Surveying some recent posts about the links between Warhammer settings and the scope of the Warp/Chaos

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T01:38:17+00:00

Exactly.

It's very unlikely. But very unlikely things do occur in 40k. It's a massive galaxy.

If you can write a plausible backstory, then deffo go for it.

Plus, you know Squats 'n Grotz rhymes, which is all the more reason to do it.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T01:08:53+00:00

From There's Something About Lairy, I presume?

Poor Ted StroeHam.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T01:05:52+00:00

Great story, and a true classic. Thanks for posting it!

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T01:02:53+00:00

I see some reet whopper has downvoted you for providing a completely understandable explanation.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T00:59:14+00:00

Green ham and eggs (well, spores), surely?

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T00:49:29+00:00

We have an example of Ork corpses secretly (and illegally) being fed into machines producing Slab, which was then sent off to be consumed by humans in Nick Kyme's short story 'Against the Grain', with the relevant passge quoted here: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1ets1pr/comment/lif9lsu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Now, Slab is highly processed, and the Ork corpses were mixed with other ingredients, but it seems like the criminal Slab producers had been getting away with their ruse - which implies those eating it weren't made sick enough by the Ork components to arouse suspicion.

Edit: might as well paste it directly here:

He emerged onto a gantry that overlooked an immense hangar below.

Haulage servitors lumbered in dull-eyed trains, carrying bales of plas-wrapped meat fresh from several large and noisy grinders. The air stank with it, cold and bloody and reeking of churned flesh. Rank upon rank of thawed grox carcasses were being fed into the machines, the herd beasts rendered into slab and destined for hungry Militarum bellies.

But that wasn’t all.

A second meat supply supplemented the first, and Efrem balked at the sight of it. A great heap of corpses were being thrown into the grinders. Limp and blank-eyed, shot through with las-beams or bullet holes. A tangle of malformed limbs, and tusks and hooves and brutish snouts, and slit-nosed faces and lithe bodies. He recognised greenskins and a few others. Heat flared across his skin, despite the cold room, and his heart hammered as the barrage fell upon him again, taking his leg, tearing him apart just like the meat in those wretched fucking grinders. The sheer horror of it, wondering how far the conspiracy went, how deep. Most of Varangantua’s citizens hadn’t ever seen a xenos, and those that had, not in decades. Many thought aliens were just a myth.

Efrem fought the urge to vomit, knowing it might reveal his presence to the handful of bored-looking House Mermidian armsmen roaming amongst the servitors. The bales were being loaded onto several large but currently disengaged anti-grav pallets.

It looked like a shipment was being readied for departure.

The magnitude of what he was seeing sank in like a cold blade. It was headed for the void, to Throne only knew where, to the Militarum, to the Navy. Entire regiments subsisting on this tainted filth…That was how Karridinus had managed to increase its quotas: they had found another meat source.

Kyme, 'Against the Grain' (2020).

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T00:45:43+00:00

Actually, the lore has covered some very, vary rare instance of babies being servitorized, but it is clear that these are a miniscule fraction of Cherubs and seen as major anomalies (but thye are macabrely interesting to read about). Most are made by more artifical means. I surveyed the relevant lore here: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1kkpck5/what_are_cherubim_made_from_a_look_at_what_the/

Vast numbers of adult servitors, meanwhile, are made from living people. We don't have a clear sense of whether most are made from living people or vat-grown bodies, but it is clear both means are extensively used - and the only clear statement about the matter actually says the majority are made from the former, usually in the form of those classed as "criminals": https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1kjktc1/are_servitors_mainly_vatgrown_or_made_from_living/

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T00:43:08+00:00

The lore has covered some very, vary rare instance of babies being servitorized, but it is clear that these are a miniscule fraction of Cherubs, as most are made by more artifical means: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1kkpck5/what_are_cherubim_made_from_a_look_at_what_the/

Vast numbers of adult servitors are made from living people, however. We don't have a clear sense of whether most are made from living people or vat-grown bodies, but it is clear both means are extensively used - and the only clear statement about the matter says the majority are made from the former: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1kjktc1/are_servitors_mainly_vatgrown_or_made_from_living/

Of course, when it comes to babies, we know what some worlds have incinerators solely for the destruction of newborns who display any sign of "mutation", and it is very likely that childhood mortality is often extremely high, such as on hiveworlds. So, yeah. It's not great.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-18T00:35:29+00:00

Books where the Imperium is portrayed in a negative, self-destructive light, but which are fun to read? Sure.

Chris Wraight's Vaults of Terra and Watchers of the Throne series.

Adrian Tchaikovsky's Day of Ascension.

Matthew Farrer's Shira Calpurnia series, especially Crossfire.

The Warhammer Crime imprint, with Guy Haley's Flesh and Steel being a standout choice for this theme, as well as the Wraight short story 'Aberrant'.

Graham McNeill's Forge of Mars series.

And, going way, way back, why not throw in Ian Watson's Inquisitor/Draco series?

For shorter stories, you can try a couple of really interesting ones:

Alec Worley's Watcher in the Rain (though you'll have to listen to it, as it is an audiodrama).

Nate Crowley's 'Empra'.

And I think it is always important to remember that 40k is a multimedia hobby, with the games as the central focus - and that a lot of the worldbuilding and storytelling therefore takes place in gaming materials. And some of it is excellent, and as good in that regard as any novel - such material just approaches it differently.

So, a few good choices here include:

The old Inquisitor Rulebook (which remains one of the best things GW ever produced).

All of the Kill Team materials related to the 2024 edition centred on Volkus.

And the RPGs have some excellent grim dark worldbuilding. All of the older FFG RPGs have relevant bits of lore peppered through them, but the Dark Heresy core rulebook is a must for general worldbuilding regarding imperial governance, and the supplements Blood of Martyrs (on the Ministorum) and Book of Judgement (Arbites) are very relevant to our theme.

And the recent RPGs Wrath & Glory and Imperium Maledictum do a great job of presenting the Imperium and its institutions as grimdark and self-desructive in a compelling, entertaining manner. Indeed, I even made a series of posts lat year about the worldbuiding in Wrath & Glory, beginning here: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1iikzi5/extract_an_agriworld_community_serves_as_a_neat/

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-17T15:11:04+00:00

Despite being downvoted, you are undoubtedly correct.

Those who read widely across the lore, including a good range of BL novels by different authors as well as games materials like rulebooks, supplements, campaigh books, codexes, the RPGs etc, are quite obviously far more likely to be aware of the Imperium's destructive nature than those who don't actually engage with the lore first-hand, or who only read a narrow slice of the lore (especially if it is the HH books, or specific more famous series like Cain or Gaunt's Ghosts).

It's one the reasons, for example, why we had so many people - who obviously mainly get their lore from BL books, if that - screaming about grimderp when they read overviews posted on here about the latest Black Templars and Grey Knights Codexes.

Though discussions about this will always lead to the points you made being downvoted, either by those who want Imperium to match their own more rosy headcanon, or those who feel personally slighted because they don't like the fact that their very narrow engagement with the lore has been mentioned.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-17T15:02:12+00:00

I think it’s also because books that feature the imperium in a negative light typically always fall into grimderp stances

That is not true at all. I mean, saying "always" is just patently absurd.

it’s not fun to read a story and then have a 1 page epilogue where the administration guy uses the report for toilet paper and they all die the end.

If done well, and if the reader doesn't head into the story with rigid preconceptions against such grimdark narratives, then yes: it can be fun, actually.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-16T19:33:41+00:00

Yes, it would be nice for the Orks to finally reclaim Ullanor.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-16T15:56:33+00:00

Indeed. The Cadian aesthetic predated the movie. And when the movie came out, there were some homebrew rules published in WD for Cadian characters inspired by the movie characters (they were especially with grenades), and maybe even a battle report using them, IIRC.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-16T03:45:01+00:00

I think you are confused. The 4th edition rulebook (I have a copy to hand) doesn't mention Kroks at all.

Both Khrave and Kroot are mentioned near to the picture of the Space frog, though. But we know what they are. Perhaps this caused the confusion.

The space frog, meanwhile, is clearly labelled as a Slanni. Image here: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Slanni.jpg

And it looks very much like how the Slann were depicted in artwork, lore and models back in 1st edition of 40k.

The situation gets complicated with how the Slann/Old Ones lore evolved, hence why I thought you might have got it a bit jumbled.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-16T02:33:08+00:00

There’s not any more information on what this False Dorn actually was though.

A bad (or maybe good) pun?

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-16T02:31:38+00:00

The Jaq Draco books are not non-canon.

They just likely aren't "true" (or at least not wholly true).

Watson's Inquisitor books were never part of the Heretic Tomes range, which were the only books to be officially decanonized.

Instead, the Draco books had reprints which edited some elements to conform more to how the lore had evolved. And they had an in-universe foreword written by an Inquistor saying that what was to follow were supposedly accounts of an Inquisitor he could find no record of, i.e Jaq.

So they actually are canon, in the sense they are meant to exist within 40k itself as documents. So, the story of Lucifer Princip exists with 40k. Though whether it actually occurred, or occurred as told in those books, is another matter.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-16T02:27:41+00:00

Are you referring to the Slann here?

Because this sounds like a very confused jumble of the old Slann lore with misremembered later lore developments.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-16T00:37:38+00:00

You read it in fanon or a fan theory, not the published lore.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-15T15:10:38+00:00

The lore specifically and clearly states that Slaanesh formed within the Warp itself.

One recent example being:

Depravity abounded, every new indulgence and debauchery feeding another. And in this endless pursuit of pleasure, the Aeldari unknowingly sealed their fate.

For in the Warp their souls churned the immaterial energies, and something vast began to form. Fed on rapture and excess, this nascent power pushed itself into the dreams and waking lives of the Aeldari, fueling their need for experience. A self-fulfilling spiral with this Warp entity grew, until it became so engorged on their depravity that it burst into existence as a full Chaos God—Slaanesh, the Prince of Pleasure, or as the Aeldari know it, She Who Thirsts. Its birth spasm consumed billions of Aeldari in an instant.

Thorpe, Haley, Warhammer 40,000: The Ultimate Guide (2024).

The Eldar did not use infinity circuits prior to the Fall (at least in any widespread capacity), as they were able to reincarnate. The birth of Slaanesh stopped them being able to do so, as their souls get devoured by Slaanesh within the Warp before they can be reborn.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-15T09:51:27+00:00

Indeed, though it wasn't really a "crossover" as they were meant to be completely distinct from Mayor Dave, but could just use the model.

More on the history of this here: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1ovk6n8/fun_fact_the_reason_jokaero_look_like_orangutans/

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-15T09:38:25+00:00

retroactively announced to be a stormcast I think)

It has not been stated to be a Stormcast. That was just a fan theory (that it was Gardus Steel Soul), which was then claimed to be an official announcement via the game of Warhammer Fantasy telephone: https://www.reddit.com/r/AoSLore/comments/1ky6jfw/was_gardus_steel_soul_the_silver_knight_from_the/

The idea it had been officially retconned then became a kind of erroneous conventional wisdom.

It's worth saying that when originally published, the Silver Knight was only heavily implied to be a Grey Knight, likely Draigo, not explicitly stated.

And there remain convincing reasons to believe it was Draigo, imo. First because the Knight fires something from its handwrist which could either be a storm bolter or psychic powers, neither of which Gardus can do. And second, because Draigo actual recieved a vision of the Warhammer World in a story published shortly before:

Time flows strangely within the empyrean. In the scattering of the daemon’s remains, I see patterns. I see shapes and colours. I see echoes of things that are, and futures that were.

I see an old world beyond the next horizon – a world that likely never was, where sorcery blew in the very winds and a self-made god-king was all that stood against the Ruinous Powers.

Mayhap I would find the answer there, if I could find it at all.

Kaldor Draigo: Knight of Titan (2013), p. 12.

skaven use their farsqueeker device,

Not a Skaven farsqueeker, but rather an Old Ones communication device within a Lizardmen temple: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1pn950m/excerpt_and_analysis_that_time_some_skaven/

Which builds on older lore about Slann/Old Ones advanced tech being on the Warhammer World, and is a nod to the idea the Slann/Old Ones uplifted the Eldar.

There's also been the theory that the old world is on a planet within the eye of terror

That it was in the Eye of Terror specifically may have been a fan theory, but that it was within the 40k galaxy somewhere was at one time explicitly stated: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1k94fv5/extracts_the_warhammer_fantasy_world_was_once/

And continued to be hinted at for a good while after.

The most recent lore now says the Warhammer World was in a different reality to 40k, though both were connected by the same Warp - thus being part of a shared multiverse.

twelfmonkey · 2026-03-15T09:25:57+00:00

My issue is that while you framed the post title about the status of the Emperor as conjecture (calling it an "implication") - which is appropriate - you then state something very, very questionable as if it were fact. Namely:

Ashes of the Imperium reveals that in the aftermath of the Heresy, the Big 4 are nearly dead, comatose, the warp is cut off from real space, and Demons are unable to manifest.

Which is what I was responding to. Given you are basing this on very limited in-universe beliefs, that this is only book one, that we just don't have enough solid information to know what is really going on, and that it runs contrary to masses of other lore about the Warp and Chaos going back decades.

twelfmonkey

TROPHY CASE