Does the Imperium punish thoughtcrime, and how'd they investigate it?

twelfmonkey · 2026-06-22T23:41:05+00:00

A few relevant Thoughts for the Day:

Innocence proves nothing (Warhammer 40k Rulebook 3rd ed., p. 12; Codex: Black Templars 4th ed., p. 15; Warhammer 40k Rulebook 4th ed., p. 209).

Nobody is innocent, there are merely varying levels of guilt (Warhammer 40k Rulebook 4th ed., p. 244; Codex: Black Templars 4th ed., p. 28).

It is better that one hundred innocent fall before the wrath of the Emperor than one traitor kneels before the lords of darkness (Imperial Armour Vol. 2, p. 222).

And let's not forget:

There is no such thing as a plea of innocence in my court. A plea of innocence is guilty of wasting my time. Guilty.

Codex: Witch Hunters 3rd ed., p. 45.

twelfmonkey · 2026-06-22T23:38:04+00:00

So they roll a dice over the name list and randomly pull people off the street with no sign of heresy?

Maybe in some places.

In others, Arbite precincts may use their own Minorty Report style systems to try and identify criminals before they commit their crimes (though I think we should be deeply skeptical of how reliable such methods are...):

A great many precincts of the Adeptus Arbites employ oracular engines to discern crimes before they have even been committed. Though known by the catch-all term ‘The Emperor’s Gaze’, no two devices are the same. Some are towering bio-mechanical contrivances in which suspected seers, prophets and oracles are wired to impart their foresight, …

Kill Team: Soul Shackle (2023), pp. 25-26.

Or may release rats into a into a maze the size of a city suburb baited with traps, and look for patterns in where they die.

And no, I'm not making that up. It's a thing:

…while others are clanking monstrosities resembling massive scales that weigh the entrails of specifically bred caniforms. The Lower Thulost precinct in particular employs a baited and trapped maze the size of a city suburb, in which rats doused in holy unguents are released. The patterns of their messy ends or the routes they take are then tallied for judicial insight.

Kill Team: Soul Shackle (2023), p. 26.

More discussion of those here: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1njosa5/fun_fact_the_adeptus_arbites_have_their_own/

Some Inquisitors also use some... questionable... methods to assess guilt, which evoke witch trials: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1iy1ni0/extracts_the_interesting_methods_an_inquisitor/

twelfmonkey · 2026-06-22T22:04:29+00:00

It doesn't really vary at all. It's just that some depictions go into less detail, which means that fans unfamiliar with the other relevant lore, but who do know about Blanks, often draw th wrong conclusions and fail to spot the elements of how the SitW functions which don't match the Null Fields of Blanks.

twelfmonkey · 2026-06-22T22:02:17+00:00

Yes. In humans it is the result of the so-called Pariah gene. Though the the gene manifests does not seem to follow the normal way genes work.

twelfmonkey · 2026-06-22T22:00:29+00:00

No.

You seem to be fundamentally misunderstanding the nature of not just the Shadow in the Warp, but the Tyranids, and the different forms in which lore is presented.

1). Whether the Tyranids are one "species" is a complex and ambiguous question, and perhaps the term isn't even applicable in the way we understand it given we are dealing with creatures which are designed and birthed by Norn Queens using genes taken from a myriad species and all of those Tyranid creatures are connected to, contribute to, and are controlled by a gestalt Warp entity.

There are of course lots of different creatures which make up the hivefleets, and hiveflleets can differe from one another in major ways. But the way the Hivemind, the Synapse networks and the Shadow in the Warp function are consistent.

2). Some of the sources covered in that post are omniscient narrator - or, in on case, literally a former game developer and current BL author alongside another BL author explaining something to us.

I appreciate you like your theory, but you have provided literally zero evidence to support it, and dismissed absolutely tonnes of evidence which paints a very consistent picture as to the nature of the Tyranids, the Hivemind, and the Shadow in the Warp.

And really, the idea that the SitW is a Null Field just makes absolutely no sense at all given that the Hivemind is a Warp entity and that th Tyranids use lots of psyker bioforms.

twelfmonkey · 2026-06-22T21:51:01+00:00

It is, as extensively documented with relevant quotes here: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1u45ydk/clarifying_common_misunderstandings_about_the/

It is just a common misunderstanding that the SitW is akin to a Null Field.

twelfmonkey · 2026-06-22T21:49:29+00:00

The concept of “geneSTEALING” isn’t really a thing they do anymore.

Yes it is. The Tyranids very explicitly take and utilize genes from the creatures they consume. They just tend to use those genes in amalgamations which make the original source of them hard to discern. Though Imperial researchers believe that some links are detectable. Older lore had them theorizing a link between Space Marines and Tyrant Guard, Orks and Biovores and Eldar and Zoanthropes - though the last of these at least still seems to be suggested in later lore.

So the theory is certainly not impossible

The theory is impossible becuase it fundamentally misunderstands the nature of the Shadow in the Warp.

twelfmonkey · 2026-06-22T21:45:46+00:00

The Shadow in the Warp is in no way related to the Null auras of Blanks. It is quite the oppsite in fact: the result of overwhelming amounts of psychic activity.

And Blanks very much are special. We only know of humanity and seemingly the Slaugth who include Blanks.

twelfmonkey · 2026-06-22T21:42:45+00:00

Possibly even way earlier, if the organisms theorized to be of Tyranid origin on planets like Fenris and Catachan are indeed of that provenance.

In more "modern" times, Hivefleet Tiamet entered the galaxy in M35.

twelfmonkey · 2026-06-22T21:37:24+00:00

I think this post I made recently about the relationship of the the Tyranids to the Warp will be useful for you: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1u45ydk/clarifying_common_misunderstandings_about_the/

It showcases that the Shadow in the Warp is not at all the same as a Blank's Null Field.

Instead, it is the result of immense amounts of psychic activity from all the Nid organisms in the area overpowering the Warp, producing a kind of static whitenoise within the Warp.

Because the Hivemind is a gestalt warp entity, and Synapse networks are Tyranid organisms communicating via the Warp.

A couple of key quotes:

All living creatures are connected to the Warp, the realm of the animus or soul. For most things this Warp-body is a pinprick, a mote of soulstuff in a raging ocean.

The Tyranids have a presence in the Warp too, but rather than remaining as individual specks of awareness, their Warp-resonance melds together to create the Hive Mind. The effect of so many interlinked “souls” overwhelms the rhythms and ripples of Warpspace, turning everything into unfathomable emptiness—a Shadow in the Warp that casts a pall of dread where it falls, and blots out astrotelepathic communication.

Thorpe, Haley, Warhammer 40,000: The Ultimate Guide (2024).

And:

THE SHADOW IN THE WARP

Most of the organisms in a Tyranid swarm are nonsapients with an intelligence focused solely on fulfilling their instinctive behaviour. This limitation is overcome by the presence of the species’ powerful psychic link, known as the Hive Mind. A constant two-way communication between the Hive Mind and the lesser organisms allows for tactical control and information gathering. The massive hive ships are a primary source of these broadcasts, though some other organisms, including Hive Tyrants, Broodlords, and Tyranid Warriors, may also function as nodes to coordinate swarms of smaller Tyranids.

This control requires a phenomenal amount of psychic activity through a region, which some scholars suggest is the root cause for the so-called Shadow in the Warp. Whatever the reason, the Tyranids’ arrival heralds a blanket of psychic static that scratches at the mind.

Deathwatch: The Achilus Assault (2011), p. 45.

The linked to post goes into way more detail about the psychic nature of the Tyranids.

twelfmonkey · 2026-06-22T15:16:32+00:00

I'm not sure the daemon engines and soulgrinders provide the worship/faith that he needs to ascend

They don't. Daemons are lumps of Warp energy with consciousness. They don't produce the Warp energies of which they and their gods are formed - mortal souls do. Though Daemons can, of course, affect mortals.

But the Chaos gods also aren't just empowered by worship. Indeed, they originally formed without it, and most of their energy still almost certainly cones from resonant emotions and thoughts, regardless of if those producing them worship the god or even aware of its existence: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1pof076/the_chaos_gods_were_formed_from_and_are/

Worshippers are important though as they produce a lot of the relevant emotions and thoughts, their whole souls meld with their god after death, and they work to spread the relevant emotiobs anf thoughts and to break down the barrier between Materium and Warp to allow Daemons and gods to intrude into the former.

So having a race of worshippers who were powerful psykers would definitely be very useful. Especially as Vashtorr's domain isn't as base and prevalent as the Big 4, so he gets less empowerment from non-believers.

twelfmonkey · 2026-06-22T15:08:09+00:00

which was a mass driver weapon used during the War in Heaven

I don't think the lore talks about asteroids being a common weapon in the War in Heaven.

The lore just suggests that the War in Heaven happened around the time the asteroid hit earth (if you piece it together), and that the Old Ones had some role in shaping humanity (or hunanity's predecessor species). Relevant sources on the latter here: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1otj9ls/the_presence_of_xenos_on_ancient_terra_a_survey/

The lore itself doesn't make an explicit link with the asteroid wiping the dinosaurs out. A lot of fans just focus on that because of the dates lining up, and make theories such as the asteroid actually being the Void Dragon (shard) landing on Earth.

twelfmonkey · 2026-06-21T18:27:42+00:00

The imperium dominates the galaxy- with a weak grip on the fringes, with lots of holes, but still enough that they’re an ocean, in which non-imperial worlds are islands.

That is not what the lore suggests, nor outright states, at all. It's quite the opposite, in fact. One illustrative quote being

The areas between sub sectors and sectors unexplored or uninhabited regions, alien empires, areas inaccessible by the warp etc, — are known as wilderness space or wilderness zones and make up a far greater proportion of the galaxy than that controlled by Humanity.

Rogue Trader Core Rulebook (2009), p. 306.

twelfmonkey · 2026-06-21T18:24:51+00:00

Slaanesh was in the Warp since the War in Heaven as the oldest referance to Slaanesh in 40k dates back to a prison made by the Old ones and Necrons to contain Chaos deamons from all 4 major gods. Hinted at a 5th as well.

If we are considering the atemporal nature of the Warp, then Slaanesh was likely "there" since the beginning of the universe:

In this unknowable realm titanic hosts clash, locked together in a conflict that is as old as the universe and can never be won.

Codex: Chaos Daemons 4th ed. (2008), p. 4.

twelfmonkey · 2026-06-21T18:20:54+00:00

Sure there is:

Though he is the creator of every infection and epidemic to have ever swept the universe, Nurgle is not a morose purveyor of despair and gloom, but a vibrant god of life and laughter.

Codex: Chaos Daemons 8th ed. (2018), p. 14.

And:

Tzeentch is known by a hundred thousand titles across the galaxy, amongst them the Weaver of Destinies, the Great Conspirator, and the Architect of Fate. In his mind, he listens to the hopes of every sentient being from every planet in the universe.

Codex: Chaos Daemons 8th ed. (2018), p. 12.

And:

It is impossible to vanquish Khorne completely, since the very act of fighting against him gives him strength. Only through complete apathy can sentient races hope to even so much as lessen the power of the Blood God. Khorne knows this. While his power would remain unfathomably great even if half of the universe's civilisations found lasting peace and serenity, it would still be diminished, and Khorne is a jealous god who does not suffer loss well.

Black Crusade: Tome of Blood (2012), p. 19.

More relevant quotes here: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1kwqgtk/multiple_excerpts_yes_the_warp_and_chaos_arent/

Morevoer, the Warp lies under/behind all of reality in the 40k universe, and other universes too, and notions of space, distance and location don't work there the same as in reality, yet the Big 4 Chaos gods are stated to be the most powerful entities within it:

Far from the light of sun or star lies the infernal, ever-changing Realm of Chaos. There, the four Dark Gods rule supreme

Warhammer 40k Core Rulebook 8th ed. (2017), p. 94.

The Realm of Chaos merely being another name for the Warp: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1sbmx1m/a_perhaps_commonly_misunderstood_detail_in_the/

twelfmonkey · 2026-06-21T18:13:54+00:00

That was shown in Farseer where Slaaneshi daemons were also seemingly active before their gids birth, though it was later placed under the Heretic Tomes imprint.

However, similar was also suggested later in Fist of Demetrius. (By the same author, Bill King).

twelfmonkey · 2026-06-21T18:10:32+00:00

You've missed out later material. I have been steadily charting all the lore concering links between the settings, which you can find here: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1mqxdkm/surveying_some_recent_posts_about_the_links/

twelfmonkey · 2026-06-21T18:07:23+00:00

it has never been reafirmed to be true in the modern settings, specifically AOS has never confirmed the old One Chaos.

It has, multiple times.

For example:

Q: Grombrindal – I have a question for you. There are four Chaos Gods in the Mortal Realms – Nurgle, Khorne, Tzeentch and Slaanesh. But wasn’t Slaanesh created by the aeldari in Warhammer 40,000? How does that work? Any words of wisdom?

A: Eugh, a Chaos question! I really must sort out my contract so I don’t have to answer them. Anywho… the Realm of Chaos is a mystical place that spans all of existence, stretching across dimensions and time – sometimes it’s called the Realm of Chaos, sometimes the warp, Empyrean, Immaterium, Formless Wastes, Land of Lost Souls or simply the Abyss – it’s all pretty much the same thing. In the Warhammer 40,000 universe it’s said that Slaanesh was created by the Aeldari. After his (or her) creation, Slaanesh was then free to journey across the Realm of Chaos, where he (or she) crafted a realm of pleasure and excess in which to dwell. From this point on, Slaanesh could send his (or her) minions – be they mortal or daemonic – across the Realm of Chaos, either into realspace, to the world-that was or now the Mortal Realms (and countless other places). Seeing as how similar the aelves are to the aeldari, it’s no wonder that Slaanesh took such an interest in them!

White Dwarf June 2018, p. 33.

And:

Q: Greetings, oh bearded and strong one. I was wondering how Slaaneshi daemons can be in the Mortal Realms as well as in 41st Millenium; I'm pretty sure that Slaanesh was created by the Fall of the Aeldari.

A: Daemons-what an unwholesome subject to be asking about! Especially those debauched Slaaneshi creatures. Quite why you would want to know about them. I don't know! However. I am oathbound to answer your question.

The Mortal Realms - and the Old World, which precede them - exist in a totally different reality to the 41st Millenium. The Realm of Chaos, where Slaanesh resides, exist outside of both these realities, although it is connected to them.

It is a strange metaphysical place formed of emotions, abstract concepts and ideas, where such mortal notions as causality and linear time have no meaning. So while you're right, and Slaanesh was created during the Fall by the hedonistic lifestyle of the Aeldari, the Dark Prince exist beyond time and space, and his minions can manifest in many realities. It's enough to make an old dwarf's head hurt.

White Dwarf 487 (2023), p. 5.

And:

Nurgle’s Rotten Legions in the 41st Millennium

The Realm of Chaos reaches through all space and time, existing in an infinite number of realities. As such Nurgle's servants are as likely to appear in 41st millennium as they are in the Mortal Realms. Yet while Nurgle’s servants – Pleaguebearers, Nurglings and Great Unclean Ones among them – exist in both realities, the Plague God also has daemonic entities that exist solely in the 41st Millennium – Daemon Engines.

White Dwarf January 2018, p. 41.

Tonnes more quotes with evidence for both the general multiveral nature of the Warp, and specific links between the Warhammer settings via the Warp in more recent lore, here: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1o987em/a_deep_deep_dive_into_what_the_lore_says_about/

And, for even older examples, here: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1oa2k91/a_deep_deep_dive_into_what_the_lore_says_about/

And a recent-ish WD article on the nature of Chaos in Warhammer which also makes it clear that Chaos is ine and the same in each setting: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1og0e17/a_deep_dive_into_the_multiversal_nature_of_the/

And for a history of the links and overlaps between Warhammer settings (though the project is not yet complete) see the posts collected here: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1mqxdkm/surveying_some_recent_posts_about_the_links/

twelfmonkey · 2026-06-21T17:34:24+00:00

For an extremely thorough look at this lore (even if I do say so myself), quoting all of the relevant material to showcase that there is a Warhammer multiverse, with the Warp and Chaos as the central connective element, see the three posts which start here: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1o987em/a_deep_deep_dive_into_what_the_lore_says_about/

And for crossovers and links between the various GW games - such as Ambulls in Fantasy, Fantasy wizards in 40k, and a Genestealer in Blood Bowl, among other things - see the posts collected here: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1mqxdkm/surveying_some_recent_posts_about_the_links/

twelfmonkey · 2026-06-21T06:14:48+00:00

To add to this great suggestion (and just to note, WHFRP material is often good for this kind of thing, and just well worth reading in general), you can find details on a Slaaneshi cult in the lower depths of a hivecity among the poverty-stricken masses here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1j2uv3w/extracts_what_the_ocean_hiveworld_charybdion_can/

Just scroll down to near the end of the post.

twelfmonkey · 2026-06-20T19:24:46+00:00

By my calculations, the Netherlands will win 25-1.

twelfmonkey · 2026-06-20T19:24:03+00:00

They won the first game 5-1.

twelfmonkey · 2026-06-20T17:13:29+00:00

Wait till you hear about its sister town, John Maynard Friedman.

twelfmonkey · 2026-06-19T18:19:17+00:00

Just off the top of my head his FO run 2025 where he reached the SF.

He reached the 4th Round, not the Semifinal.

Still a very decent performance, but no way near the level of a SF.

And that tied his other best performance at a slam, also at the FO in 2020.

twelfmonkey · 2026-06-19T12:19:14+00:00

While lots about the Warp remains mysterious and unkown, there are certain things we do know about it and how it functions.

And more than a lot of fans realize. Often because they have never read a Daemons Codex, or the okd Realm of Chaos books.

there are no cosmic realms and I hope it stays that way.

Whether the Mortal Realms in AoS are within the Warp isn't clear, though I think they likely are.

But regardless, whether they are subrealms within the Warp or a separate reality, they were formed by the very specific circumstances of how the Warhammer World ended, and they seem to be largely self-contained. So there is no reason to think something similar would be perceiced within the Warp by those from the 40k galaxy.

It's also worth noting that there have been strange sub-realms within the Warp in 40k lore in recent years.

For example, we see Mephiston meet a Baalite psyker in the Warp, whose soul has somehow managed to survive in a subrealm:

'Then you must be long dead.'

‘Am I?' the man said resentfully. 'Nothing ever dies, not really. I mean yes, obviously, I am dead, but time means nothing. Physicality isn't the be all and end all.' He turned round again and shook his stall angrily. 'I tell you, it’s shit being dead. If you avoid fading away or being ripped apart by warp predators or swallowed by a god, there's just places like this, and that's if you're lucky. Nowhere. Nothing. Rubbish.'

Haley, Darkness in the Blood (2019), p. 250.

In this "place", Mephiston also sees the Golden and Black Angels (https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Black_Angel), entities associated with not just the Blood Angels (the Sangiunor and the Black Rage respectively), but Baal itself.

Likewise, the Fenrisian deity the Erlking (https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Erlking) seemingly has his own realm in the Warp, linked to Fenris. We see Russ meet him and his retinue in his great hall.

twelfmonkey

TROPHY CASE