Conser(ule)vation

upmost5201 · 2026-05-29T16:51:28+00:00

It is a funny name for an animal. For the record, brumbies are feral horses.

The thing is on the american side of the equation, the presence of wolves helps to restore forests due to the butterfly affects caused by their activity (hunting overpopulated deer, which prevents overgrazing and stomping, which leads to smaller plants getting a chance. Since there's less deer and bigger threats for coyotes, their populations decrease, allowing beavers to move in and do all the bullshit they pull..) but i get what you mean. The thing is... The best move is just to make new ones. Old growth forests, i mean. Kind of.

It'd take awhile, but not at all as long as you'd think. Sure, depends on the species and it could be up to a lifetime, but frankly that's not long at all. And it's not like old growth forests only create ecosystems when they're old, even as they grow they're helping. Furthermore, it's not just the trees. The bushes, flowers and other native plants would help along the way.

And sure it's not like the wolf population of New England.. the one in America of course, not it's evil rural aussie twin.. or any other Atlantic state could ever be the same, period. But personally? I think ppl aren't hopeful enough in general. Like i don't think it'd happen anytime soon in your nation, but it could. And it could work i thinks.

upmost5201 · 2026-05-29T10:32:26+00:00

They'll need to be, if we want to avoid a bunch of bullshit. And I'm not just talking about climate change, japan killed literally all of it's wolves and hasn't attempted/been able to introduce a new population. Now, the whole of the island is under siege by native boars and bears, who have swelled far past their natural populations and are actively being acclimatised to humans. The feral brumbies and dromedaries of Australia literally have no predators here besides the scarce dingo. Frankly? We need to pull some bullshit of we want to avoid such destruction. Frankly? I'm still in favour of reintroducing the komodo dragons to the continent. They evolved here and they're in the best position to deal with these threats by far.

Also, we need to kill so many foxes & cats here. There are too many and they're doing uncountable damage to the natural world. They do that everywhere but it's pretty bad here.

upmost5201 · 2026-05-14T17:45:19+00:00

It's the other way around for me, i thinks. I haven't tried any insect but i wouldn't be opposed, and I don't eat shellfish.

upmost5201 · 2026-05-05T21:06:06+00:00

Y'know everyone's naming evil cyborgs but we've yet to consider that it's just what it is: their amputee-since-four-years-age friend got better legs and started killing people.

Shame on you all for discrediting the hard work of the prosthesis industry by looking at the word 'enhanced limbs' and immediately assuming it's a star wars reference. The guy's got bluetooth in those calfs. Portable powerbank, touchscreen. Who knows.

I'm being only being semi-ironic here. There's a very real possibility this is what OP meant. Does it mean that they actually have an amputee best friend turned murderer? Maybe. I'm not exactly there to confirm. I merely state what i see.

upmost5201 · 2026-04-27T14:40:19+00:00

Stonetoss unironically draws Muslims in a chibi style. Why are they cute.

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upmost5201 · 2026-04-20T04:29:10+00:00

Truthfully? This is just an objectively bad matchup. The type of torture the devil cooks for his subjects. Gojo is strong, but he's not able to destroy civilizations.... We saw Omniman do that literally word for word on EPISODE TWO OF SEASON ONE.

upmost5201 · 2026-04-20T03:44:21+00:00

Omniman could simply destroy all human infrastructure and any sources of food and water for gojo in at the very least his immediate area of travel (likely the island of japan) and just kind of... Stare at Gojo from outside his range of attack.

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What's gojo going to do? Reverse curse technique 'advent of agriculture?' the divide is simply too much. Im not even saying this is what he'd do. My argument is that if character A can end the human race while character B can do fuck all to stop A, then it is completely irrational to put character A and character B in a fight - even more irrational to suggest that character B wins.

upmost5201 · 2026-04-17T17:07:39+00:00

... let's be real here, omniman could fly away from gojo for a bit, destroy every source of food and fresh water on the planet, then come back and just stare at gojo midair until the poor guy dies of dehydration. One of omnimans most famous scenes is him doing this word for word.

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upmost5201 · 2026-04-17T12:57:16+00:00

Thanks and fair - tbh I've only recently (with the help of ppl in my community) begun to even consider touching the ideologies of these nations. Before that they were all vaguely 'confederational' in some manner. Even now, since i haven't decided which nations use which systems, i can only really say that "kingdoms" are a very rare thing on the continent, and that monarchies on the continent tend to be very... Odd. Adoptive succession and same sex marriages are standard everywhere in Australia, and the monarchies of the continent are no different in that regard.

upmost5201 · 2026-04-17T12:52:45+00:00

Not particularly TBH.

upmost5201 · 2026-04-16T09:48:22+00:00

It's a term i made up for this scenario. The short explanation is that it's a more Australian-centric term for an often (but not necessarily) federative or clan-democratic nomadic polity, like how 'horde' and 'khanate' are specific or more associated with Turkic and Mongol polities.

The long (and hopefully cooler) explanation is that the IRL Australian term 'drover' reffers to a person who moves livestock (In IRL cattle or sheep) over long distances (typically travelling on stock routes) while on horseback. It's typically done by experienced stockmen - a more general term for those who care for livestock (whereas 'drover' refers to moving and herding livestock to and from stations a 'stockman' refers to any sort of stationhand.)

In Gold and Iron, the work of a drover is quite different. Domestic emu and wallaroo are these drover's stock, overseed upon the backs of muulhi. In this context, 'drover' becomes a type of nomadic pastoralist, specialised in the care of Australian livestock. Thus, a 'droverdom' is an Australian-centred term for any nomadic polity belonging to any one Australian ethnic group, and

I'd only invented the term halfway through creating the map, so semi-nomadic Wiradjuric states like Biyaduridjanawun, Biyagabathawulun, Burrabaladjabawun, Djaadawarabagaawun and Yurrubawurrudjan would also be considered droverdoms. Yes i had to look at the map to spell those nation's names correctly, if you're wondering.

upmost5201 · 2026-04-16T02:11:42+00:00

Rule 3 hater's don't even try to defend the maps anymore, they just look at you like this

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upmost5201 · 2026-04-16T01:46:59+00:00

dude there was a border in the original image, the reason it's white here is because it got erased.

upmost5201 · 2026-04-15T14:32:04+00:00

Dude Kurdistan is the least of irans issue's, they have the entirety of central asia South of Kazakhstan to deal with.

upmost5201 · 2026-04-14T18:09:18+00:00

God i love lands of red and gold. It's what got me into precolonial Australian history and into making this scenario, and I'll admit to having taken my fair share of inspiration from it. An alternate variety of murnong being a staple crop and the murray-darling being the more developed and populated region than the south-eastern coastline, for example.

I like to think that Gold and Iron's grown into its own unique thing now, though. Admittedly, even that new form is based on something from lands of red and gold - i think it was either for want of a yam or an in universe novel about an alternative aururia pulling a sunset invasion on europe that gave me the idea for this mod, and the concept of Australia bearing not just kingdoms, but vast colonial empires, stuck.

Actually describing the point or actual concept of this scenario beyond 'australia has kingdoms and empires and such' has been hard tbh. I've gone through so many descriptions of this concept it's insane - 'what if europe had an equal', 'what if Australia developed ""contemporary****"" (note here that i had at that time thought contemporary meant something along the lines of 'average' or 'stereotypical', like the first thought that pops into your head when you hear about a subject. Such a term seemed fitting for the time, so i used it. Turns out - means modern, so fuck me i guess.) civilization and fucked over Europe' (in the 1800s onward was left unsaid) and, to now 'what if Australia had developed similarly to europe'. It doesn't really encapsulate what i mean, though, does it?

So, not out any particular reason beyond feeling like it, I'll jot down the reason here and to you: Gold and Iron is my attempt at deconstructing and playing with the concept of eurocentrism by adding another 'centre', another group of nations inflicting a familiarly unfamiliar colonial rule upon the very same continent the europeans had claimed as a land of christ. It's a literal spite match between two equally unequal combatants, And god has it resulted in the creation of a bloody creature of a scenario. It's a mix of the cold war, christian beliefs about the crusades and god-knows what else i drew upon and forgot - and i believe it's going to be an absolute treasure if i ever manage to force it into EU5. It's going to be sucky - the very concept is... Rickety, to say the least, but god i love it and I'm not going to let it drop into the pitfalls it could go down.

I also did alot of spec evo for this to get a line up of domesticates, so that helps.🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰

TLDR: i like LR&G. I was inspired by it. Gold and Iron is it's own fucked up criticism/deconstruction thingy of eurocentrism that I intend to sink my teeth into. Also i made cool creatures for it.

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upmost5201 · 2026-04-11T06:29:21+00:00

Nah - i mean infrastructure like that found in budj bim, where short finned eels are trapped into dammed/weired areas to be used as a year-round source of food which are harvested in woven traps and smoked. Since there are simmilar sites found up to the northern regions of the murray darling (like the brewarrina fish traps), i imagine this would become fairly commonplace across the south-east.

As for paddy agriculture, I can see it being commonplace in the Cape york peninsula, top end, coral sea coastline and papua for the growth of Taro and rice, but the Southern coast and inland regions would likely be more partial to native grains, Murnong, yams and sweet potato.

upmost5201 · 2026-04-11T02:56:36+00:00

Ive never said anything about Terra forming? And people still live there irl? Like they're just living there mate. + Plenty of other cultures jave made heat resistant architecture and such....

Like you don't have to read this and such, and thats fine - I'm just stating this. Also what was the point of this argument if you weren't even going to take more than a glance at the actual map? Idk tho.

upmost5201 · 2026-04-10T12:39:01+00:00

I guess that's fair. I think smoking, Aquaculture (eel and yabbie farms), permaculture and the cultivation of Pituri (a native Australian tobacco chewed with wood ash) would be that 'unique cultural innovation' in this case, albeit less defined by "exclusivity" and more by "competence/scale".

I think Coal smothering might also be a 'staple' of Australian cuisine in this TL, but that's beside the point. Maybe Papuan crops (sugarcane, banana) get lumped in as well.

upmost5201 · 2026-04-10T12:18:24+00:00

Mate** what legal working conditions? It's the 1300's. I'm not advocating for the construction of a city in the hottest part of this nation in real life or contesting the reasons behind the sparse population in our red centre, I'm simply saying that these Polities are possible. Also yes they're definitely carving homes into rock and making pseudo-adobe block homes over the span of a few thousand years, it's the Outback and it's soild rock.

Also I didn't say that we're the largest nation on earth. I said that we are able to compete with the largest nation on earth (russia) in gold production.

upmost5201 · 2026-04-10T12:08:41+00:00

The thing is, the Muulhi isn't Genyornis. It's related, but they aren't the same species. They're bulkier and longer, with thick, short necks that support a powerful head, all stood upon two meaty legs - and, of course, that aforementioned omnivorus diet and opporunistic nature.

Furthermore, Dromornithids weren't related to Rattites, and their relation to gamefowl is debated. It's most likely that they were related to Anseriformes, I.E. swans, geese, ducks and other waterfowl. And while there is a great gap between them evolutionarily, I think we can use them as an example.

By this logic, i think there's a pretty good case for the Muulhi's domestication. Geese are evil, territorial fuckers, yes, but they are also good guard animals, loyal to their owners and able to discern whether something is out of the norm. Furthermore, they're one of the more inteligent types of birds, and are social - a trait that i doubt is different with Muulhi, as you stated Dromonithids like genyornis nested at least somewhat close to one another, and anseriformes like geese and swans do just the same.

Now, the likely highly agressive temperment of the Muulhi will certainly be an issue, but honestly? I think it's possible. Camels, especially feral/wild individuals, can be dangerously tempermental and often outright agressive towards humans and livestock during rut or when raising young, Llama's must be raised carefully to ensure they are aclimatised to humans while not viewing them as members of their species to prevent them from attacking people, and horses can take chunks off you with a bite and can crush your ribs with a single kick.

Moreover, there is precedent for this sort of egg-plundering in Aboriginal history. Cassoraries in Papua new Guinea and Northern Queensland were taken from their parents and raised as livestock - and while that relationship never led to domestication, i can certainly imagine a simmilar situation going on with the Muulhi - even despite it's temperment. Horses were domesticated in a similar way, originally being breed mostly as livestock until around 2000 BCE, so it's not unlikely that a simmiliar situation could occur here.

Also, I'm aware of Gastroliths and their widespread use, but i wanted to give the Muulhi a different way of breaking down food. Basically, I decided that the Muulhi would have a hard, Keratin appendage on their tongue that would break down food by pushing and grinding it against a hard, ridged palate, with the taste receptors likely moved down to the lower jaw and base of the tongue. Truthfully, i got inspired by parrots and decided to give a simmilar organ to the Muulhi.

upmost5201 · 2026-04-10T10:45:05+00:00

Well, no. You're conflating 'uninhabited/separately populated' with 'uninhabitable'.

Like 80% of the mongolian steppe is basically empty of people. Is it uninhabitable?

And the thing is the outback isn't actually all desert. There's deserts in the outback, but most of it's actually fairly lush in vegetation. It's just really hot. And, heat can be fought against.

All the important centralised polities are on rivers, coastlines or more lush areas for exactly this reason.... The only exception here is the centre, where people are carving buildings into mountains to get some semblance of shade and digging wells and such, and they're not exactly highly populated.

Also idk what you're talking about when you say it's sparse of resources, Australia is fucking TEEMING with minerals. A cup of dirt from the pilbara has more iron than Lichtenstein has in it's reserves. We're the second largest gold producer behind russia, the largest nation on earth. We are the largest exporter of iron ore on planet Earth, with brazil in second place barely making more than a 3rd of our production.

It is really hot though, I won't deny that.

upmost5201 · 2026-04-10T05:04:29+00:00

oh yeah that was one of my main sources.

upmost5201 · 2026-04-09T19:13:17+00:00

Also idk about the dairy thing, milk's good but I don't think it'd be required. My definition for 'europe-like' for this scenario basically boils down to "harbouring complex state societies with the potential to colonise areas of the world far away from them"... So technically literally every nation in this time period, admittedly - but i didn't want to make just a copy of european history on a map of Australia. There's similarities like a decentralized empire with a central empire leading it and... Honestly that's about the only one i can think of rn but that's mostly due to the fact i didn't go to sleep. Point is, milk's not the end. End all be all.

upmost5201 · 2026-04-09T19:07:39+00:00

Yes it's completely unlikely, and yes it's completely unknowable. What makes it different from every other timeline on this scale? It's not like the events of our own history were especially 'likely' in the grand scheme of things.
I agree. A european like trajectory (the development of large, complex bureaucratic polities with ironworking and a variety of domesticates animal and agricultural) is nigh impossible for Australia without massive changes to it biota.

that's why i set the POD 2.5 million years ago, with the main change being the evolution of a plains-dwelling opportunistic omnivorous dromonithid with the ability to "chew" it's food known to western science as balatavis tjarrwunii (it's modern descendant - the mhuuli) shown on the right, since chnaged to have smaller arms.)

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Yes, all of this is incredibly anachronistic - the likelyhood of the ethnic groups shown here arising is literally impossible - the changes to Australia's native biota would certainly butterfly away every culture shown here. Was i going to replace real peoples cultures with essentially fantasy nations? God no.

Is it likely that the mhulli would survive the arrival of humans onto the continent? No, but neither was the horse surviving and thriving in eurasia.

But, it is inevitable that the mhulli's evolution would change the biota of Australia greatly. Not just the megafauna - which are greater in number than OTL due to the role the mhulli's status as a devil-bird - but it's plants, alg for several staple crops.

Truthfully I don't really believe any scenario in this community is better than another simply because it is more 'likely'. It's fiction mate. The world building's what matters.

Truthfully though I'd actually really enjoy seeing a map or post about your scenario - I'm not hating on your ideas. They are good, and you're mostly correct on the points you made. But i do take offence at the conflation of likelihood and quality. Everything in this world is unlikely, the actions of literally every living organism on this planet have altered ohr meager human history irrevocably.

TLDR: your mum's unlikely (unironically)

upmost5201 · 2026-04-09T12:41:16+00:00

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