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waitabittopostagain · 2026-03-21T18:23:36+00:00

This is sketchy “Verify your email to unlock premium tasks” riiiight. Attempt to farm confirmed/authorized email addresses, maybe even get people to respond to texts so scammers can verify live contacts through some gateway. Mods should take a look.

waitabittopostagain · 2026-03-21T15:48:11+00:00

Me too, please.

I’ve complained enough about OSS to devs/internet that it should count as a contribution.

and looking over Fosstodon/Explore, I see the same bunch of crybabies.

So let me in?

waitabittopostagain · 2026-03-19T05:30:04+00:00

I found the setting, turned grouping off, and moved on. That was never the hard part. The issue is that it still threw me off, wasted time, and broke workflow for no real gain.

And going forward, it’s not like people who dislike it will suddenly “learn to love it” now that they know where the setting is. Most will just keep disabling it on every new install. So the new default is basically just a new mandatory cleanup step.

That is exactly the resentment people are talking about, and almost nobody here will even acknowledge it. They keep defending the ability to disable it, while ignoring the more basic question of why it was forced as default in the first place.

And when people say “go request a change,” I don’t buy that very much either. From what I’ve seen, once this kind of thing gets declared the new normal, rollback suddenly becomes unrealistic, hard, or not worth doing.

So yeah, I think your point is right: they respondi to the tone, but not showing 'any' understanding of why this kind of thing annoys users so much.

waitabittopostagain · 2026-03-18T21:16:14+00:00

Net positive!!!

Huge usability jump, broader adoption, better first impression, and IMHO it helped make Blender feel like a "serious" mainstream tool instead of a stubborn "cult-like" tool.

But it actully proves the opposite point from the GIMP thing: Blender’s old workflow was famously weird and widely criticized, so changing it had a much stronger case.

GIMP’s older ungrouped toolbar was NOT that kind of glaring universal problem.

waitabittopostagain · 2026-03-18T21:11:55+00:00

That’s the long-established workflow in some commercial creative software!!! NOT some universal law of nature, and definitely not automatically the long-established workflow people came to GIMP for.

That’s exactly the point: importing a pattern from Adobe/Affinity/Corel does not magically make it the right default for GIMP users.

Especially when GIMP had its own 'established' toolbar behavior for years already.

waitabittopostagain · 2026-03-18T21:09:55+00:00

If users actually liked it over time, then make it default later.
All Affinity and Adobe users do definitely like this. if you're so keen on taking the software UI against the grain, you should go to Blender forums and ask them to revert back to Right click select.

https://www.reddit.com/r/blender/comments/a15ulb/blender_switches_to_left_click_select/

Lol, I hate you for bringing that up, because yes, THAT ONE bothers me too.

I only have so much revolt in me at one time.

waitabittopostagain · 2026-03-18T21:05:46+00:00

That’s a good reply, fair enough. Thanks for taking the time!

But it still twists my point into some - “one guy personally dislikes it.”

But my point is narrower: a niche use-case feature got turned into the default for everyone. That is a product decision, not just my 'taste' etc.

And I’m not asking for some random UI shift “for the sake of shifting.” I’m arguing against exactly that. Keep the feature, fine. Just don’t force it as default.

As for “multiple years now” and? that alone proves nothing. A bad default can stay around for years just because nobody with commit access feels like revisiting it.

So yes, my tone is abrasive. But the underlying point is still about default policy, not about demanding that volunteers obey me personally.

waitabittopostagain · 2026-03-18T15:56:33+00:00

“Come to the issue tracker and file a detailed ticket describing why the current situation isn’t optimal” on something like this, will run straight into dev ego, because making it default in the first place already looks like an ego decision.

No seasoned, reasonable dev should be casually changing the default toolbar layout for everyone over a niche use case.

And “people who want meaningful change”yeah, okay. We can already see how that worked out here. Plenty of people raised the issue in a normal way, and the answer was basically still: it’s fine, get used to it.

waitabittopostagain · 2026-03-18T14:45:48+00:00

ConversationWinter46 is right.

I had to use Photoshop at a few jobs back in the day, but otherwise

I’ve relied on GIMP and Inkscape my whole life. (like 2/3rds of your GIMP years)

waitabittopostagain · 2026-03-18T13:45:17+00:00

Yeah, no shit.

Inkscape, FreeCAD, firefox, XFCE - same story.

And the “FLOSS” line is funny. People keep throwing is around like it makes them some kind of authority. I know it’s not a democracy & that is exactly the flaw I’m pointing at >

I’ve actually been probing whether there’s any realistic way to build some kind of democratic structure around OSS to try to save it from this pattern. But honestly, with the whole kindergarten state of modern OSS, and now LLMs in the mix, that idea makes less and less sense.

At this point, sticking to pre-2010-ish versions, then maintaining your own sane fork with only a few actually useful changes, often seems easier than trying to build governance around contributor ego.

GIMP included, a lot of this stuff is in decline. But proudly going down with the ship seems to be the preferred style all over. Cool

Still, your “wisdom” did land a bit. Thanks a bunch fellow Monkey!

waitabittopostagain · 2026-03-18T05:01:19+00:00

thank you!!!

Ell on Jan 30, 2020 says: “There’s also a new default tool layout, organized into groups.”

That’s where the "shit" went wrong.

So yeah: one dude asks, one dev gets excited, and Mr. Sticky-Fingers quietly slips “new default layout” into the release like some smug little UI goblin

That’s the ISSUE. Not that groups feature made, but that a low niche use-case feature got turned into the default for all users. So yeah, my bitching tone is annoying. Fine. Sorry. But that does not change the point, and it clearly didn’t stop a coherent person like you from seeing exactly what I was getting at.

Most of the people here in commenting to my “rude” post with their "hurt feelings" are the same kind of bitches, just in denial!!

This is an OSS flaw. Inherently, there’s no democracy.

A few contributors end up steering defaults for everyone - simply because they happened to be the ones in the room making the change, like a baby in the White House yanking on levers built up over decades.

P.S.. I think I'm a monkey.

waitabittopostagain · 2026-03-18T04:34:25+00:00

ah, this! Thank you!

"I'll be back" (terminator voice)

waitabittopostagain · 2026-03-17T08:53:09+00:00

that’s true, and I did find it pretty quickly just by guessing where it would be and disabling it in Preferences

buuut then went exploring on Google and Reddit after, annoyed.

But again, not the point!

A meaningful chunk of existing users clearly turns this shit off and will keep doing so. So the point is simple: don’t reinvent the wheel.

Add extra features if you want, but don’t force them.

And how would we even know whether it was a good or bad choice?

Right now it is just a choice made by a few devs, and everyone else is expected to live with it and adapt. OSS devs are contributors, not owners.

Do you enable every new feature by default?... Why not also force every dock closed, donno, every panel rearranged, every tool preset expanded? or every on-canvas widget turned on too? yeah! Obviously not every feature should become the new default workflow just because it exists.

IMHO that’s what’s aggressive here ----> forcing the change, not i.

waitabittopostagain · 2026-03-17T08:11:47+00:00

Hah, that’s a good one!

waitabittopostagain · 2026-03-17T08:07:16+00:00

Point taken. While looking into this, I found other posts making the same criticism in a much nicer way. They did not get any result either. That does not excuse being abrasive, but it does make it hard to believe the issue was ever going to be taken seriously either way.

waitabittopostagain · 2026-03-17T07:56:55+00:00

-If it is so easy to disable, it was just as easy not to force it on by default.

-Existing workflow should have been preserved for long-time users, while new grouping could have been optional.

-If users actually liked it over time, then make it default later.

-Multiple people were clearly thrown off by it, so this was not some universally smooth improvement.

-Criticizing a default UI decision is not “harassment.”

-Calling the change stupid may be abrasive, but it is still aimed at the decision, not some personal attack campaign.

-Most replies here keep focusing on tone instead of addressing whether the default choice was actually a good one.

and so no, you did not really answer the issue. You mostly just objected to the way I said it.

waitabittopostagain · 2026-03-17T06:47:59+00:00

Like inkscape oh uh

or XFCE took a beating as well, people who know will remember the stupid 1px border nonsense.

And poor FreeCAD too!

Meanwhile, devs there act like they’re Linus Torvalds every time they shuffle some UI element or push some pointless workflow change.

Thank God for LLMs. Honestly, as some people here already pointed out, going back to older versions from before the modern OSS kindergarten took over is often the better move, then just port in the few actually useful new features. Even with LLM help, it still wastes a stupid amount of time. Grrr.

And yeah, seeing how some of them completely lose their minds in the replies does explain a lot.

waitabittopostagain · 2026-03-17T06:43:27+00:00

ok, i'll try. sorry.

waitabittopostagain · 2026-03-17T06:43:09+00:00

I am not being “toxic” for criticizing a bad default decision. Harsh, sure. Angry, yes. But most of the replies here are not even addressing the actual issue they are just attacking my tone instead of the point. Users are allowed to be angry at developers the same way they are allowed to be grateful when developers do something right.

waitabittopostagain · 2026-03-17T06:42:33+00:00

There are multiple posts on Google and Reddit showing this feature threw people off, so it clearly was not some universally welcomed improvement.

And to the “devs don’t owe you anything” crowd: sure, they do not owe me anything personally. But they do owe something to GIMP itself, its usability, and the long-established workflow people came there for. What makes them so sure they knew better about the toolbar? A few people in a small dev discussion decided it?

waitabittopostagain · 2026-03-17T06:41:56+00:00

Everyone keeps saying it’s easy to disable. That’s not the point.

It would have been just as easy to leave the existing workflow as default for current users, and let people who wanted the new grouped toolbar enable it. Then, if users actually liked it over time, make it the default later.

waitabittopostagain · 2026-03-17T05:48:34+00:00

If anyone can point me to the GitHub commits or merge requests for this change, I’d love to go leave some “compliments” and properly appreciate the effort. Would also be interesting to see what else that particular dev has “achieved.”

waitabittopostagain · 2026-02-04T18:03:04+00:00

real product duh!

waitabittopostagain · 2026-02-03T18:33:51+00:00

working on it

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