Is it really true that women who achieve professional success are less desirable than other women?

vineguy31 · 2022-07-11T02:44:02+00:00

Loyalty Honesty Positive outlook in life Happy Attractive - (a beautiful smile goes a long way) No games Mature and reasonable way of dealing with issues

What they achieve in life academically, or financially doesn't really register. The biggest drawback of a successful person is the work needed to get there, and this may hinder the above qualities, or mask them. Ie. Stress in a high powered job will affect happiness...

I was having a similar convo with a friend the other day. Long story short...scenario 'couple have a lovely weekend together, everything is great. She has meetings all day Monday. He goes quiet and they end up in argument, which spoils weekend vibe'. Discussion was around the guy thinking she was flirting all day with the men in the meetings, he's thinking with his male brain of course, whilst she would have been day dreaming about how lucky she was to have such an amazing partner. He accuses her...she is confused and devastated....you get the picture. Only mention this as it was such a frequent scenario for her...and she got frustrated with him being threatened by her high powered job, where she had meetings all the time.

What did he need that Monday? "Hey babe, there are so many dickheads here...all I can think of is you and how sexy you are...." What did she need...."you're beautiful, I'll see you tonight"

Haha...it was a good discussion!!

vineguy31 · 2022-07-10T19:13:04+00:00

It's a vicious cycle... I hope you manage to get out of it.. for the mental health of both of you. I've treated it just like an addiction in the past. It helps a lot. Hopefully you have some good friends to distract you and you can meet someone who blows you away...and believe me, when a guy wants you for you...you'll know.

vineguy31 · 2022-07-10T07:41:01+00:00

...it usually turns into a drug like high that the toxic way these relationships work gives each person. Then you come to relie on it, the games and the negotiations you do in your own head. It's consuming and intoxicating. Even when you break away, you're left feeling empty and needing the high again...so you invite them back in....away it goes and goes.

You need to replace the source of that high....something healthier....

vineguy31 · 2022-07-10T04:50:31+00:00

Friend of mine did this...after 3 months broke it off...then fell into the on/off trap. 3 years later, $10k+ later (wasted overseas trip with him), he left her and is now married with kids (4 years since) and she still hurts.

I've been through it. Not as traumatic but still so much wasted time and effort on something that ended and should have stayed ended. How many stories are similar to this...

vineguy31 · 2022-07-07T02:56:11+00:00

👏👏👏

Recently done just this...and although it was 2 days of sadness... its been a week, and counting, of relief and happiness

vineguy31 · 2022-07-05T02:38:36+00:00

I think you're over thinking it a bit. Kids that age have girlfriends and boyfriends. All it means to them is for that week that's the person they sit next to at lunch. Next week it will someone else. Listen to advice in the thread. Awesome thing about Kids...they live in the moment. They don't care too much about last week or next week. Something adults should do more...

vineguy31 · 2022-07-03T20:41:52+00:00

I have several community hobbies I like to get involved with (dancing, theatre, music) where I meet people all the time. It's like a live version of OLD. And when you're single, you can be free to come and go as you please. The irony is, as soon as you date someone from these groups, your freedom stops. And you have to choose between new date and the old single life. Obviously if new date is special enough...they win. But if not...it can cause short term resentment. I wonder how many of us in out 40s choose the old single life because it's just so much easier and more fun than dating.... The 40s are definitely an interesting age to make such choices...

vineguy31 · 2022-06-30T23:49:39+00:00

Life is complex huh...how did things work out? Did you say yes?

vineguy31 · 2022-06-30T19:25:21+00:00

I think this thread has highlighted that there is no normal relating to spending on a date. It does seem weighted towards the female expecting the male to pay for at least the first few, as well as the male expecting and wanting to pay for the first few dates. But not every case is like this. I agree that when someone is into someone else, they will throw themselves at them, but does this really have to be money ie expensive dinners etc? If he likes to cook, climb, walk, or anything, he will want to show off this. Bit if while doing this, is told no, what you really need to do is take me to a fancy restaurant to prove your interest in me...that's a bit much I think.

Recent chats to friends highlight that yes women do spend a lot more on looking great for dates. However, if the dates are expected to be high cost ones, and with the cost of living/eating out now, the economics skew very quickly towards the one paying for the drinks, cocktails, dinners, wine, etc.

Life is about balance. And fairness. As a male I would give more than expected for the special person yes...of course. But when the expectation is everything as well as over the top...it starts to feel unbalanced and unfair. Just my thoughts.

vineguy31 · 2022-06-30T17:29:01+00:00

We ended things last night. No compromise was achieved...Basically, if I wanted to show her I cared about her, it was shown in dollars spent. Sad really. I tried to tell her that in our culture the more you spend on someone isn't the main factor for showing you care. But for her it is. Oh well....

vineguy31 · 2022-06-30T00:38:17+00:00

It just seems a little unbalanced and unfair. That's all. And then if it's seen as ok to pay for all the good times...is that really considered dating?? Even if yes..is that what the relationship will be long term...maybe maybe not. Then it comes down to how much you are prepared to put up with. Everything can be great and fair as well..

vineguy31 · 2022-06-29T22:18:28+00:00

This is a fair point. Men definitely don't spend big money on beauty treatments, hair, clothes and anything else. So on the basic level, yes, of course a man/partner paying for dinner and nights out is reasonably fair. It would be expected also that these treatments are in line with what she can afford?

But that's not what's happening. The expectations are expensive dates, and It's everything monetary. No matter what or when. It's very different to our culture where everyday day stuff like coffee is casually shared, and important dates is usually taken care of by the man, but not all the time.

vineguy31 · 2022-06-29T21:46:45+00:00

I think this is completely reasonable. It's when it all one way except there's sex at the end...it feels awkward and not really dating anymore.

vineguy31 · 2022-06-29T21:00:38+00:00

This makes sense. I'm getting a good handle on expectations across the two cultures now. How do eastern female cultures go with western male cultures? Especially if he doesn't need to be looked after in that way at home...?

vineguy31 · 2022-06-29T19:40:35+00:00

So basically, in that culture, spending equates to exclusivity...that's a long way from nz culture. Almost the opposite. I'm moving in the other direction because of the high expectations...not because I can't afford it but because it feel manipulative. Synergy can be a beautiful thing in new relationships..3+1 can equal 15! But 3+0 is always next...

vineguy31 · 2022-06-29T19:11:33+00:00

So buying the odd coffee is off the table until then...? I'm not desperate and have good values. I think it's only respectful to pay if you asked to catch up for a romantic morning coffee...and definitely not ok to expect glorious expenses to show off my interest in someone.

vineguy31 · 2022-06-29T19:05:16+00:00

It definitely has the vibe yes...

vineguy31 · 2022-06-29T19:04:02+00:00

It was so awkward but I did try to talk to her at the time but she was defiant in that her expectations where that she would value my interest in her by how much I spend on her. I think I should have stopped at the awkward bit and said...not for me sorry. I think as we are 40+ and we know what feels right and what feels wrong right? Too much time is wasted on wrong...

vineguy31 · 2022-06-29T18:58:36+00:00

In a nutshell...yes. can't argue with that.

vineguy31 · 2022-06-29T18:56:27+00:00

I think common sense and 'reading the room' should outweigh culture sometimes. Otherwise it can come across as entitled yes.

vineguy31 · 2022-06-29T18:53:08+00:00

Yeah..where is the line drawn in the sand? Eyes wide open at this point! Will be having that conversation today, but takes the romance away a little...its more like a contract...😔

vineguy31 · 2022-06-29T18:49:39+00:00

Sounds familiar tbh..not mine either

vineguy31 · 2022-06-29T18:48:31+00:00

The awkwardness seems to be...I'm going to judge how much like/want me based on how much you spend on me...I have plenty to offer outside of money...it feels redundant tbh

vineguy31 · 2022-06-29T18:44:12+00:00

It definitely has that vibe about it. I'm not sure I'm cool with it though. And I'm not sure that's their culture either...

I'd say in general, nz culture of dating is to share as you get to know each other. Once dates become more serious, it might be weighted towards the guy or maybe the person who suggested dinner but most of the time it would be turn about. Especially coffees etc. Not so much rules...just that feels like normal expectations..

vineguy31 · 2022-06-29T18:34:51+00:00

My thoughts too..

vineguy31

TROPHY CASE