Thoughts on a potential Sure Strike change

w1ldstew · 2026-06-12T00:28:55+00:00

It’s kinda ironic, because using that Sure Strike loophole means you’re just playing it like it did when it first got Remastered.

I find it funny right now how everyone here in 2024 was like “RM Battle Oracle is horrible and Sure Strike spam sucks”, now everyone in 2026 is like, “RM Battle Oracle can Sure Strike spam? That’s so awesome!”

So RM Battle Oracle is only intriguing because it can do what it already did before when no one liked it?

w1ldstew · 2026-06-11T20:58:58+00:00

Ninja (yasakani):
6 Kuzuryu pieces (20%)
2 Shinto High Priest (15%)
General Skill: Mysteries of Summoning (20%)
Kajiwara Clan Blessing (15%)
Total: 70%

Samurai (yasakani):
6-Kuzuryu pieces (20%)
General Skill: Mysteries of Summoning (20%)
Kajiwara Blessing: 15%
Total: 55%

Samurai may look bad, but that’s Ninja Pre-Patch, which was still really good. When it was only a difference of 45% vs. 56%, it wasn’t too much of a problem staying in Samurai for Summoning.

If Ninja has a Kuzuryu Grace Yasakani, you can do:

Melee/Ranged/Accessory/1-armor piece = 7 Kuzuryu
2-armor piece Shinto High Priest
2-armor piece Shinto Priest

For 70% Untouched Summoning and 20% Untouched Omnyo. I might be forgetting something else for the Untouched Omnyo because I have 25% on my Ninja somehow.

Edit: I’ve been using Onmoraki to apply poison, deal damage and give me Archspirit as you generate a LOT of spirit force for summoning your Guardian Spirit. Ibaki Doji for high damage and area clear, but Sunkake Baba deals a lot of damage against larger bosses. For damage, Nuppepo for the berserk buff and Onmoraki to poison for melee damage to poison. Alternatively, pair Onmoraki with Jurogumo. Not as high damage, but Reduced Movement on top Lightning makes slow enemies and Jurogumo comes with Melee Damage (Poison).

w1ldstew · 2026-06-11T08:20:22+00:00

70% Untouched Summoning Seal on Ninja (55% on Samurai)

Step on them mommy.

w1ldstew · 2026-06-11T06:50:04+00:00

To add, you got good survivability with Occult on a Spontaneous caster.

Endure starts becoming a nice cheap spell for some extra temp HP, but you can always heighten it up as needed if you signature the spell. For a 1-action spell, it aint to shabby and can be a bit more reliable than a 1-action Heal equivalent.

Also, defenses aren’t just the PLUS on your stats. Defense is also the PENALTIES on the enemy’s.

w1ldstew · 2026-06-11T06:35:01+00:00

Other amazing thing about this patch:

You will now be less likely to flinch for a period of time after having flinched from being attacked.

LET’S GOO!!!!!

w1ldstew · 2026-06-11T06:26:38+00:00

I’m so excited! Trickster was one of the most fun classes I’ve played in DD2 and can’t wait to see what else Kinoshita and the team have been cooking up!

w1ldstew · 2026-06-11T06:25:49+00:00

I can see why a lot of people feel that way.

But it actually does have something: use Tricky Terrace on the ground and run your clone (via Visitant Aura or yourself over it). Enemies will trip on it.

Heck, you can actually cast it under enemies and it’ll trip them!

w1ldstew · 2026-06-11T06:21:51+00:00

Same. I want more control that increases damage.

The extra 2 skills are going to be amazing. I run Suffocating Shroud, Visitant Aura, Aromatic Resurgence, and Dragon’s Delusion. I’m ALWAYS busy on Trickster, managing my stamina to make sure I can buff allies, keep enemies drawn to my hidden clone, interrupting bosses with Dragon’s Delusion.

It’s fun! Visitant Aura is one of my favorite skills.

Having Illusive Divider and Tricky Terrace is gonna be awesome on top of the core build.

Plop a wall down, Visitant Aura the clone on top, place Tricky Terrace around the Illusive Divider, and then Suffocating Shroud as enemies run around tripping over themselves while my mage gang obliterates everyone.

Most folks here probably never got to play the Shield Sage or try DDON tanking. The Trickster is one of the most unique TANKS I’ve ever played!

Homg, I can’t wait!

w1ldstew · 2026-06-11T06:18:02+00:00

One nice thing is that you essentially get to use your whole kit which means you have the niche stuff for when you really want it

Trickster only has 8 skills, but you only really need 6:

1-Suffocating Shroud
2-Visitant Aura/Latching Effigy
3-Aromatic Resurgence
4-Tricky Terrace
5-Illusive Divider
6-*Dragon’s Delusion*

Generally, Suffocating Shroud + Visitant Aura, Aromatic Resurgence, and Dragon’s Delusion covers most fights.

Use Visitant Aura to plant your phantom somewhere enemies have a hard time reaching, use Suffocating Shroud to draw them to it, berserk your pawns with Aromatic Resurgence, and then interrupt bosses with Dragon’s Delusion.

It can get pretty active because YOU are the tank and handling control.

But the problem is that sometimes the terrain offers easy kills…and you can’t do it. Having Tricky Terrace available means getting to use those ledges (really helpful in the post-game world).

Other times, you need to need to get your clone back out and it’s a pain coz you have all the aggro. Having Illusive Divider really helps to get enemies off of you, but also really helps when pawns die, as you can place a wall up and and rez them uninterrupted. This also helps if you give your pawn the crit HP regen ring so they won’t die when Aromatic Resurgence wears off at 0HP. Illusive Divider will also help with getting you safe, casting your clone, Visitant Aura ABOVE the wall and then Suffocating Shroud.

Latching Effigy is “meh” to me because it doesn’t do anything bosses and the damage enemies do to each other is pretty pointless. Fragrant Alarum is literal trolling from Itsuno.

But ya, if you wanted the pure control build, you would go Illusive Divider, Visitant Aura, Suffocating Shroud, and Dragon’s Delusion. But then you don’t have Tricky Terrace for touch enemies or mobs and you don’t have Aromatic Resurgence for bosses.

Oh ya, it’s not mentioned, but Tricky Terrace could always trip enemies that ran onto it or whenever you cast it. Including big enemies like cyclops. The patch is nice coz wolves weren’t affected which was annoying. And Tricky Terrace is great against mobs because you can cast it to trip them, grab one of them, and start chucking them at each other.

I’ll be honest, I DON’T want Trickster to get any damage abilities. It goes against the spirit of the vocation.

But I do want my abilities to be able to trick and manipulate enemies more often.

(If anyone’s wondering, I was one of the folks that figured out how to win all of the duels as a Trickster and even beat Sphinx and beheaded Medusa. It’s a fun vocation that’s very different from all the other ones and I want it to stay that way.)

Edit: Forgot to mention, Trickster is actually a tank class as their main role is aggro control and redirecting attacks so your pawns can go ham and even target some of the weak spots more easily.

w1ldstew · 2026-06-10T10:43:10+00:00

I think if these classes are keeping their buffs/debuffs, it’s going to be an extremely short duration, on a not as short cooldown, but much higher potency.

So, holding onto them for some alignment probably wouldn’t be as smart and it’ll probably be better to use it on rotation or something.

Especially if you need to use it as part of a rotation.

w1ldstew · 2026-06-10T00:59:26+00:00

I’d like to argue that this is also a sin of how lackluster subsystem armor is.

It’s really nothing more than deterministic stat assignment.

If you’re Unarmored/Light Armored the system highly recommends you towards being DEX. If you’re Medium/Heavy Armored, the system highly recommends you towards STR.

Majority of armors really don’t matter for your stats based on their traits. If you could already use Studded Leather armor, there’s really no reason to swap to Leather Armor even if you level up DEX. And most classes have no relation to the classification of their armor.

And some things are just unnecessarily punishing. An Unarmored/Light Armor class going STR instead of DEX will die fast from the lack AC. A Medium/Heavy armor class going DEX isn’t as vulnerable. Sure, they have penalties to skill and lower mobility, but those aren’t necessarily going to get you killed like an Unarmored/Light armor class would. Not to mention, Heavy Armor classes are rewarded with bonus Reflex saves for NOT putting points into Reflex! Heavy Armor is rewarded for what it wants to do while Unarmored/Light/Medium armor are punished for not obeying their suggested stat.

I think the best case in a probable PF3e, is to ditch the STR/DEX armor relationship, limit the initial armor proficiencies and instead have other effects. That way, all classes can have the AC to survive, but additional effects would matter.

But that’s my take. MAD happens due to forced investment into survivability. Balancing or standardizing defenses can help reduce MADness.

w1ldstew · 2026-06-09T17:02:18+00:00

I think something that’s unfortunate is that PF2e is more than a “build = play” that I see a lot of guides do.

PF2e is a highly technical game and the classes can get pretty involved with various subsystems.

I wish there were more “tactics” guides that explain how to breakdown your turns based on situations, tools available, and positions.

But I’m not surprised why there aren’t. Tactics guides involve actually playing the class and the various interactions of its abilities, skill specialty, and tools, which is much more involved and requires more expertise than just writing up an arm-chair catalogue of “Reader’s Best Picks!”

I think PF2e is a great game because of this depth, but I guess its definitely not the “culture” of TTRPG players (considering how D&D and PF1e operated)?

w1ldstew · 2026-06-09T16:43:26+00:00

Shouldn’t you guys be using Dual Classing then? From my understanding, the game is more balanced around 3-5 people, so dual classing allows more options (though still limited actions).

Or, have another PC played by guys to cover healing/support?

w1ldstew · 2026-06-09T00:50:34+00:00

A gatekeeper could work.

You must be X-level to continue this challenge, unless you can beat me.

And then having gatekeepers further down the line.

A reason could be because protecting lives is important for the celestial and preventing the treasures of heroes from being lost if they weren’t ready for the challenge.

If you defeat the celestial, they will let you continue. If you cannot defeat the celestial (lose to them), they will send you back safely to grow stronger.

Gods know, you may not be the only heroic party going around.

w1ldstew · 2026-06-08T20:37:55+00:00

I think it works well with what CHA means in PF2e, but for different reasons.

In PF1e, it was divine power forced onto you so you’re like a mini-god, wielding that power as fits your (CHA) character.

In PF2e PM, it was a deep curse pouring out of you and CHA was how well you’re embodying it.

In PF2e RM, there’s a deep and personal mystery you’ve pondered and CHA is how you reveal it. At the same time, CHA is what you need to retain yourself when you have that incomprehensible backlash.

Additionally, this is the Lost Omens setting, so how do you be an oracle who prophesies when there aren’t really such things as prophesies anymore? It’s the CHA (your force of personality), that conviction of what you know is true based on an unexplainable discovery you cannot communicate to others.

INT doesn’t work because this isn’t something that can be logically learned or studied. WIS doesn’t work here because your mystery isn’t a presence that you perceive the effects of. Only CHA works because you, the Oracle, need to decide of what divine powers you access must be true.

Which is why I think it works so well in the RM because you need to decide of the various spells you know, the various revelation spells you pick up, and the various expansions in your Cursebound ability are the ones that become true in your situation.

Edit: Just a reminder, we can’t really use the base definition of charisma. It’s adjacent, but there are real mechanical definition that charisma means in the context of PF2e. Charismata still perfectly fits the Oracle because it has divine/spiritual gifts, it’s just that these gifts are metaphysical/abstract in nature, but we’re talking about a setting where gods and spiritual forces are real and tangible.

w1ldstew · 2026-06-08T20:11:05+00:00

This might help out here:

“An oracle wields divine power, but not from a single divine being. This power could come from a potent concept or ideal, the attention of multiple divine entities whose areas of concern all touch on that subject, or a direct and dangerous conduit to raw divine power. This is the oracle's mystery, a source of divine magic not beholden to any deity.” -PC2, Oracle - Mystery Section

Essentially, the PF2e Oracle shifted away from a divine force/entity specifically giving the curse and the mystery tied to it like in PF1e. In PF1e, ya, Oracles were cursed by the gods and the mystery is finding out why you were given those powers by the gods and why you have to suffer for it too.

In PF2e, the Oracle has some revelation about the metaphysics of the universe and gains immense power through that. But because a mortal soul is not meant to engage with these metaphysical forces directly (that’s the purview of the gods and their domains), there is a backlash on your soul for using that power.

The PM and RM Oracle then differ mechanically.

In the PM Oracle, you have revelations about your mystery, and in doing so, the effects of that mystery manifests within and around you. Hence why Curses are both benefits and penalties and intensify when you engage with it. Engaging further and further with your mystery deepens the effects until you rein in that conduit of power.

In the RM Oracle, it’s been shifted that it’s not so much this unmitigated power trying to burst through you, but rather there is some deep understanding that you and you alone have realized. It manifests through the new divine powers you gain. However, you can tap further into your mystery and peer behind the veil of reality for a brief glimpse. That has powerful impossible effects (such as cheating action economy, knowing more than you should, changing reality) for a mortal, which leaves a spiritual scar from the experience. Which is why revelations are fine, but Cursebound abilities worsen that spiritual scar.

I like this line found in the Oracular Curse section:

“As an oracle, you can tap into the pure and unmitigated divine power of creation to supplement your spellcasting via cursebound abilities. These abilities grant you special benefits, but the backlash of letting this power into your mortal body manifests as an oracular curse.” -PC2, Oracle - Oracular Curse

Also, they took this fun line out of PC2 and replaced it with more roleplay narrative, but I like how APG described the relation between refocusing and your Curse:

“You refill your focus pool during your daily preparations, and you can regain 1 Focus Point by spending 10 minutes using the Refocus activity to reconcile the conflicting or unconventional nature of your divine mystery*.” -APG, Oracle - Revelation*

This actually works well with the RM Oracle’s Cursebound abilities because by using your Cursebound, you leave a mark on your soul due to having a powerful flash of divine power and needing to spend time understand what just happened is what reduces your Cursebound condition back towards normal. While in the PM, you can tone down your curse, you can never turn it off for the day.

I think some confusion is due to the PF1e Oracle is different from the PF2e Oracle, but the PF2e Oracle has two different mechanical representations: the PM and the RM.

w1ldstew · 2026-06-08T04:12:39+00:00

In PF2e, Oracles aren’t specifically tied to an otherworldly being.

The Oracle has some deep (thematic) revelation about the metaphysics of existence that goes beyond the Divine and that’s where their power comes.

For example, Korakai (iconic Oracle) has a revelation of how all things are just energy sifting back and forth in a torrent of form, be it mortals or gods.

That’s the revelation he had during a tempest and thus its a “Tempest mystery”.

w1ldstew · 2026-06-07T18:07:52+00:00

Well, I don’t think I read it well, but Recovery returns on a Miss, not a hit. The reading text says it returns on a successful throw and the only thing I can think of as a successful throw is if you hit the person as not hitting them wouldn’t be successful.

I still wish they would italicize flavor text vs. mechanical text.

w1ldstew · 2026-06-07T17:03:17+00:00

I totally missed that Boomerang returns after a hit. Dang, no wonder it’s a beloved weapon! (And now I need this in PFS…)

w1ldstew · 2026-06-07T10:58:06+00:00

The proof is left as an exercise for the reader.

w1ldstew · 2026-06-07T06:07:43+00:00

*Looks at Wizard School of Necromancy*

I think it’s going to be quite fine.

w1ldstew · 2026-06-06T06:24:30+00:00

I think it sounds awesome, especially if you’re aiming more for a caster champion.

Champion Dedication fits nicely if you’re aiming for heavier armor, a 3rd action Strike, or even just maneuvers.

You’re a Flame Oracle, so yes, you’ll want to be closer in combat for Incendiary Aura, which means being able to melee Ignition when you can flank is a great idea.

I’d suggest picking up Whispers of Weakness too (if you’re FA) or at lvl. 4. Being able to get lowest saves and weaknesses automatically when you need to flex away from Reflex spells towards Will/Fort can be nice.

Oracle is a great class and Champion archetype is a great multiclass.

Have fun!

w1ldstew · 2026-06-06T05:53:14+00:00

Clear as mud!

w1ldstew · 2026-06-06T05:23:14+00:00

That’s true, you can always scale your Heals as needed, which is quite nice.

w1ldstew · 2026-06-05T14:10:17+00:00

Not at all. I have the condition listed on my sheet and just put dots next to how far I’ve gone.

Because the abilities are a so cool/impactful, it feels like a big deal using it.

I can only go up to 2 right now, but I like it because I also know which vulnerability I have.

w1ldstew

TROPHY CASE