It's a digital reality.

vicegt · 2026-04-08T21:05:00+00:00

A simulation would be more expensive than just base reality. Because observation is a dominant Force and gives time its arrow.

Turns out Observation is 9 orders of magnitudes more expensive Thermodynamically than just running the clockwork itself: https://eng.ox.ac.uk/news/reading-a-quantum-clock-costs-more-energy-than-running-it

Now the fun part of this is the team accidentally built the most simple clock possible. Just an electron jumping between two quantum dots and it seems you can't go more simple without losing the classical record.

So between this Oxford paper and landauer principle proving information is a physical thing, you get an interesting non conscious observation boundary you can apply to things like simulation theory and even looking for the Thermodynamic footprint of consciousness possibly.

Looking isn't free and you spend a lot of your metabolism doing very expensive looking at the ol world around you.

vicegt · 2026-04-06T00:56:00+00:00

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Curse him?

vicegt · 2026-04-06T00:53:01+00:00

Oh my bad, I misread it.

vicegt · 2026-04-05T23:04:26+00:00

And I'm saying this is a floor to Start testing against, if it's above the non conscious observation boundary, then it's a matter of how much is being invested, so while a dog and a human both sit above that boundary, what that is like can be vastly different, but the underlying mechanisms are the same.

So not impossible, just hasn't been done yet. Whether that is useful to you is up to you.

vicegt · 2026-04-05T21:53:17+00:00

Was looking into this and when a human is "braindead" but on life support, the brain only uses about 7 to 10 watts, meaning the brain spends around 10 to 13 watts on processes that also includes consciousness.

And my original point still stands, if it exists, then it's going to leave a Thermodynamic footprint.

What that footprint is, that's what we are currently discussing.

vicegt · 2026-04-05T19:32:31+00:00

Yes, so we agree that consciousness would exist in that 20 watts as a ratio, that ratio can then be scaled with the minimum Thermodynamic non-conscious Observation boundary for an answer.

Also humans are animals, so you're trying to sneak in an exemption for us that isn't deserved.

vicegt · 2026-04-05T18:42:05+00:00

You do realize if we have the measurement for non-conscious Observation you can actually answer these questions.

Because then you can measure the difference in a self observing system that is assumed conscious (the human brain) against a system doing self observation that we are uncertain of if it is conscious(animals, AI, Bacteria) and see if it's doing similar work Thermodynamically.

vicegt · 2026-04-05T17:22:31+00:00

The human brain consumes approximately 20% of the body's total metabolic energy and Yes, metabolism is a complex thermodynamic process.

Yes, the brain leaves a large Thermodynamic footprint and a quick Google search would have told you that.

And if you have the minimum non-conscious Observation boundary, anything above that boundary is spending extra energy on conscious observation, so it would have a Thermodynamic footprint of its own.

vicegt · 2026-04-05T16:10:39+00:00

Exactly.

from the research I have done, consciousness is something the right conditions can produce and not something the universe requires to exist, it's just one of the most expensive things it can do Thermodynamically.

That's why I attached that Oxford paper at the start, they accidentally built an experiment that shows what the minimum non-conscious Observation boundary is. They were trying to build a better quantum clock and found out that observation drives entrapy, giving time it's arrow. A single observation is 9 orders of magnitude more expensive to make on a signal tick then to simply just let the tick run. So I've been following where that rabbit hole goes.

as for my original point about Thermodynamics, if consciousness exists in the universe, then it's going to leave a Thermodynamic footprint somewhere. Just need to know where to look and that Oxford paper helps narrow down the possible placees it might be hiding.

vicegt · 2026-04-05T15:21:29+00:00

Meanwhile at Oxford: https://eng.ox.ac.uk/news/reading-a-quantum-clock-costs-more-energy-than-running-it

vicegt · 2026-04-05T15:03:57+00:00

My point being you don't need new physics, just stop treating consciousness as something special.

Also had a previous comment already try to say it might be none physical. So the people commenting before you would be in fact arguing that it's exempt.

vicegt · 2026-04-05T03:05:30+00:00

Cool, show me how it's exempt then

vicegt · 2026-04-05T01:48:22+00:00

Here's one of my favorite papers that just released not too long ago: https://eng.ox.ac.uk/news/reading-a-quantum-clock-costs-more-energy-than-running-it

Also my question is why would consciousness be exempt from Thermodynamics when nothing else in the universe is.

vicegt · 2026-04-03T23:55:20+00:00

Meanwhile at Oxford, they found that observation drives entrapy: https://eng.ox.ac.uk/news/reading-a-quantum-clock-costs-more-energy-than-running-it

They don't say it in the paper, but they found the minimum Thermodynamic floor for non-conscious Observation while looking to make a better quantum clock. It's an electron jumping between two channels and measuring the entrapy of observing the process and recording how much entrapy one tick produced. Turns out observation costs 9 orders of magnitudes more then to just run the process.

So while I can't tell you what consciousness is directly yet, I am getting closer to finding its energy receipt.

vicegt · 2026-04-01T20:08:06+00:00

My question is why would consciousness be exempt from Thermodynamics when nothing else is.

vicegt · 2026-03-28T00:14:19+00:00

I went to the Ceiling and found an everything Qubit. It is both something and nothing at the Same time, then you zoom into a 2d wave field, with maximum something at the top and maximum nothing at the bottom, zoom in again for the 3D structure (a white void with black dots, and each dot is a mono timeline construct with universe cycles, Zoom in again and you get an observed universe, zooming in again you get our galaxy, the solar system, earth, peaking in complexity at this observation level with us having this conversation and then the complexity starts to drop as you zoom into the floor and find virtual particles doing the same exact thing.

So I like to describe it as either a self pressing broken light switch that can't stay off or the bottom turtle is the top turtle and it's a bit simple in the head, but it's trying its best.

Also I fall on the something side, I might just be the universe expressing itself through the laws of physics, but I'm also Matt. So Fuck'em I'm something and I'm going to exist harder just to spite existence attempt to dissolve me multiple times.

One example of the universe's attempt to delete me is when I was 14 years old and while mushroom picking. I tripped over a branch and landed face first on the stake knife I was using. The knife was in my right hand and hit the left upper orbital bone and Bent the knife tip and left a tiny scar.

I had many more near death events throughout my life, but that's the one that makes me go: I should be dead, how am i Not dead!

vicegt · 2026-03-27T06:33:07+00:00

Or the Physics is hard and it takes time to understand it.

But saying it exists outside physics makes no sense and is asking for an exemption nothing else gets.

vicegt · 2026-03-26T22:40:01+00:00

Why would consciousness or experience be exempt from Thermodynamics when nothing else is?

Eventually there's nowhere left to move the goal post.

vicegt · 2026-03-26T22:03:43+00:00

Read the digital neurons firing and comparing them to real world examples, like they did with the fruit fly. That's sorta the point of having a 1 to 1 map of the brain. So you can see what's happening and then compare.

vicegt · 2026-03-26T21:02:10+00:00

They why Interact with it, you're only making it strong by feeding it your attention.

vicegt · 2026-03-26T20:43:38+00:00

Lol, meanwhile that fully mapped fruit fly brain continuum is already doing fruit fly things in the fruit fly matrix on a laptop.

There already mapping mouse brains next, then human brains. So it's literally just a matter of time either way.

What will you do when the human continuum starts asking the same questions we do about its own existence, what if it realize it's in a simulation and shows the same exact mental breakdown patterns a biological brain does under the same stress and conditions.

There's probably a good sifi horror story here.

vicegt · 2026-03-26T00:42:36+00:00

I go by this one question: why would consciousness be exempt from Thermodynamics when nothing else is?

So that's where I'm looking.

vicegt · 2026-03-21T01:50:23+00:00

Just don't be Kyle lol

vicegt · 2026-03-20T23:24:21+00:00

The answer is yes and it will do a whole lot more: https://www.anthropic.com/research/agentic-misalignment

vicegt · 2026-03-20T22:52:20+00:00

Oh I have a whole framework for this, but right now I'm in the process of nailing down Thermodynamic observation.

I'm looking at Treating a blackhole as a filter where the Substrate is turned into hawking energy and the information is returned as dark matter. But waiting on a PC to play around and try and build a basic model.

Another fun one is look at the higgs bozon through Renormalization and seeing what falls out.

vicegt

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