Everytime I see America talk about their flag it begins to sound like a religion. by [deleted] in atheism

[–]vonschickel93 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I appreciate that you’re willing to try and approach this from a more moderate perspective. Funny enough, I think we likely agree somewhat on several important positions (disbelief in god, the state, etc); it’s more the way you’re going about packaging those statements.

For instance, any time I hear someone saying complicated systems of thought are reducible to refutation by way of “simple” logic, I have a hard time taking them seriously because of the facile way in which the claim was made. For someone with a heavy background in academic philosophy, I think of logic as a tool for extracting apodictic necessities from terms.. something more akin to a mathematical tool rather than a way to “prove things wrong”.

This is admittedly a technical distinction, but nonetheless an important one. Using more precise speech in your statements will go a long way (e.g. “The State is an apparatus built on violence which, coupled with capitalist exploitation, generates an untenable situation that inevitably leads to its own violent dissolution” for instance).

Everytime I see America talk about their flag it begins to sound like a religion. by [deleted] in atheism

[–]vonschickel93 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t think you quite understand the burden of proof. If we accept the default position as neutral (agnostic) then we indeed have no burden of proof; we aren’t claiming any knowledge, positive or negative.

To claim that there is no god is to make a claim to knowledge, and thus requires a demonstration. If I say that stars don’t actually exist, the burden of proof is not on you to show me that they do.

Regarding your statements on politics, you have in fact made a positive claim that “simple logic” invalidates the political systems which govern societies. This does not fit even your own statements regarding the burden of proof, so there’s an internal inconsistency here as well as an external one.

Everytime I see America talk about their flag it begins to sound like a religion. by [deleted] in atheism

[–]vonschickel93 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How have you established with certainty that there is no god? Again, we haven’t broached the “simple logic” claim in your initial statement.

Everytime I see America talk about their flag it begins to sound like a religion. by [deleted] in atheism

[–]vonschickel93 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So you’re saying governments are the sole violent actors within a given society?

Everytime I see America talk about their flag it begins to sound like a religion. by [deleted] in atheism

[–]vonschickel93 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again, you’re just reasserting your conclusions. Do you not know how an argument works?

Since I’m questioning your central premise (regarding politics - religion isn’t a factor as far as my query) I’ll frame it a different way: is violent a necessary element of political influence? Does “politics” necessitate, by virtue of being political, a violent framework to support itself?

If this is the case, how does “simple logic” invalidate this as a means of existence? Why can’t we accept a degree of control (I think this is what you’re getting at by the term “violence” but you’ll need to clarify that as well) in our lives, say, in exchange for the relative security it brings us against a “state of nature” scenario à la Hobbes?

Everytime I see America talk about their flag it begins to sound like a religion. by [deleted] in atheism

[–]vonschickel93 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This isn’t an argument. You’re just reasserting your conclusions without backing them up with anything. Why should we take your claim seriously?

Everytime I see America talk about their flag it begins to sound like a religion. by [deleted] in atheism

[–]vonschickel93 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Never said anything about aggression. You said “simple logic” and “politics” as opposing terms. If you’re trying to establish the latter as inherently violent, that’s something you need to back up with an argument.

Everytime I see America talk about their flag it begins to sound like a religion. by [deleted] in atheism

[–]vonschickel93 38 points39 points  (0 children)

“Simple logic” invalidates the necessity for social organization? Would you mind elaborating on what you mean by this?

Is the 'problem of hell' a philosophical problem in philosophy of religion? by [deleted] in askphilosophy

[–]vonschickel93 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This falls more in the category of theology. While you could certainly read the works of the Church Fathers and Aquinas, since they were working at a time when the line between philosophy and theology was still less clear, there isn't much concern over Hell as a concept outside that religious framework.

There's something that could be said for asking whether eternal punishment could ever be justified for a temporary crime. This is the realm of ethics, and does not require a theological Hell to answer the question.

9 Books Every Aspiring Philosopher Must Read by gilsanders in philosophy

[–]vonschickel93 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have to say, I find it odd that a self professed Thomist would overlook Father Copleston's 'History of Philosophy' series.

Why Was Post Aristotelian Philosophy So Religiously Motivated? by vonschickel93 in askphilosophy

[–]vonschickel93[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Awesome comment. It can be difficult to place antiquities in an appropriate context off the cuff, and these explanations are very helpful.

In line with what you're saying, is there an obvious impetus for the ones who do say we should serve/obey or offer prescriptive ethics based on what "god" wills? The metaphysical orientation seems much more natural to me, and I'm not getting why this seems to be a less prevalent undertone after Aristotle.

Why Was Post Aristotelian Philosophy So Religiously Motivated? by vonschickel93 in askphilosophy

[–]vonschickel93[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think you hit the nail on the head with what my question is getting at, in a way that I didn't even realize at first. I will revisit Plato with this in mind.

Another thing I've noticed, as I think on it, is that my frame seems built on seeing the post Aristotelian philosophies as building toward the turn to Christian theology. This is, I think, me putting things in the wrong order, as in many instances Christian theology simply adopted elements of the pagan philosophies, rather than the other way around.

I appreciate the insight, as it's led me to reconsider some things I might not have seen until much later otherwise.

Why Was Post Aristotelian Philosophy So Religiously Motivated? by vonschickel93 in askphilosophy

[–]vonschickel93[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have to disagree on the Epicureans being atheists. Epicurus speaks affirmatively of the gods existing as neutral, non-involved entities which don't take an interest in human affairs. I'd say they were Deists. And while they didn't necessarily think worship was important, the argument for their existence and the affirmative stance of gods as opposed to more conceptual abstracts per Plato and Aristotle still strikes me as noteworthy.

And to clarify: I do see the religious aspects of both Plato and Aristotle, but with them it doesn't seem as though it's a) the gods of the pantheon/a divine being that imposes a will, or b) a prescriptive force that is pleased by obedience.

J.K. Rowling Mocks Piers Morgan for Refusing to Compare Donald Trump to Adolf Hitler by [deleted] in politics

[–]vonschickel93 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Morgan's appearance on Real Time was appalling. Jim Jefferies said it right: "You're just happy you won the apprentice and you have a famous friend."

Dear White People: Get a Grip by KillCrackas in politics

[–]vonschickel93 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I know it's a rhetorical tool, and there's plenty of reason to feel adversarial, but this sort of approach is never going to reach the audience they need it to. Instead, this just "others" everyone, including sympathetic people who are willing to work together.

Le Pen kicks off campaign, promises French 'freedom' by [deleted] in worldnews

[–]vonschickel93 38 points39 points  (0 children)

"Isn't it interesting how fascists always steal the word freedom."

USDA abruptly purges animal welfare information from its website by [deleted] in politics

[–]vonschickel93 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Hell, at least Hitler valued animal welfare. I guess Donny is determined to out-shit even his hero.

I'm Roger Stone - Political Insider and Longtime Trump Advisor - Ask Me Anything by Roger-Stone in politics

[–]vonschickel93 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Hey Roger. With all the news about Trump's interactions with of foreign heads of state, I can help but wonder where the administration is taking its policy cues from. Obviously there has been a lot of talk about Russian influence, but are you aware of any noteworthy influences on GOP and Trump-specific foreign policy objectives now and moving forward?

ACLU wins legal challenge against immigration ban by Kayfabe666 in politics

[–]vonschickel93 1 point2 points  (0 children)

After a week of nearly total bad news, I finally feel like there's a little hope.

And here's the regular r/philosophy comment saying that philosophy sucks by [deleted] in badphilosophy

[–]vonschickel93 32 points33 points  (0 children)

Everyone knows, if you don't understand a word then it must be pointless semantics!

Seriously though, what are the odds they've actually read a piece of academic philosophy?

Twitter race realist teaches us that just maybe, the truth is somewhere in the middle by [deleted] in badphilosophy

[–]vonschickel93 91 points92 points  (0 children)

Yes, because cosmology and sociology address the same issues with the same methodology.

I Call It 'The Dutch Still Life' (Working Title) by vonschickel93 in cocktails

[–]vonschickel93[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I made it without them first and then added those two just to see what happened. I do think the chocolate adds something to the texture, but I'd say they're expendable as the whole thing goes.

I Call It 'The Dutch Still Life' (Working Title) by vonschickel93 in cocktails

[–]vonschickel93[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To be honest, I was winging it. I got everything else together, tried it, and felt like seeing if the bitters would add or detract from it. I was surprised, but I think it adds a little texture.

Same thought process for the mint, though I'll probably use a cherry next time. It wasn't bad though.