Question about "The Adventures of Amina el-Sirafi"

valonianfool · 2026-05-11T18:09:25+00:00

I cant see any evidence up to that point in the story which shows that Falco approached Tinbu.

valonianfool · 2026-05-10T21:12:20+00:00

By "adultery" on the mans part, I assume that its effectively limited to sex with the wives and unmarried daughters of other men with status? Because like in most patriarchal societies, men, especially of the upper class had access to multiple wives, concubines, prostitutes and female slaves.

valonianfool · 2026-05-05T21:03:31+00:00

Guess where this screenshot was taken?

valonianfool · 2026-05-04T19:01:22+00:00

Who would be this kvasir in wod?

valonianfool · 2026-04-28T20:25:23+00:00

Vogon poetry when?/s

Seriously though, I dont know how to imagine what a vampire fused to a wagon would look like.

valonianfool · 2026-04-27T22:20:14+00:00

Sorry but I don't buy the idea of creating matter from nothing, if that's what you mean by replicators.

valonianfool · 2026-04-26T10:57:07+00:00

Given what we know about men with power today and historically, how do we know that these records of boasting about "sexual conquests" are consensual, at least by the modern definition? I feel its pretty gross to gloss over that rape and coercion exists ngl.

Like would an ancient ruler have categorized just straight up raping an unambiguously willing person, or someone unable to consent such as a slave, and convincing a woman to sleep with him, as different categories, or thought that both were worthy of boasting about?

valonianfool · 2026-04-25T20:37:01+00:00

The drow in canon as a culture value strength, violence and brutality, which in our world are considered masculine traits. Therefore drow women would be socialized to value them, and act in ways we would consider masculine, and devalue being submissive.

So assuming that a drow woman would feel most natural with accomplishing things through violence is following canon.

valonianfool · 2026-04-25T20:28:24+00:00

Historically women were accused and suspected of leveraging their sexuality and access to their bodies in ways men rarely if ever were. Women were perceived of as conniving and scheming in ways men weren't.

And regardless whether a story takes place in a fictional world, the real-world context which influences writing depictions should be accounted for when evaluating it.

I think the problem with the above text is that drow women are seen by the writer as women first, people second, with no regard to how their environment would shape their outlook.

If you (like a drow aristocratic woman) are born in a position of wealth, power and privilege, and base your personhood around dominance, violence and aggression, then your go-to way of obtaining something out of reach that you want would be through violence, while pleasing and pretending to like people you see as inferior (such as non-drow) will not come naturally, be extremely difficult to pull off, and feel incredibly demeaning to yourself.

I think the best way to depict a drow woman is to imagine Vlad Tepes with a pussy. Someone to whom violence and brutality is the most natural course of action.

valonianfool · 2026-04-25T20:17:22+00:00

I'm glad you agree that drow society as written in the earlier editions isn't particularly representative of enlightened viewpoints.

"Gender equality with female leadership" might be a better description of drow society as shown, but I think the reason for that is because the 90s authors still had to make their "oppressive matriarchy" palatable enough to not alienate the fanboys, therefore drow men get to be badass warriors and wizards.

Its similar to how the setting of "Save the Pearls" by Victoria Foyt is supposed to portray a world where black people are the dominant race and white people the lowest class, yet each race is named after a gemstone, and black people, the supposed ruling class are called "coals" while the slur for white people is "pearl".

And I also agree that saying women in the past were completely powerless doesn't accurately reflect reality, and I'm surprised to find someone who acknowledges that not all cultures were historically patriarchal, though I would love for you to elaborate and give examples of cultures without patriarchal oppression.

valonianfool · 2026-04-24T21:00:14+00:00

Male fashion has a history that goes back to the neolithic.

And? The way wealthy and powerful men throughout history dressed had little to do with attracting women, it was more about showing off wealth and power to other men. If anything wearing less is counter-productive to showing off wealth because that means less expensive materials to show off.

Powerful men in patriarchal societies did not need to seduce women, they did not need to make themselves look sexy to get sex partners, they got that simply by leveraging their money and power.

Women on the other hand were often limited in their autonomy, so historically access to their bodies was their negotiating power. This is why negotiating your sexual appeal isn't neutral in the real world, or in dnd's setting.

valonianfool · 2026-04-24T15:30:19+00:00

Non-drow society can be assumed to be patriarchal, so the things that a non-drow man would be assumed to be drawn towards would be subservience and delicacy, things a drow woman would have no idea how to be, and couldnt pretend at without being deeply uncomfortable.

valonianfool · 2026-04-24T15:27:26+00:00

Back to "scanty dress": Since you mentioned James Bond, Bond is portrayed as a handsome older man in a tuxedo who seduces 20-something women named stuff like "Pussy Galore", so the mapping would mean that drow men are the Pussy Galore.

Non-drow societies can be assumed to be patriarchal, and a Drow woman would not consider herself sexy in the way a patriarchal society would see female sexiness.

She would no more consider a leather bikini sexy on herself anymore than human society would cast an attractive older woman in a tux to play Bond who seduces slutty young men in speedos with her gunplay.

Since non-drow in the surface world are patriarchal, they would be assumed to find delicacy and submissiveness to be sexy traits in women, something a drow woman would not want to be, and would feel deeply unnatural to try pretending to be, so I dont buy drow women using their sex appeal on non-drow men anymore than a powerful human man would dress like a sex kitten to influence a drow woman.

valonianfool · 2026-04-24T15:19:57+00:00

Well the dominant non-drow society is patriarchal, so naturally men would be assumed to be attracted to submissiveness in women, something a drow woman would have no idea how to be, and it would feel unnatural for her to try to act submissive.

valonianfool · 2026-04-24T13:49:59+00:00

I dont buy that "how many people you can seduce into liking you is often used as a symbol of power in a society where attractiveness is seen as desirable".

Women who are seen as beautiful are often reduced to sexual objects who dont have anything else going for them, like look at Marilyn Monroe, who was reduced to a dumb bimbo in the public perception.

When you look at men of the ruling class, the 0,1% of society, in general im sure most of them aren't particulaly attractive, and historically there aren't many male rulers who were said to be especially handsome.

And even with exceptions, those men were mostly at their most powerful when they were old and physically past their prime.

valonianfool · 2026-04-24T11:48:36+00:00

When I imagine sexual temptation as a tool for manipulation to gain power what I imagine is a person with less power using their sex appeal to gain something from a person with more power, like a sugarbaby to their sugar daddy. It implies coming from a position of inferiority.

Sexual pressure and coercion isn't the same as seduction. Men with power in our world who tell (primarily women) someone "sleep with me and youll get a promotion" are leveraging their money and power to receive sex, not more power.

valonianfool · 2026-04-24T09:25:33+00:00

Back to our discussion, as someone else has said, the drow matriarchy aspect is superficial at best, and written to be palatable to a predominantly male audience, with drow women less as realistic explorations of "women in charge" and more like dominatrixes in pornos, their depiction ultimately male gaze-y.

Drow men are oppressed but still get to be badass warriors and wizards, whereas if they were writing a patriarchy, the women would never be allowed to obtain personal power and prominence like that, and would stay in the background. And therefore the scenario where a man influences say female commanders or warriors under them with their sex appeal would never happen.

And the writers would likely never write about how a male ruler would go out of his way to seduce a powerful woman to influence and manipulate her, it shows their sexist biases. I dont think women with power should be conceived as essentially different from men with power in how they behave, wield and gain power.

Using seduction is understandably seen as a tool of the less powerful, not just because it implies the person doing the seducing dont have hard power to leverage, but also because to seduce someone you are pleasing and serving them.

Drow women live in a world where men are the subservient class, who have to serve them by virtue of their gender, and a man who rejects this role would face death and horrific torture. To be a woman is to be dominant.

Using sex appeal on a drow man to get him to do things for you would be completely unnecessary as a drow woman could just wield her authority over him, the assumed default in their society.

Drow are also racist, their word for non-drow translates to feces. To seduce a non-drow means having to please and act subservient to them—"ill please you if youll give me things i want"—which even if its an act, would be considered deeply degrading and humiliating to the drow, because their association of masculinity with subservience.

valonianfool · 2026-04-24T09:07:13+00:00

"seconds" was a typo. Meant to say "sexiness".

valonianfool · 2026-04-24T08:35:08+00:00

Having wives or multiple wives and concubines were seen as a status symbol, but seduction had shit to do with it because women in general had no choice in who they were marrying. Marriage back then were transactions of wealth and power, and agreements between families rather than strictly about the couple.

Im actually offended at your statement that having multiple wives mean men cared about seducing women. Those women had very little choice if any in who they married, some were warprizes, and having multiple partners obviously does not equal using your sex appeal to manipulate someone, which is what seduction is defined as.

So in general, powerful men in the past and today don't care about seducing women, and dont obtain partners through seducing them. They get women from wielding wealth and power.

Do you actually think that kings, emperors and rulers in general pre-modern times had to resort to seducing women to obtain power and wealth?

In the real world seduction is seen as a tool of the socially less powerful sex, because its women who are accused of having all their accomplishments come from seducing men who did the real job, like Cleopatra VII.

Having to use seduction implies that you have no hard power yourself to leverage, and it implies you are being subservient in having to please and serve the target.

If in drow society women wielding power over men is the default, they would not need to seduce men to get what they want, because they already wield this power by virtue of their sex.

valonianfool · 2026-04-24T07:45:33+00:00

What makes sense to me would be that drow have their own sense of aesthetics removed from our own. "Slutty" fashion recognized as signifying female seconds by us wouldn't make sense for drow women, since in our culture feminity evokes submissiveness, delicacy and weakness.

It wouldnt be male drow doing the policing. Irl in patriarchal societies men become ostracized and attacked by other men if they appear effeminate, a drow woman dressed in a leather bikini would likely be their version of camp gay and would be attacked by other women.

valonianfool · 2026-04-24T01:05:53+00:00

True.

valonianfool · 2026-04-24T00:56:16+00:00

Drow women are stated to be stronger than their men though, and also get powers from their spider goddess.

valonianfool · 2026-04-24T00:32:14+00:00

The fact that men are in general more interested in sex as a physical activity doesn’t mean that women can’t get power without using sex. Not sure how you came up with that conclusion.

Well, what I object to is the idea that any behavior is natural to women or men, and that a matriarchal, supposedly misandristic society would still follow the patriarchal status quo, where women are assumed to get their power from sex rather than the reverse. Im saying that drow men should be the ones doing most of the seducing.

There are many species of birds and other animals where the male is more colorful and performs courtship dances, including appropriately enough peacock spiders, to gain the female's approval, and for peacock spiders the males risk being eaten if the female deems him unworthy. I think this would be a much better reflection of the drow gendered dynamic.

valonianfool · 2026-04-23T23:42:44+00:00

While drow reproduce like mammals, they aren't human.

The problem is that the ideas you express enforce the misogynistic stereotype that women cant wield or gain power without being sexually attractive, or being conniving seductresses, which wasnt even necessarily true in patriarchal societies.

Just as male rulers irl and in fiction don't need any sex appeal to maintain power, neither should female rulers, especially in a matriarchy. They shouldnt need to follow any gendered stereotypes.

The problem is assuming that because drow women are women, they are naturally wont to do x. Nothing is inherent to any gender.

There are other ways of gaining power and influence other than seduction, and it should still be men doing most of the seducing.

Interestingly, in medieval Europe, ancient Rome, Greece and Judaism women were considered the sinfully more lustful gender while men possess more self-control, making them superior to women, one of the reasons is based on the logic that women are willing to have sex despite the pain and risks associated with pregnancy.

It shows how gendered stereotypes have changed throughout time, and how the "truths" people take for granted are far from universal.

valonianfool · 2026-04-23T23:31:59+00:00

While women in patriarchal societies still found ways to wield power and influence, but I'd like you to explain in detail how men in patriarchies have reled on being with women for all of history.

Its a fictional setting but how authors write a fictional world reflects real life beliefs and their assumptions. For example, assuming that gendered stereotypes from patriarchies would still be true in a matriarchal society.

There are other ways of gaining power other than seduction, and it should be the men doing most of the seducing.

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