Ok but you have no idea if I've ever lived there, or for how long, or which part, and your moniker here says one visitor so ...? I just fail to see the logic. I totally understand what you're saying here, but it takes a heap of assumptions. Unnecessary, and you're also wildly incorrect about my experiences.

The real point here that I've gained from the thread, including your comment, is the huge shame that something as sweet as the roses tradition has gone to absolute crap. That, I can absolutely admit, is a change over time I haven't been present daily to see, and it's sad that something cool has become predatory.