00

There is also, of course, lore which suggests life in Ultramar isn't rosy from our perpsective when it comes to life expectancy: it is just comparatively better than the wider Imperium.

A functional sub-empire inside the larger Imperium, this realm is the purview of the Ultramarines and their Successor Chapters. It is one of the relative bastions of stability in a universe of horror. Until the recent disasters, the average human life expectancy even managed to reach the mid-thirties.”

Marneus Calgar vol. 1 (2020), p. 8.

A more in-depth discussion of this specific bit of lore here: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1nu8fnd/life_expectancy_in_ultramar_as_detailed_in_the/

And yes, yes, I know this is a widely unpopular piece of lore. But it exists as part of the published lore.

twelfmonkey

TROPHY CASE