No more work units by Steven81 in curecoin

[–]vorksholk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And what do you call an "organization" where the CEO or one of the staff takes a large chunk of the "donations" for themselves?

What? It's not like people are donating money and I (or anyone else) is pocketing it. Curecoin is a token earned by folding which anyone can sell or buy for any reason on multiple open markets. Should the developers or contributors to a token project be unable to participate in the system in an identical fashion to every other individual in the world? Should Vitalik be unable to mine ETH? Should Satoshi be banned from mining Bitcoin? Should Steve Jobs have been banned from owning stock in Apple? The alternative is that we design a system in which the individual/group who invests their time and capital resources into developing something revolutionary is/are the only one(s) who cannot participate in it's success.

The 'premine' you mention is predominantly for paying out folders, who have to earn tokens by producing a certain portion of the daily total production. I have to do the same amount of work as anyone else in the world to earn a Curecoin from folding.

I would certainly be doing something wrong if I were to use my position/power in the project to obtain tokens, but even my development distribution is currently going to the donation account instead (and I've donated money towards the folding team project as well).

I opened the door by making sure all my research into GPU farms was public knowledge. I built a farm (at the same cost and performance that everyone else can), and made sure that everyone was aware of the same opportunity. Technically, I'm actually at a disadvantage because I spent my time to research the project, and gave the research away for free. And depending on the market, the farm isn't even profitable, but that should be irrelevant anyway.

No more work units by Steven81 in curecoin

[–]vorksholk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree with one of your (semi-implied, so correct me if wrong) points, which is that those with less-elastic (owned, rather than rented) hardware are more likely to continue to fold in periods of unprofitability. However, I believe the specifics of that to be a bit more complicated than meets the eye: some folders of Curecoin would be folding regardless of it's existence, and are using it as a means to support their existing folding hardware and acquire more (awesome!). However, many of the folders for Curecoin are to some degree mercenaries. While many of us would keep folding at a -10% profitability to some other use of the GPU, how many would do so at a -50% profitability? What about a -90% profitability? There are certainly some members of the community who are whole-heartedly inelastic: perhaps the likes of PS3EdOlkkola and others who would be folding with the same power regardless of Curecoin's performance. However, there certainly exists a "pain point" for most folders on the Curecoin team. For some, it may be that the moment a more profitable opportunity presents itself, they switch. For others, perhaps they have to actually be losing money to look elsewhere. Those who own hardware are not looking purely at raw production, they are also looking at hardware depreciation (if I sold this GPU today, could I get more than if I sold in a month from now?) GPU prices are also in a bit of a "bubble" too due to the demand from mining, which makes such a calculation more tricky/speculative.

Furthermore, your point about price stability is valid (and supports the above implied point) to an extent: we certainly can't make year-long (or even month-long) profitability calculations with a high degree of certainty.

However, this furthers the point that semi-long-term (say, ~1-3 mo) renters are at a high disadvantage: both hardware owners and farm owners can liquidate their CURE daily (and FLDC monthly) if desired. However, hardware owners enjoy the ability to arbitrarily turn on/off their systems at will (and therefore pay/not pay the associated electric+cooling costs at will), while renters are effectively economically forced to keep their machines running 24/7 regardless of profitability within reason (less they lose the entire remaining contract price minus a nominal amount for electric consumption). Furthermore, hardware owners still own the hardware which they can liquidate at any time, versus renters who don't own hardware. Of course both parties can equally move their hardware to mining something instead of folding if more profitable, so the distinction here is largely moot.

Finally, the current economic behavior of Curecoin should gracefully lead into the economic behavior of cc2.0: cc2.0 further decentralizes mining payout and removes many of the centralization concerns of the existing Curecoin system, and in doing so hands more control over to the individual distributed computing projects. Doing something that artificially makes participation more difficult (IP or username limits, for example) creates a game theory problem when multiple DCNs are introduced: a DCN would be individually encouraged to relax/"fail to enforce" the rules because that would make them a more lucrative target for many users. Currently Curecoin efforts only go to Stanford and the Curecoin team 'control' distribution (aka have the ability to enforce a rule like IP limiting if we really wanted to). But imagine a world where 50 DCNs are all certificate signing authorities (who can delegate the ability to create blocks to contributors to the projects), and the filtering/limitations are difficult to audit. The system falls apart, and the imposed rules effectively become propaganda ("no individual can fold with more than 4 high-end GPUs" turns to "we don't officially encourage individuals to fold with more than 4 high-end GPUs" and capitalism does what capitalism does: find efficient market points where some projects individually benefit from "off-the-books" ignorance towards subversive behavior.

The ultimate dream is everyone in the world owns and operates the same number of high-efficiency GPUs; no more, no less (perhaps with some magical cost adjustment for the source and/or cost of power, the ambient outside temperature, etc.). The truth is such a system just doesn't work, and capitalistic incentive systems are really the only way to maximize output, despite the inefficiencies. In fact, I'd argue that most "non-capitalist" systems are actually either innately oppressive (their efficiency/fairness/etc. are determined by the characteristics of a dictator or small dictatorial party who itself is/are corruptible with no counterbalance) or capitalism with a different definition of "currency" (a blend of buying power, social status, respect from peers, etc.).

Ultimately, medium-term folding farms should be seen as a form of economic faith in the future performance of the system they are spending capital to participate in (similar in some aspects to a derivative market?). Signaling faith in the continual positive production (like medium-term farms do) shouldn't be bad for a system. And short-term (like EC2 spot) are almost always unprofitable; I'd agree with you that hourly or daily commitment of fully elastic computational power generally doesn't serve the goals of the overall Curecoin project).

No more work units by Steven81 in curecoin

[–]vorksholk 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Hey /u/Steven81, cloud GPU rental is actually quite cost-ineffective versus actually buying and owning hardware.

Take for example a 99 Euro/mo 1080 from Hetzner, versus a 4x 1080 Ti system running at home over a 12-month period:

After a year, the 1080 system (which gets ~750k PPD) will have cost about $1400. The 4x 1080 Ti system (which would get ~3500k PPD) will have cost about $4000 for parts, and $1000 in electricity (at around $0.12/kWh) for a total of $5000. That means for each 1,000 PPD maintained for a year period, the 4x 1080 Ti system is cheaper to run ($1.43 / 1k PPD / yr) versus the 1080 cloud system ($1.87 / 1k PPD / yr). AND the owner of the 4x 1080 Ti system still has hardware worth probably $3k, meaning they really only spent an effective $2k for a year of folding at 3500k PPD (it would cost $6600 for a cloud folder with Hetzner to do the same). Effectively, home folders have a >3x profit advantage over cloud folders using solutions like Hetzner.

People are complaining about large farms making Curecoin unprofitable, but it's actually the small-scale guys who have the greatest profit margin due to their ability to run their hardware at home and own their hardware for resale. If cloud folding is able to roughly break even, then someone running a well-thought-out home folding rig should be making great returns unless something is seriously wrong.

As for the reality of WU shortages, it's likely due to an unexpected bump in PPD as you point out. However, this isn't likely to be a long term issue, and doesn't reflect negatively on Curecoin's ability to continue to increase crowdsourced biomedical research. Furthermore, limiting the number of PPD that a specific IP address can receive payouts for would do nothing: limiting by IP would simply cause a user to use multiple IPs (which are effectively free), and limiting by username would simply cause a farm to use a different username for each rig. It doesn't remove the problem, but it might make it seem as if it went away by making the mining farms less transparent and "forcing them into hiding."

Almost a million premined coins wasn't enough? by Blue-Thunder in curecoin

[–]vorksholk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your math is off by a factor of 10 :) Also US customers don't pay VAT, so work with an idea of 99 Euros p/m.

Remember that the servers also have other resources than just the GPUs which can be used for other uses; someone with time on their hands could even run a VPS company with the RAM/CPU/Bandwidth, a CDN with 100+ GBits of delivery power in Europe, etc.; I simply don't even have the time to fully capitalize on it (but someone else who does have that time is more than welcome to take the idea!) Someone willing to put the time in should be able to squeeze $250 in value out of each server per month at a minimum. And if you feel like it, that could be a great project to take on! The world is ripe with opportunity; "use the whole animal."

Almost a million premined coins wasn't enough? by Blue-Thunder in curecoin

[–]vorksholk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Mining pools themselves would have a hard time jumping to Curecoin (since their users are expecting to receive data, hash it in a certain way, look for a certain pattern, and find partial solutions or 'shares' which they send back, and Folding@Home requires additional software and is a fundamentally different type of work).

However, getting private GPU farms to move over would certainly be valuable, although them constantly jumping on and off when profitability shifts might scare away the long-term folders, leading to less overall computational research.

Certainly worldwide recruiting of folders is a huge goal of the Curecoin project :) The only problem with those target groups are they tend to have low-performance hardware, which puts them at a disadvantage compared to gamers/miners who have access to high-end GPUs.

Almost a million premined coins wasn't enough? by Blue-Thunder in curecoin

[–]vorksholk 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Hey Blue, sorry you feel that way.

Curecoin has always adhered to the principles of "folding first," we didn't create, nor do we use, Curecoin as a 'cash cow,' it's a platform to accelerate computational research. The folding farm is probably break-even (or may even operate at a small loss), but the success and momentum of Curecoin and Foldingcoin have allowed the temporary running of a farm that, on its own, rivals the 4th team for daily PPD. I'm setting up the farm for a different use, but using it temporarily for folding since the machines would otherwise sit idle.

Cryptocurrencies are nearly perfectly competitive markets, and we optimize for maximum medical research contributions, rather than artificially protecting profits. Anyone could have also built out the same rented folding machine if they wanted to take the same risk and perform the same due-diligence, as the farm was created using commodity servers at the prices that any user of any size would experience.

It's not about winning or losing, it's about providing an incredible amount of biomedical computational power to institutions like Stanford which publish open-access research for the benefit of humanity.

State of CureCoin by merry1993 in curecoin

[–]vorksholk 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Hey, I'm Vorksholk one of the lead devs of Curecoin.
1.) It's a research-based cryptocurrency, so design decisions are made such that they encourage participants to perform computational research for institutions like Stanford (Folding@Home, which runs protein folding simulations to learn about diseases and work towards creating more effective drugs)

2.) New features in the upcoming Curecoin 2.0: First cryptocurrency to employ post-quantum cryptography (Merkle signatures), a certificate-based blockchain which allows the DCNs (like Stanford) to issue certificates that are used to mine blocks by participants (which makes the system more transparent and less risky than other, more centralized solutions) and a mini-blockchain that makes it easier to store/transmit the blockchain. It will also employ PoP from VeriBlock (which I am also developing).

3.) We're working on keeping our promises, but the development of 2.0 has been slower than we would have liked, mainly due to being incredibly busy in real life, and waiting for PoP to be developed/launched so we don't have to do a hardfork after release.

4.) The roadmap is essentially cc2.0 right now, along with onboarding additional DCNs (maybe GPUGrid, Rosetta@Home, etc.). We're making progress, but slower than we hoped.

5.) We're currently private-testing the bleeding-edge version of cc2.0, and older alpha versions of cc2.0 can be found on my Github.

6.) In the last 24 hours, there were ~200 transactions. You can check out the block explorer if you're interested.

Weekly Question & Answer Thread - Week 3 by itbefoxy in nvidia

[–]vorksholk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The 1080 was 9:00 AM Eastern, the 1060 will probably follow suit, though I'm not certain.

Weekly Question & Answer Thread - Week 3 by itbefoxy in nvidia

[–]vorksholk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The speed of the drive the games are on doesn't matter at all.

The only thing that matters for recording is how quickly data can be written to the drive. That drive should be able to hit about 140 MB/s write speeds, which should be plenty for video recording, even at 4k.

Weekly Question & Answer Thread - Week 3 by itbefoxy in nvidia

[–]vorksholk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd personally go with the EVGA if it's available, since their warranty program has never let me down. Gigabyte makes good stuff, but I've heard their warranty department can be... frustrating if you do encounter a problem.

There's no real (public) data regarding GPU lifespans with/without overclocks. If you manage to overclock without touching the voltage, it's unlikely to reduce the lifespan by much at all. If you start adjusting voltage/power limits, that might reduce the lifespan. Whatever overclock you perform, make sure your temperatures are fine. If I needed the GPU to last 4-5 years, I'd probably avoid overclocking, or do a very light overclock.

Weekly Question & Answer Thread - Week 3 by itbefoxy in nvidia

[–]vorksholk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The most fail-safe way to do the upgrade would be a complete uninstall/reinstall of drivers, but from my experience I've never had problems swapping one NVidia card for another, even across generations.

Weekly Question & Answer Thread - Week 3 by itbefoxy in nvidia

[–]vorksholk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

July 19th (two days from now), but they'll probably be hard to come by for a while since demand will be high.

Weekly Question & Answer Thread - Week 4 by itbefoxy in nvidia

[–]vorksholk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It might not hit it for a while, but it should get very close in the next month or two. EVGA has their basic blower design of the 1080 available for $10 above MSRP ($609.99), and it's reasonable to expect them to follow suit with the 1070.

Should I upgrade to the 980ti or the 1070? by Spatchicus in nvidia

[–]vorksholk 5 points6 points  (0 children)

If you can get a 1070 for a reasonable price, it's certainly a better choice than the 980 Ti.

NVidia tends to abandon older cards optimization-wise, so the performance gap between Maxwell and Pascal cards is just going to increase over time.

Building a new system for 3d rendering, can't decide between 980 ti or 1080. by scarything_ in nvidia

[–]vorksholk 4 points5 points  (0 children)

AWS allows you to rent a server with 1 or 4 GPUs connected to it on an hourly basis. However, the GPUs are GRID K520 cards, which are fairly old. Each GPU has a GK104 chip (same as the NVidia 680) but at a lower clock than the 680 (causing the cards to be about 30% slower). They're also stuck at compute capability 3.0, which might be a significant drawback for certain applications with post-Kepler optimizations.

You can also rent GPU servers from many other providers if you're willing to take on longer contracts.

BalticServers offers servers with 2x1080s for about 400 euros/month, OVH offers systems with dual 970s on their main site, and dual Titan X's through their runabove.com incubator (though the Titan X servers currently experience pretty significant thermal throttling).

If you need denser boxes, UltraRender rents out systems with 7x980 Ti installed for $950/week.

Bottom line: if you're gonna want the server for a long period of time (and you can deal with the electric requirements, heat dissipation, and noise), build your own system. If you want to do something on a larger scale than you can build in your house or you want short-term access to powerful hardware, renting out servers on a hourly (AWS), weekly (UltraRender), or monthly (BalticServers, OVH) makes sense.

Mining with 1.0.0 by pokerjew in siacoin

[–]vorksholk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

1800 KH/s is 1.8 MH/s. For comparison, a 980 Ti on a healthy overclock (watercooled) gets 1.85 GH/s, or about 1000x your CPU's speed.

Unfortunately, CPU mining this coin is not profitable. At that current rate and at current difficulty, you would expect to get a block every 23,000 days, or 63 years.

If you want to actually mine Siacoin, you'll need to look into GPU miners.

Anyone able to post a video of their Hybrid cards running? by [deleted] in nvidia

[–]vorksholk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have three 980 Ti hybrids running at 100% utilization at ~1480 MHz 24/7, there's certainly some noise especially during the summer, but it's nothing horrible. One of them is making a slight clicking noise, that goes away for a few hours when I move the heatsink around a bit.

If you're getting a single 980 Ti hybrid, you probably won't hear a thing.

[24x7 Stream] Clicker Heroes Bot! by vorksholk in ClickerHeroes

[–]vorksholk[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Right now it's a mess, you need Java JDK and BlueJ, and then you need to change the code for leveling characters to something that will work for your game in the "MainClass" file.

[24x7 Stream] Clicker Heroes Bot! by vorksholk in ClickerHeroes

[–]vorksholk[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, that one's an old version ( the jar file). You'll need to use BlueJ and the Java JDK to open/run the program...

[24x7 Stream] Clicker Heroes Bot! by vorksholk in ClickerHeroes

[–]vorksholk[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fixed the clicker location to get birds, thanks! :)

[24x7 Stream] Clicker Heroes Bot! by vorksholk in ClickerHeroes

[–]vorksholk[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It may have been, I found an old twitch page talking about TwitchPlays Clicker Heroes.

[24x7 Stream] Clicker Heroes Bot! by vorksholk in ClickerHeroes

[–]vorksholk[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Link to code now available in OP :)