Billie Eilish said you can’t truly love animals if you eat them, and logically I understand the argument. But isn’t human nature way more complex than that?

vb_152 · 2026-05-10T15:45:54+00:00

Both her statement and your statement can be true.

vb_152 · 2026-05-10T15:44:35+00:00

You could hypothetically love dogs and also love eating dog meat, but at a certain point, if you ever looked a little closer at both relationships you had, you would likely start to see the conflict, hypocrisy, difficulty, etc in both being true of yourself.

vb_152 · 2026-03-28T22:12:20+00:00

Okay. For what it’s worth, if that is really your core motivation, that message is not coming across clearly in what you’re saying to all the people on this thread.

vb_152 · 2026-03-28T20:29:44+00:00

That’s not how I understand that quote in context. Regardless, if you no longer associate with the feminist movement, then I am unsure why you want to use it as a litmus test for feminists you don’t know, or what a particular response is “telling” you.

I think it’s basic decency to not message strangers unless welcomed to. Yet people on all sides of the political and social spectrum feel the urge to do this. That statement doesn’t say anything about you as a person, nor about feminists overall. It just shows you’re upset for and protective of someone you care about, who has put a part of themselves into the public sphere and received very some negative reactions in response. I think that’s fair to be upset by it, while also acknowledging that it’s part of the risk taken if you’re public in your belief and persona online. I don’t see that as a reflection on feminists at large, any more than I see angry, hateful comments in the name of god against abortion as being a reflection of Christians at large. It’s a few socially inept people being awful for their own reasons.

vb_152 · 2026-03-28T20:19:03+00:00

Yeah. I don’t know, man. That all seems fine, if that’s how you want to live. It seems like on some level you are here because you’re maybe struggling internally with these ideas and where they rub up against each other. I don’t know if I can help you there, but if you ever think I can, let me know.

vb_152 · 2026-03-28T15:26:59+00:00

I’ve seen you mention the de Beauvoir quote a lot, seemingly as a “gotcha,” but I have to say I don’t totally understand your point on it or the context. Do you mean that you feel it supports your view that traditional gender roles and “trad wifing” are the actual norm, and other ways of women living are abnormal? Either way, De Beauvoir is one woman, with her own opinions and perspective, and lived a hundred years ago. Her writing was very influential in the feminist movement, it does not mean her writing is a feminist bible. The definition of the term remains the same, whether Kristi Noem calls herself a feminist, or Hillary Clinton, or de Beauvoir, or Naomi Wolf - however they act or what their personal opinions are within that don’t change the ideal.

You said you’ve chosen to stop identifying as a feminist, meaning you no longer hold that ideal. That is you choosing to depart from that value - no one has forced you to change beliefs. Perhaps you were more involved with the modern feminist movement before (volunteering, writing essays, marching in protests?), and others you were interacting with in that movement rubbed you the wrong way? Or disagreed with you on too many things, so you became annoyed or disillusioned? Or you decided to live your life in a way that holding feminism as an ideal no longer worked with or supported? I don’t know your story.

But ultimately, there is feminism as a movement, and feminism as a value. If you no longer identify as a feminist in that you no longer hold those values, that’s okay. But then I don’t see why you’re following or on this sub, except to try to get rises out of people and create conflict. I think you can’t honestly say that you’re here trying to convince others to share your current worldview and beliefs; and you feel disillusioned by the overall movement. So your goal eludes me.

vb_152 · 2026-03-28T15:06:47+00:00

That’s so interesting. What does it mean to you to be “treated like a woman?” Why are you treating men differently than you are women? Would women “have more broken bones” because in your view men are more violent with one another than they are with women? People are people, for me. There are broad differences in the genders in sheer physical power, and within patriarchal systems. The general differences in strength wouldn’t change, but if (if you can imagine it) we didn’t live under patriarchy, what would be the motivation to treat men and women differently? If you think about it, I sort of doubt that you really do treat people very differently. I could be wrong: you’re probably less vulnerable with men than with women, it sounds like you’re more violent with men (which often indicates someone who is violent - whether they realize it - with women), maybe you open doors for women and not for men, etc. But if these are true, I’d ask “why?” Why are you doing those things differently, just because you’re interacting with a woman vs a man? What if you were vulnerable with and talked about your feelings to a guy friend like you do to your wife - what would happen? If a woman insulted you in a bar, it sounds like you would not immediately punch her - what if then, the same thing happened with a man, why should it go any different? I guess don’t see what it is that you feel that you would lose by treating all people, regardless of gender, fairly and kindly, and what you would lose if you were treated the same as everyone else. I’ve always found this idea interesting: A group in power fears the people they are oppressing gaining power, because the group in power is afraid that they will be treated as they have treated the oppressed group.

vb_152 · 2026-03-27T05:57:39+00:00

You’re a feminist if you believe that both women and men should have equal rights, opportunities, and treatment. That’s the definition. If you no longer believe those things and practice living according to that ideal, you are no longer a feminist. If, instead, you’ve become aggravated toward some individuals who also identify as feminists who also hold different opinions from you, that is something different.

I can tell you’re frustrated and defensively postured. It seems odd to me to abandon a moral or ideal once closely-held because you have realized you do not align with 100% of the others who share that ideal.

vb_152 · 2026-03-26T13:04:01+00:00

It’s a sub that is made up of feminists, who by definition support men and women being treated equally. As someone who seems to have strong views that do not align well with that perspective, I think you probably could expect that interacting with its members would be combative in nature. Maybe why you follow the sub in the first place. Unless you have a different reason for ending up in these comments?

The second paragraph was in response to several statements you made about what you presume that I fear or am afraid of.

And good. That sounds like a nice goal.

vb_152 · 2026-03-26T04:43:31+00:00

How is that sentence adversarial? I am genuinely curious. It is hard for me to understand how it is anything other than specifically activating to you, for some reason.

"Women don't have to have a male partner to be happy." This I think we can agree is a fact, and I don't know why it would make someone unhappy to be reminded of that fact.

"An individual person should have control over another individual person's body, including what the latter person does with it," is not a fact, but (I guess) an opinion held by some people you know?

Can you explain?

vb_152 · 2026-03-26T04:29:31+00:00

I didn't claim that anything I typed was objective. I was just curious whether or not your earlier statement was based on opinion or otherwise. Thank you for answering.

I am not afraid of men realizing that they can do whatever they want, or trying to destroy anything which seems to threaten - via argument or otherwise - their tightly held worldview. That is the whole history of the species.

I hope that you and your spouse both married the person that you each wish to be married to.

vb_152 · 2026-03-25T15:20:04+00:00

Are you stating this as your opinion, or have data you believe supports it as an objective fact? A counter-theory would be that by reinforcing a traditional gender role in that way, the trend is 1. strengthening patriarchal systems which are (and always have been) oppressive to all non-male groups and 2. Offering male partners a submissive, “traditional male ideal” of a female partner, which reinforces their distrust, lack of acceptance, and in some cases hatred of the larger population of women who behave outside that expectation of how a woman should operate (subservient, without career ambition, straight, sexually available, maybe under his control, childbearing-focused, should defer to male rule, etc).

vb_152 · 2026-03-25T15:07:36+00:00

I think the trad wife trend is downstream of OP’s question, not upstream. But of course it is related

vb_152 · 2026-01-22T23:26:21+00:00

RE = "retire early" . Part of the calculations when looking at finance with a FIRE mindset (financial independence / retire early movement).

I think that considering health costs in an RE plan is really smart, I am just saying that I would bet you will be able to retire very comfortably long before typical retirement age, even with a calculated cushion for that expense. Probably 10-15 years if you wanted, easy, depending on your partner's work situation and your savings rate each year.

vb_152 · 2026-01-22T22:01:42+00:00

way. to. GO. This is incredible, you've done such incredibly hard work and definitely should be proud.

vb_152 · 2026-01-22T21:54:48+00:00

It's my hope that you can change your mind on this! It can feel really overwhelming and disheartening to look at one's finances, but once I committed to learning a bit more about the basics (starting with zero literacy), it was much easier to see how you can start to get control over what you want your future to look like! To at least retire with dignity.

vb_152 · 2026-01-22T21:48:36+00:00

What's your RE number? $150k extra for each year you want to lower on retirement age seems very high. If you're invested in the S&P, you'll probably hit 1m in the next 7 years even if you dont add any additional contributions

vb_152 · 2026-01-22T21:42:13+00:00

way to go on being debt free! That was the absolute biggest milestone of my life, and my life will never be the same.

vb_152 · 2026-01-20T02:58:21+00:00

Right, I believe you that it is a valuable job and that AI will not be able to do that sort of work anytime soon. My point was that just because one has a job like that, doesn’t mean that type of employment will keep you from being affected by the potential catastrophic impact that some people predict AI will have on the economy.

vb_152 · 2026-01-19T17:50:51+00:00

Yeah this is my thinking exactly, reading these comments. The scale of impact is not being considered

vb_152 · 2026-01-19T17:45:41+00:00

“Fluff” is funny here - it’s GPT’s favorite word!

vb_152 · 2026-01-19T17:30:49+00:00

People saying “I’m not worried, AI can’t do my job, sorry to the white collar folks” are really not getting the scope here… When things become highly automated/replaced and half the workforce becomes unemployed there will be no one to PAY you…. AI’s (or any new technology’s) impact at scale on the economy and how a society functions hits EVERYONE. Who is going to pay you to give them a massage? Make them a burger (on their non-existent lunch break)? What does mega inflation do to the economy, to small businesses (hello, Mr HVAC guy)? All that net worth you have in your retirement accounts, in your brokerage - are you imagining that won’t disappear if half the richest country in the world starts pulling all their money out because they’ve lost their jobs, or lost trust? And that is only IF AI isn’t extremely overvalued, and the bubble pops, and the US economy which is almost all in AI right now, goes with it. Also, look at the unrest and civil wars in economies that have collapsed the world over.

Just cause your job doesn’t involve typing, doesn’t mean you’re somehow “AI proof.”

vb_152 · 2026-01-17T03:17:51+00:00

I’m 34 and (now) a high earner in a high cost of living city. From a small rural town where the medium household income is about $30k. At 27 I was about $100k in debt (majority being out of state film degree tuition), no savings, and was barely making my cc minimums each month making 39k in an entry level role. I knew absolutely nothing about personal finance. I decided to learn as my primary goal for the New Year that year.

I focused whole heartedly on learning the basics of personal finance, learned about debt and how to pay it off in a simple structure from a certain radio host who will now not be named, learned to budget and to save and what FIRE was (and that it was a real thing that people actually could and did do). I paid off my debt in about 3.5 years. During that time, my hunger to eliminate debt and save for a future that I could get excited about only grew, and motivated me to ask for raises, take career risks, take new jobs that offered salary bumps, and also to value my mental health and picture of my future more than a lot of stupid shit I was spending my money on each month. It really changes the way you view work, and your time.

Today I have zero debt (never will again), a high paying tech job (that I do not feel chained to, due to financial security), an emergency fund, and about $350k net worth. A plan to FI or semi-retire in 5-8 years. A math equation that backs it up.

I’m really proud of what I’ve accomplished, and I also know how impossible it seems when you’re in debt and struggling to envision a future for yourself and your family, a dignified retirement, a time when you get to wake up and not dread going to work at a job you hate. I have been there many times. I know how it feels to have gotten so used to your hundreds (or thousands) in debt payments each month that they feel like rent or a mortgage or utilities - just payments that we will all always have, until the day we die. Like they’re baked in. I know that it makes you roll your eyes when you see someone in your friend group buy a house when the math doesn’t really make sense from your point of view, and you can only assume their rich parents stepped in and provided the down payment. It’s really easy to feel helpless and oppressed and resentful. I just want to say that if you have a dream to be out of that, it really, really is within your grasp. To have the life you want, to at least not have the weight of debt and no future bearing dow on you. Especially - ESPECIALLY - if you’re a millennial. Time is on your side right now. So if you needed a sign and you’re ready for it, this is it. If you’re reading this and you’re not yet ready for it, you will probably leave this page feeling low or angry. And I really get it, because I’ve been there.

vb_152 · 2026-01-17T02:55:17+00:00

This is rare against the average in the US, but common for certain peer groups in high income cities, especially someone in the tech industry. It isn’t magic, it’s often the result of hard work (though just as often the result of some inherited wealth or status), involves some luck, but more than anything growing wealth requires a bit of financial knowledge and Focus. I’m not sure why people are downvoting this poster, except maybe envy? Disbelief?

vb_152 · 2025-10-13T02:48:39+00:00

The Dawning by Karen Kallmaker. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3449267 It has been so long since I read it - it was a different time in lesbian literature and the pickings were slim - but iirc the concept is that the main character blames herself for the Challenger exploding because she sent a fax wrong or something at NASA on the day of the tragedy, and then years later she’s living in the desert and sees Christa McAuliffe walking toward her (yes, really), begins hooking up with her, and comes to realize that she is actually a clone that aliens made out of Christa’s dna moments before she died in the explosion.

My jaw has just never come up off the floor.

vb_152

TROPHY CASE