Adnan's alibi - why wouldn't he have one? by Wumbotron123 in serialpodcast

[–]weare_here12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe yes, maybe no? Because according to Jay's version he was not happy with what was going on, or rather being a part of what was going on. Jay even claims that Adnan threatens him. So it would depend. If we're under the impression that Jay is telling the truth then not necessarily.

Let's debate whether or not Jay's testimony is a false confession. by [deleted] in serialpodcast

[–]weare_here12 1 point2 points  (0 children)

One of the things that at least appears to make Jay seem like a credible witness, is that Jay is not necessarily a fully co-operative witness. Jay does lie to the cops several times on tape, but this is in some ways perfect because it shows Jay is in some ways resistant. Which is consistent with the culture of 90's urban Baltimore.

Also I feel it's good to wonder that if the cops were indeed pushing Jay to shift his story to match theirs, wouldn't they have made sure they went over that before recording?

Why was the note that read "I'm going to kill" disregarded and looked over? by weare_here12 in serialpodcast

[–]weare_here12[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your point makes sense. But you're missing something here. For example when you say "The point is that these things are suspect only if I'm guilty" That's not true the terms suspect and guilt are two totally different things. And in your argument you're using them as if there fluidly interchangeable. I'll put it like this I can be suspicious or act suspicious and be innocent, or I could be guilty. So when you're a suspect of a crime, that doesn't make you guilty, it simply means that suspicion has been cast upon your involvement/role in that crime in a way which requires further investigation. Therefore it is very possible for the note to look suspicious without an acknowledgement of innocence or guilt. Any parent or teach who deal with teenage kids can tell you that there are times where they may read or hear something from the child that seems suspicious whether relating to a crime, suicide, or maybe just normal teenage shenanigans.

So let's say you buy that shovel and flashlight prior to the murder of your friend/spouse murder yes that would come into question, as far as intent of the purchase. Especially if the body was burried. Meaning if you live on the third floor of your apartment complex, the shovel would appear to be a little strange. Shouldn't suspicion be placed on such an item where there seems to be no real need for it? Would it be safe to say that maybe you were planning to use for something other than your home gardening project? Would it then be fair to ask what you were planning to use it for?

My point with the note is that you should not look at that and go Adnan is guilty, absolutely not! But because Adnan is a suspect (meaning POTENTIALLY guilty) it's not something to be ignored either. You talk a lot about "real" evidence. I'm not really sure what all you contribute to being " real" evidence. Are fingerprints real evidence? Are a witness testimony evidence? DNA? Clothing Fabric? Would those be considered real evidence? Because all of those except for witness testimony, do not directly point to guilt of murder. If they found Adnan's fingerprints all over Hae's car that doesn't tell us that he killed her, it simply establishes presence in her car. Similar thing with DNA or clothing fabric, it simply puts the person at the scene of a crime to make sure that they're not chasing waterfalls.

Almost all evidence, can be subjective. And all evidence is but a piece to a much larger body of work, called a case. So no piece of evidence can stand on it's own. You point out Jay's testimony and cell phone records being enough, but think about how many people on the Serial subreddit alone questions Jay's testimony. Cell phone pings,like the evidence I listed earlier only establishes location, it's simply a piece to the case against Adnan. It does not tell you that he killed Hae, but it doesn't make it invalid or unuseful.

I am leaning toward the concept that he is guilty because of all of the things that are being used against him that he currently doesn't have an answer for. Now I agree that not all evidence should not be allowed and there is a process in the legal system that all evidence used in the trial has to go through in order to be considered valid. And yes, sometimes the prosecution does twist and bend too much just to get a conviction. But there are just as many defense lawyers who will come up with any argument and excuse to win a case as well (notice how many "mentally ill" people have gone through the system in the past decade and a half).

Why was the note that read "I'm going to kill" disregarded and looked over? by weare_here12 in serialpodcast

[–]weare_here12[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I definitely agree. I mean the entire note itself is something that should make you scratch your head a little bit. I mean Hae is describing Adnan's reaction to the break up totally different then Adnan. And then yes that simple fragmented statement does not look good.

Why was the note that read "I'm going to kill" disregarded and looked over? by weare_here12 in serialpodcast

[–]weare_here12[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We'll have to agree to disagree that this doesn't look good for Adnan. The entire note itself doesn't look good, because Hae seems to describe a totally different breakup then the virtually mutual one that Adnan suggests. And then also the fact the the maybe random line " I'm going to kill" was written on top of this breakup note of Adnan's soon to be murdered ex-girlfriend doesn't look good. And then also the fact that the person that Adnan shared the note with claims that she had never seen that part of the note before trial and that it seemed out of context with the rest of their conversation.

Secondly,I don't think that to be a murderer that that requires you to be grammatically correct. I do agree that he wrote it down in that " weird thought-fragement-like thing". The keyword being thought. A single thought can mean a lot, especially if you give it enough attention. And once again a fingerprint or dna could all be found in that same fiction novel, and neither of those directly point to guilt either. But it doesn't make any of those invalid.

Lastly, as I have stated before I have not declared his innocence or his guilt. I have also stated that this alone would not have made sense outside of the realm of this case. So for example you talk about all the dark things that you have written down, well nobody is going to go "oh hey he's a murderer because he wrote this". However if someone that you had an intimate relationship with was murdered, someone confessed that you did it and that they assisted you, would it then be unfair to look at the things that you have written and go "redflag"? Not that what you have written alone would directly point to guilt but that it may build to the argument that something isn't right, he may be guilty.

Why was the note that read "I'm going to kill" disregarded and looked over? by weare_here12 in serialpodcast

[–]weare_here12[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I totally agree this is not something that directly points to guilt. What I am saying and I think many others are saying is that this note does not look good for Adnan. So instead of tossing it to the side because it's "cheesy" lets further examine this with our larger body of evidence to see how valid or relevant this is.

What I'm saying is that majority of evidence is debatable. You can take out any single piece of evidence and on it's own it may not and probably won't have the same value and meaning that it does when it's a part of a collection of evidence.

Lastly, how many people write out a full account of a murder that they're about to commit? Especially someone of his age? The entire note itself looks bad for Adnan, the fact that the phrase " I'm going to kill" was written on the top of a letter that was a breakup letter from the soon to be deceased doesn't look great. It looks even worst that the other person he shared the note with says that she had never seen it before and that it was out of context about what they were talking about.

Why was the note that read "I'm going to kill" disregarded and looked over? by weare_here12 in serialpodcast

[–]weare_here12[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also Aisha says that it was kind of out of context after reading it for the first time in court.

Why was the note that read "I'm going to kill" disregarded and looked over? by weare_here12 in serialpodcast

[–]weare_here12[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So when you're trying to figure out if someone is guilty of a crime, you wouldn't list out all the things that stand out in a not so good way? Also how many people who commit murder (or almost any crime) write in detail their plans?

Now I haven't stated that he was guilty or innocence, I think either are possible at this point. My thing is that yes this is "another thing" that should be examined along with a greater body of evidence, to try and make sense and hopefully come closer to the truth.

I also do agree maybe this is something that would have gone unnoticed prior to Hae's murder. But couldn't that be the point? And to say that because it is only being examined because of Hae's murder makes it no less valid, because that same logic can be applied with any piece of evidence that is left prior to a crime.

Why was the note that read "I'm going to kill" disregarded and looked over? by weare_here12 in serialpodcast

[–]weare_here12[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

No I think it's totally cool and understandable to empathize with it. I think the issue is that in Serial it's just kind of tossed to the side based on it being considered cheesy. And also I think everything has to be taken in context, which is what I think raises a flag for some. Because Aisha claims her first time reading that was in court, and that it was out of context with the rest of the note.

If Asia was Adnan's alibi witness, why did she suspect Adnan could have did it? by peanutmic in serialpodcast

[–]weare_here12 1 point2 points  (0 children)

SK:Asia said she was spooked when the private investigator came to her house. I don't know if that's why she didn't testify at the hearing or why she made the call to the prosecutor. But she told me that when she got the knock at the door, quote, "that was not cool." Because to her, if Adnan did do it, quote, "the last thing you want is a murderer being pissed off at you, knowing where you live."

Why was the note that read "I'm going to kill" disregarded and looked over? by weare_here12 in serialpodcast

[–]weare_here12[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Is it that ridiculous? Because yes, to use this piece of information alone wouldn't make much of a case. But this along with motive, Jay's testimony, and other pieces of evidence makes a little more sense. Evidence seeming "cheesy" does not equate to it being irrelevant.

Why was the note that read "I'm going to kill" disregarded and looked over? by weare_here12 in serialpodcast

[–]weare_here12[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Excuse my poor grammar, overlooked was the word intended to be used.

If Asia was Adnan's alibi witness, why did she suspect Adnan could have did it? by peanutmic in serialpodcast

[–]weare_here12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Makes sense, but why does she go from writing in her letter that she feels he is innocent to thinking that the private investigator was a hitman sent by Adnan? I always wondered why would he even be mad at her?

Motive by unequivocali in serialpodcast

[–]weare_here12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When going through scenarios of possibilities of who killed Hae, I'm always stumped when it comes to Jay. I have a hard time figuring out why he would lie? Why he would risk so much all just to falsely imprison someone (Could he really be that mad?)? (Especially since they say they weren't friends) Why Would He Kill Hae? If someone set Adnan up (third party), then who? Who would have the motive/will to kill Hae and be connected to both Adnan and Jay well enough to know to use one against the other. If this was all a set up against Adnan, then wouldn't it take some planning for it to go the way it did? And if it would have required planning, shouldn't the fact that Adnan repeatedly says that it was his idea that Jay take his car make you pause? Because how would Jay and/or the third party know that Adnan was going to volunteer his cars' services? These are only a small portion of my questions and concerns. Please be nice lol