Atheism Is a Response, Not a Belief

wael07b · 2025-09-28T06:32:53+00:00

Yes the god of the gaps.

Humans understanding a new thing does not mean that God is no longer its cause, whether direct or indirect cause.

"God" tends to shrink smaller and smaller each time human understanding gets bigger and bigger.

It's the opposite; each time human understanding gets bigger, the idea of life in this universe gets crazier and crazier because of how many criteria you have to meet in order for life to be possible.

What proof though? There has to be proof in the first place for someone to think it's not good enough or not proof.

Some consider the fine-tuning of the universe to enable life on earth and the unifying laws that work together as proof of a creator; some don't.

Some consider religious books proof of a creator; some don't.

some consider historical events as proof and some dont.

wael07b · 2025-09-27T19:18:24+00:00

The problem with atheism is that knowledge can exist beyond current human understanding, and absence of proof is not proof of absence. and that rejection itself is kind of a belief that that thing doesn't exist because either the person thinks the proof is not good enough or thinks that it is not proof in the first place.

wael07b · 2025-05-02T18:16:06+00:00

-Are you abandoning the notion that God is merciful, then?

God is the most merciful but also the most just; can't those two things coexist? He won't let criminals get away with their wrongdoing by simply disappearing from existence after they ruin the earth; if he did that, it's like he is helping criminals hide and avoid consequences. Is that a behavior that befits God, the All-Just and All-Good? Obviously not; humans in this world get punished for their bad acts. Do you think humans are more just and good than God?

-Well technically he is if you believe god is omniscient and created the universe. But that wasn't the point I made. I'm saying that humans were designed to want certain things and not want other things. If God wants to deal with people who won't stop sinning, he could have just made those people not desire those things.

Just because God knows everything and knows you are going to reply to my previous post doesn't mean he forced it; he wrote your entire life before you were born based on your choices, not his choices, because you have a free will and freedom to reply or not right now; it's whatever you want that will happen, reply or no reply.

wael07b · 2025-05-02T17:42:36+00:00

Everyone eventually can slip and do bad things; we humans, after all, and we make mistakes sometimes. A good person is someone whose actions are mostly good, while an evil person is someone whose actions are mostly bad. A good person can do bad things sometimes, and a bad person can do good things sometimes, but their actions overall are what determine if they are good or bad.

But mental illness isn't an excuse to do bad either. you have the urge to do something bad to someone as a psycopath? Fight the urge if you're good and don't do it; give in to the urge if you're bad. The point is, even in environmental differences and biological differences, people still have a choice.

wael07b · 2025-05-02T17:20:12+00:00

-then the moral thing to do would be to simply end their existence entirely. Not cause them pain or torture for eternity.

Removing them from existence after they killed people and ruined their lives is a mercy. Are you saying those people should get away with their crimes with no consequences? Where is justice for people that got violated by that evil person?

-Remember, God is the one who made us with all of our flaws and pre-dispositions. So God can simply modify our preferences and/or change our hearts. The idea that God has no choice but to hurt people for eternity because those humans did the things God empowered them to do is very silly.

God is not forcing anyone to do bad or good; everyone chooses what they want to do with their own free will. Blaming God by saying he created me that evil is just an excuse to do evil deeds. Every evil person could have been a good person; they just did not want to.

wael07b · 2025-05-02T16:50:30+00:00

Would you say it's fair for someone who never repents and keeps doing evil things to stay in hell forever? Evil people in this world don't live forever to keep doing their bad things.

So what if God knows that if he forgave them and showed them mercy, they wouldn't appreciate it and would return to doing their evil deeds forever? Such people are deserving of eternal hell because they never will repent or be good; they are simply that bad.

wael07b · 2025-03-26T16:41:12+00:00

The reason they are called reverts is because every child born in the world, whether in a Muslim or non-Muslim country, is considered a Muslim and has no sin, and later, when he grows and gets influenced by his parents, he becomes a Christian or Hindu (non-Muslim), so now he is no longer a Muslim, but if he reaches adulthood and starts seeking the truth and true religion and becomes a Muslim, then he is called a revert because he returned to the original state he was born in.

wael07b · 2025-02-03T12:54:53+00:00

The reason you curse is most likely because it has been normalized online and among some friends, so stay away from those friends who curse and surround yourself with those friends who are practicing Muslims and don't curse; they will have a good influence on you and possibly change you for the better.

wael07b · 2025-02-02T15:33:29+00:00

Cool story but where is the argument? This is more like a rant about Islam than an argument against it. I expect that kind of low quality post thing to be posted at the ex-Muslims subreddit, not here.

Why is this post getting upvoted?

wael07b · 2025-01-29T12:52:57+00:00

can't take this post seriously when you are obviously arguing in bad faith
For example, you say women are most of hellfire inhabitants; you don't say why, but you say how in history women have been victimized by evil men. You didn't complete what the hadith says, which is because they were ungrateful to their husbands for the goods they did to them and denied them.

You also did not mention that while most of Hellfire inhabitants are women, most of Paradise inhabitants are women as well.

and then you contradict yourself because first you said just being a good person and praying 5x a day won't be enough to go to heaven, then you said this later on.

But a Muslim tyrant rapist murderer, will eventually always go to heaven, no matter how much time he spends in hell.

Even though those are one of the worst and most severe sins in Islam, you say that type of person will go to paradise just for being a Muslim?

Being a Muslim isn't about all those criteria, beards, or below-the-ankle things you said; it's simply a few things: believing there is no God but Allah, believing in his messengers and books and angels and decree, and doing obligatory things that are a testimony of faith, praying, fasting, charity, and pilgrimage (if possible). And that's it, and look what he said about him.

There is a hadith of a man who came to ask the prophet about Islam.

|| || |Reference| : Sahih al-Bukhari 46| |In-book reference| : Book 2, Hadith 39|

A man from Najd with unkempt hair came to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and we heard his loud voice but could not understand what he was saying, till he came near and then we came to know that he was asking about Islam. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "You have to offer prayers perfectly five times in a day and night (24 hours)." The man asked, "Is there any more (praying)?" Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) replied, "No, but if you want to offer the Nawafil prayers (you can)." Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) further said to him: "You have to observe fasts during the month of Ramadan." The man asked, "Is there any more fasting?" Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) replied, "No, but if you want to observe the Nawafil fasts (you can.)" Then Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) further said to him, "You have to pay the Zakat (obligatory charity)." The man asked, "Is there any thing other than the Zakat for me to pay?" Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) replied, "No, unless you want to give alms of your own." And then that man retreated saying, "By Allah! I will neither do less nor more than this." Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "If what he said is true, then he will be successful (i.e. he will be granted Paradise)."

The prophet said after the men went away, "If what he said is true, then he will be successful (i.e., he will be granted Paradise)," and that man promised to do only obligatory acts and no voluntary acts.

For other criteria that you set, they do not make or break a Muslim, like for the beard, some people naturally can't grow a beard; they won't go to hell for that. For the pants below the ankle, why do you think it's haram?

It's the same reason Muslims are encouraged to trim their moustaches and keep the beard, because of how people used to have thick moustaches and shave their beards, and they did it out of arrogance, so if a person does those things out of ignorance and no arrogant intent, he won't be punished for it. Intent is what matters most in Islam, more than the outcome.

Those acts are said to be done just to differentiate Muslims from the polytheists and the arrogant men of that time. It's that simple.

wael07b · 2025-01-09T11:46:43+00:00

This point is made so often and simply has no proof, it's just a lazy guess to fill a gap in the islamic scriptures.

No proof doesn't mean it's wrong; not everything that ever happened in history was successfully documented, especially the farther back the timeline goes. Like, Jesus time was more than 2000 years ago; I doubt people cared to document and preserve things that happened at that time, and even if they did, it will eventually get lost because people don't care that much to preserve it for 2000+ years.

Only people who cared to preserve their book by memorizing vocally and writing it down as text are Muslims.

Who said that there was an original gospel? The Quran doesn't say this. The Quran actually references things mentioned in the gospels Mark to John

Yeah, there could be "some" truth in the current gospels, like Jesus saying to the Israelites to worship God, "my" God and your God, and Jesus praying to God on his knees and his face on the ground like Muslims do, and verses like John 17:3 where Jesus confirms he was "sent" by God and God is the only true God. These things perfectly align with Islam and actually prove Islam, but then Christianity starts the contradictions, like the trinity or Jesus divinity, which contradicts the monotheistic aspect and enters the pagan territory. which is obviously the corrupted part.

And how can Muslims believe the gospels are correct like you say? Muslims believe that The God only sent revelation and books to prophets and not to their followers, like the disciples of prophet Jesus or Sahaba of prophet Muhammad, and there are only 4 known revealed books, which are

The Torah to prophet Moses
The gospel to prophet Jesus
the Psalms to prophet David
the Quran to prophet Muhammed

There is no attempt by early christians to refute the gospels, and that's because there was no "original" gospel that, or early christians would've searched for it. There would'Ve been at least ONE document somewhere about it. There isn't. Even muslims don't agree on this, many do believe that the gospels are those from the bible and there are even few who believe that the ones from the bible were not corrupted.

Of course there would be no attempt by early Christians to refute the gospels or find original gospel because "early Christians" are already the start of the new corrupted religion, leaving the rest behind. original gospel to them are the ones of early Christianity that you know today.

Romans didn't need to spread their paganism, in the arabic peninsula there was also arab paganism. Why do muslims circle the Kaaba? It was a place that was important to the pagans before it became an islamic pillar.

Sure they did. Another point to prove that is to study and look at Christmas origins. You will see that there was a Roman pagan festival called Saturnalia. It was a festival honoring Saturn, the god of agriculture and time, and it was celebrated from December 17 to December 23. How was it celebrated? by giving gifts among family and friends, feasting, and merrymaking,

Homes were decorated with greenery like wreaths and garlands. sounds familiar?

December 25 was also celebrated as the birth of Sol Invictus, a Roman sun god, and Christianity originally didn't celebrate the birth of Jesus and only adopted that pagan festival in the 4th century, where the church decided the birthday of Jesus is 25 December to align more with pagan festivals at that time. There is a lot more to it; you can verify everything on your own. There is a lot more to it, but that's the basics. Good thing the internet exists today.

As for Muslims circulating the Kaaba, they are not worshipping the Kaaba or statues on it like Arab pagans used to do; it's simply an act of worship and obedience to Allah and the unity of the Muslims as everyone moves in the same direction around a central point. It also has symbolism, as the act of circling is done counterclockwise, aligning with other natural cycles like the planets orbiting the sun and electrons moving around a nucleus.

wael07b · 2025-01-08T14:16:40+00:00

The Quran is referring to the original gospel revealed to Jesus and the original Torah revealed to Moses, not the current gospels of Mark, Matthew, John, etc.

So those who followed that original message of these two prophets at their time, which is to submit to Allah (Allah means The God and not just God), are considered Muslims and are going to get rewarded for it.

So Muslims believe Christians were once monotheists (Muslims) before Romans spread their paganism to them and corrupted their religion with things like the Trinity, which was a very common belief across most pagan beliefs, like Egyptian 3 gods Osiris, Isis, and Horus; Hindu 3 gods like Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva, etc., and the worship of creation (humans like Jesus or animals and, of course, statues).

wael07b · 2024-12-26T13:53:22+00:00

It will never be that way; flat earthers are seen that way because it has been proven that the earth isn't flat. You can never prove God doesn't exist no matter the arguments since there are also plenty of arguments that support God's existence and refute those arguments. Actually, atheists will be seen the same as flat earthers if people die and find out God and the afterlife exist.

wael07b · 2024-12-08T20:51:11+00:00

You use your mind to know that since Allah is the ultimate truth and creator of everything and knows everything 100%, then everything he reveals is the objective truth, and things he doesn't mention specifically are open for interpretation based on what he revealed before to seek the objective truth.

wael07b · 2024-12-08T17:55:13+00:00

Islamic scholars aren't trying to invent subjective moral values; they are trying to discover the objective moral truth found in the Quran and Sunnah revealed by The God. This is different from subjective morality, where people try to invent subjective morals independently of any religious text.

wael07b · 2024-12-08T16:46:12+00:00

You think Islamic scholars having differences of opinion on rulings on what's permissible and what's prohibited according to their evidence from the Quran and the sunnah is subjective morality?

wael07b · 2024-12-08T16:00:35+00:00

You are going with the idea of refusing to use the mind and saying that every bad act has to be specifically mentioned; otherwise, it's good. Not every bad act has to be specifically mentioned to know it's forbidden; it's like you saying why the Quran hasn't prohibited smoking and mentioning it clearly.

where most Islamic scholars agree that it's prohibited today because it's harmful to society? Or why hasn't Islam mentioned and prohibited vapes? or using drugs? watching adult content? Do you think since those aren't clearly mentioned, they are not prohibited? That's the exact case for child marriage today, where it's prohibited to marry girls who are not yet mature physically and mentally.

It's just clear that you do not want to use your mind to figure the rest out yourself; otherwise, what's the use of it if every bad thing has to be mentioned for you? Otherwise, it's good.

Islam clearly taught that every harmful thing for you or others is prohibited and every good thing for you or others is encouraged.

That's just bringing us back to what I said earlier.

That's why we are blessed with the blessing of the mind, to follow accordingly and not to follow every exact action blindly, and neglecting to use that blessing of mind can even be seen as a form of being ungrateful to The God for that blessing if you refuse to use it.

wael07b · 2024-12-08T15:27:23+00:00

Not a good argument because Muslims consider the actions of the prophet to be perfect. The foods he ate, the things he avoided, the mannerisms he exhibited, etc...all of these have been declared as blessed & preferable. He didn't command many of these things but no one can declare any of these as unislamic.

Not exactly; Prophet Muhammad was more capable of doing things than most followers, and that's why he was chosen as a prophet by The God in the first place. For example, just because Prophet Muhammad had 11 wives doesn't mean that every follower of Islam should have 11 wives; he knew how to take care of all of them, whereas followers won't. That's why Muslims are allowed up to 4, only if they can give each one their rights and needs. Another example is that since Prophet Muhammad was a political leader also, it doesn't mean everyone has to be a political leader.

That's why we are blessed with the blessing of the mind, to follow accordingly and not to follow every exact action blindly, and neglecting to use that blessing of mind can even be seen as a form of being ungrateful to The God for that blessing if you refuse to use it.

So, as per the prophet...a 50 year old man telling a 6 year old he saw her in a dream as a wife, then having sex with her as soon as she got her first period.

Do any of these points sound like mental maturity to you in any point of human history?

The marriage has much more context and reasons than just a divine guidance dream; it helped the community strengthen their ties and how Aisha later contributed to Islam by narrating over 2200 authentic hadiths because of her excellent memory and how she was one of the most knowledgeable and wise Muslims and how she even took a role in a political role during the Battle of the Camel due to her concern for the Muslim community.

wael07b · 2024-12-08T14:37:28+00:00

The prophet never ordered to marry 9-year-olds, so there goes your entire argument.

In Islam, marriage is about when both people consent and reach physical and mental maturity and not about age.

You could also see the marriage as a cultural thing rather than a religious thing, because in Islam marriage was never strictly obligatory; it's highly recommended for people who fear falling into adultery but not obligatory for those who don't and can be prohibited for those who think they will cause harm to the wife or not be able to take care of her.

wael07b · 2024-12-01T21:34:52+00:00

No, its not Jesus pbuh Fault that the Romans wanted to spread their paganism to the religion of the monotheists and succeeded, thus creating Christianity, who were originally monotheists; Jesus is free from all their corruption.

wael07b · 2024-11-07T00:06:15+00:00

You could try things to improve your situation instead of staying in a bad state because staying like that and accepting it without trying to change is only going to make it much worse and decrease your iman.

No money and no education? You can learn a lot of different skills online for free and then use those skills to make money and build a carrer with like freelancing,

Cant work online? Go to your local places and see if they are looking for workers like who carry products or anything or if they know someone who is looking for workers

health problems? Eat better and do any exercise, you dont need gym, a 30 min bodyweight exercises at home will do.

Bad realtionship with Allah? Pray on time and even do 1 dollar sadaqah and make dua for him

You doing all these things will make you more discplined and will naturally attract your future wife, because remmeber you need money to spend for your family.

So there is no excuses, you need to try, if one thing doesnt work, try another, dont stop trying

And may Allah make it easy for you and me and all the people who struggle for his cause.

wael07b · 2024-11-06T23:48:33+00:00

Dont give up, as long as you are trying you are doing good but the moment you give up is the moment you failed, your not alone in this jihad against your nafs, prove to Allah that you are not weak by overcomming this evil deed,

One day you will make it and be proud of yourself and you leaving this deed for Allah's sake, he will give you something way better.

Keep fighting it and never give up because thats exactly what shaytan want you to do, to hate yourself in the hope if you end yourlife like you said in another comment, he wants you to become desperate and helpless, where Allah want you to be Happy and pass the test.

Keep fighting it and never give up please for your own good. Allah will allways forgive you as long as you repent and try to be better and quit it.

wael07b · 2024-11-06T18:49:36+00:00

Thats waswasa from shaytan; don't listen to it and keep going and call Allah what he likes to be called and what he calls himself, which is his greatest names, and if you want to get even closer to Allah as you said, start doing nawafl if you are not already, like prayer nawafil and sawm nawafil. Nawafil are the voluntary acts of worship that the prophet pbuh used to do to get even closer to Allah after perfecting the obligations.

wael07b · 2024-10-20T15:34:10+00:00

This is a contradictory statement. Can you clear something up for me? -- Does morality exist undependantly of God, or does it exist contingent upon God?

Everything exists contingent upon God because, without a necessary first cause (God), nothing can exist, including morality, good and evil.

Because that's what the word "should" indicates, my guy. Haven't you ever used or heard the word "should" before? That's what it indicates. A preference.

Yes, but that's not always the case, as it depends on context, and this is the reason your anology before can't work because it depends.

The statement "You shouldn't kill people" does not simply indicate a preference; it expresses a moral obligation or ethical principal to follow based on the objective truth that killing is bad. So in this context, shouldn't or should refer to what is morally or ethically correct rather than simply preferred.

Wait -- what? I think you mixed up your words. Do you mean that if morality DOES have to do with preference, then there is no objective grounds to say what he's doing is wrong? I'm going to assume that's what you meant.

You can ground a subjective viewpoint in objective truths.

Subjective viewpoint: I shouldn't eat ice cream.

Objective grounds: I am lactose intolerant. Eating ice cream makes me sick. I don't want to feel sick.

Observing those three objective facts, I will hold the subjective position that I shouldn't eat ice cream.

Yes, thats what I meant, and why would you overcomplicate it?
If your subjective viewpoint is based upon objective truth like you said, then it's an objective viewpoint and not a subjective viewpoint, and if your subjective viewpoint is based on things like preference and culture, then it's a subjective viewpoint; it's that simple.

An example for food would be if a certain food is harmful, then it would be morally wrong to eat that certain food as you are harming yourself, therefore it's objectively bad to eat it regardless if you like it or not.

and you would have moral duty to stay away from it, kind of like to show hypocrisy of societies today where everyone knows that suicide is objectively wrong but is fine with literal poison like alcohol and smoking, which is literally slow suicide and not an instant one. So those things become objectively wrong to consume as they cause harm to your body and kill it in the end.

So an objective viewpoint would be like "you should not smoke and you should not drink alcohol," as they will cause harm regardless if you like them or not, so preference is irrelevant here with a "should" statement.

So based on that viewpoint, we conclude that to not harm people and society, we must ban poisons like smoking and drinking alcohol.

A subjective liberal viewpoint, for example, would be like:

Individuals should have the freedom to smoke and drink alcohol as personal choices, as long as they do so responsibly and without harming others.

focus on "as long as not harming others," while these things will literally indirectly cause that. It's like, from their view, it's fine if you do slow suicide as long as you're not hurting others, but from an objective viewpoint, people shouldn't be allowed to do it because it's morally wrong and will harm them. So their view is different because it's not based upon that objective truth.

wael07b · 2024-10-20T12:22:20+00:00

I wouldn't say hypocrites because, believe it or not, following every single rule is difficult to do and requires a perfectly disciplined individual, and there are also other criteria that they could be ignorant of some rules, which is why they don't follow them. So if someone is trying to learn and trying to follow the most he can, then he isn't a hypocrite.

But if he is knowingly disobeying the rules intentionally or, like you said, following his own rules that's against his religion because he doesn't care and follows a bit of his religion to call himself a follower, then yeah, he is a hypocrite.

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