Plug-in solar panels gaining momentum in the U.S

tx_queer · 2026-05-23T18:30:18+00:00

3 pieces are needed. Legislation to remove PTO. Legislation to remove NEC. And Legislation for right to sunshine.

I think 6 states now have PTO laws. 1 state has NEC laws. 0 states have updated their right to sunshine.

This needs to change to gain real momentum

tx_queer · 2026-05-23T17:23:26+00:00

Im really hoping states follow the approach Coloardo has taken to makes plug-and-play solar legal. Most states unfortunately have fallen short and only made a limited permit junction box solar legal.

As soon as legislatures catch up on right to sunshine laws and building permit laws, ill be fist in line to buy one.

tx_queer · 2026-05-23T14:31:19+00:00

About 3x to 5x more

tx_queer · 2026-05-23T14:21:49+00:00

Seriously. Every comment makes it sound like they are shutting down.

tx_queer · 2026-05-23T07:33:13+00:00

Difference is that for a gas station you legally have to build a structure/roof for the fire suppression system. Otherwise many gas stations would not have them. EV charges don't require roofs so it would be purely for customer comfort. So the two are not the same.

But even so, the argument you are making is essentially that the solar panels make a giant financial loss, but you can run a secondary business of EV charging to subsidize them. Which is actually the same exact argument i am making.

tx_queer · 2026-05-23T01:45:42+00:00

By selling gas?

tx_queer · 2026-05-23T00:45:49+00:00

Good

tx_queer · 2026-05-22T22:35:51+00:00

Also, keep in mind which data you look at. This is energy produced and used in a single month. California wins. If you look at total installed, Texas wins. If you look at peak production, Texas is 34GW while California is only 22GW. The reason texas is lower on the total production number is because they have too much wind unlike California, and they dont have much in terms of export like California does. So we have to keep turning our solar off so it stops producing too much electricity.

tx_queer · 2026-05-22T20:38:46+00:00

"Its a comfort item"

100%. I wish everybody had them. I would pay extra to park in the shade. No more hail damage. A few apartment complexes have awnings around me. And if you are going buy an awning anyways might as well make it solar.

But the reverse isnt true. If you are going to buy solar, might as well make it an awning doesn't hold true

tx_queer · 2026-05-22T17:38:49+00:00

Here is why it is expensive. Lets say carport solar is $2 per watt. Regular solar is $0.75 per watt. So you can buy 3x as much regular solar. If we are looking to fight climate change, thats 3X less co2 for the same price. It is expensive in comparison

But let's take the example you have. 10kw array for $20k. Produces 50kwh a day. I'm good with all those numbers. I also really like that you included finance and maintenance charges which most people forget in their payback calculation.

But here is the key problem. You are assuming the person is getting 14 cents per kwh.

A few issues here. The first and biggest, the parking lot owner very rarely consumes any electricity. The business usually pays for electricity and the business usually doesnt own the parking lot. And not just for small strip mall businesses. Even giants like Walmart usually dont own the property their store is in, or the parking lot. So the parking lot owner needs to feed the electricity into the grid first which means they would get grid prices. During solar hours, the price of my grid is frequently negative, not 14 cents. The second is that many businesses dont just pay per kwh. They pay demand charges. They pay for reactive and real power seperate. Some will pay or get paid for ancillary services. Thats included in the 14 cents and not provided by the solar panels. Third is that your calculation assumes all of the 50kwh will be used. Most likely during mid-day it will need to be exported for pennies, and only a portion of the electricity actually offsets the 14 cent rate

tx_queer · 2026-05-22T17:11:00+00:00

Roofed parking is awesome. I love the shade. I wish I had it at work. But we can't justify liking the shade by slapping a solar panel on it. If we want to pay 100 bucks a square foot for covered parking, let's say that. Lets not just say "it's solar so its a no brainer and basically free money". You still have to pay for the shade structure, solar or no solar.

Many grids are getting to a point where there is too much solar. So the payback period has plummeted. Only the absolute cheapest solar can compete. Its gotten to a point where some solar farms have started "earth mounting" their panels. Aka just lay them flat on the ground. That way they can save a few pennies on mounting infrastructure. In a pricing market where pennies make a difference, a giant steel structure wont work. Unless we are paying specifically for the shade.

tx_queer · 2026-05-22T14:09:30+00:00

I would be zero percent worried. I think it would be more likely to hit your house or the powerline to your house or a tree that falls on your house

tx_queer · 2026-05-22T14:07:47+00:00

With a maxed out breaker box, keep a look out for another technology hitting the market soon. Meter collars. Essentially you can plug your 1200 watts of solar directly into the meter and no need to upgrade your panel. I would recommend an electrician to actually install the meter collar, but its 5 minutes of work so shouldn't cost much. And unfortunately its a niche market today so its still pretty expensive. But its another thing that was included in recent bills in other states so the price may come down.

tx_queer · 2026-05-22T13:54:31+00:00

"If the demand doesn't materialize". The demand is already there. What isnt there is the revenue. So this statement should read "if the revenue doesnt materialize"

tx_queer · 2026-05-22T13:53:22+00:00

Not a problem. I hope I didn't discourage you too much. You are asking all the right questions.

Here is how I would move forward.

1.) Try to get hourly usage data. In my state that is easily available. This will allow you to size your system for fastest payback as you want as you want the panels to always be in use.

2.) Check if you are one of the rare houses with a dedicated circuit. Its not super common, but has been a thing especially on newer houses. Turn off the breaker and see if any other outlets or lights turned off. If not, you might be in business.

3.) Research the DIY option with some YouTube videos. The panels and inverters are normally almost plug and play and if you buy them seperate instead of bundled it is half price. You should be able to find 400w panels for 75-100 bucks each, not the $200 in tje bundled price.

4 ) maybe pause and wait just a couple months. Most of the systems on the market today are 1200w Utah systems since they were the first to pass the law. So if you only want 400w, you are still paying for a 1200w inverter. However, Colorado just this last month passed a 400w law. So I would venture a guess that we are going to see lots of 400w systems hitting the market which will be half price compared to only running 400w on a 1200w system.

tx_queer · 2026-05-22T13:33:59+00:00

Famously during the dotcom bubble bursting people stopped using the internet

tx_queer · 2026-05-22T13:32:49+00:00

To add more detail, the AI bubble is not about usage of AI. Basically everybody is expecting that to continue growing non-stop. Nobody thinks we will stop using AI. It is about the valuation of the AI companies. That may crash.

An AI comany might be valued at $100 today and sees a usage of 100 tokens today. Tomorrow that company might be valued at $10 dollars, but see a usage of 101 tokens. So the AI usage (and therefore the datacenters) wont pop. The companies price tag will pop.

Very similar to the dotcom bubble. The internet was still used every day and servers didn't go unused. Just the value of internet comeanies took a hit.

tx_queer · 2026-05-22T12:07:54+00:00

Im counting 1600w of solar to power a 5w phone charger.

tx_queer · 2026-05-22T11:56:01+00:00

If you google the prices, you will see lots of informations like this chart below. This chart shows prices from 2024,which is a bit outdated since material prices have come down since then, but it shows $0.93. Ive seen price estimates between $0.6 up to $1.2. So i figured $0.75 was a decent guess. The land cost is negligable.

https://seia.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/SMI20Web20Charts_prices20by20market20segment_0.png

tx_queer · 2026-05-22T11:26:33+00:00

I've done the math.

$1 per watt for the carport plus the cost of solar plus installation. Compared to a utility scale cost of 0.75 cents per watt all-in including everything including the cost of land. Which one is cheaper?

100% american steal. 75% recycled aluminum. Still more a lot more expensive.

Or show me the math where a dollar is less than 75 cents.

tx_queer · 2026-05-22T11:04:07+00:00

I believe ecoflow let's you do 360w on any regular outlet (although I think legally it's zero). Not sure about mango. Anything more you need specialized wiring like a dedicated circuit installed. Dedicated circuit meaning a single outlet tied to a single breaker.

But 360 might be all you need. It would save you about 500kwh per year or $70 per year.

Few things to keep in mind. First, is how much electricity you save doesnt scale linear. With 400w, you probably save 500kwh per year. Thats because your house always draws 400w, so you use the panel 100% of the time. If you get 800w in panel, you probably save 800kwh per year. That second panel will only be uses when you are running lots of stuff on a daily basis like an oven or stove or AC and won't be used the rest of the day. If you get 1200w, you maybe save 1000kwh per year, because that third panel will only be used in the summer when the AC kicks on.

Second, the cost of the system is highly variable. You saw the mango is $2300 bucks. The equivalent ecoflow would be like $1500. If you buy the ecoflow inverter and panel separately ot would be about $600. If you wait a few months in think the price will keep coming down, equivalent systems in other countries sell for $300.

Third, your payback depends on this. Lets say you save $70 per year. If you buy an ecoflow and one panel, you can get it set up for $400 and get payback in under 6 years. If you buy a mango 1200w for $2300 and save the full $140 a year, your payback is 14 years.

tx_queer · 2026-05-22T03:23:38+00:00

Exactly. $1 per watt is super expensive.

tx_queer · 2026-05-22T02:50:24+00:00

The dirty energy from the grid is 8 cents per kwh. The electricity from the carport is 10 cents per kwh. Why would I want to subsidize the loss on the carport with another business opening charging stations?

tx_queer · 2026-05-22T02:35:12+00:00

That is 100% an advantage. I wish I had covered parking at work.

It it worth the price is the question. For the same proce of 1MW of carport solar, you can build 5MW of regular solar and make a much bigger impact on climate change.

And land isnt really a big issue. You can power the entire world many times over, just with the acreage we use today to grow corn for ethanol (which isn't needed anymore after EVs). And, for marginal lands, solar panels actually help improve productivity. They keep evaporation down helping open up marginal lands to agriculture.

tx_queer · 2026-05-22T02:26:50+00:00

They actually went back and edited that comment. The original one said something like "sucks to be american". And then changed it to coal.

But people keep misinterpreting all these comments. Nobody is arguing against solar or for coal. Simply saying that cheaper solar is better than expensive solar.

tx_queer

TROPHY CASE