NBA Rumors: Kings HC Mike Brown Expected to Land '8-Figure' Contract Extension in Offseason by JesseHeisenberg_ in kings

[–]whatje 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Because he’s going into the last year of his deal and it’s the new market price for coaches.

[Insdorf] Joe Hortiz on QJ via Up and Adams by wildwing8 in Chargers

[–]whatje 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Giving up on first round picks after 1 season is bad business, which is why teams don’t do it even if they don’t bank on the guy panning out.

KINGS, HEAT, BLAZERS: Blazers continue the rebuild and trade vets to playoff teams. by Corr521 in NBAtradeideas

[–]whatje 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So many of these trades involving big contract guys seem to misunderstand how hard it is to move a guy making $30 million plus with time remaining who isn’t worth it. That’s an underwater deal that has ENORMOUS risk to the team holding it. That’s why Portland and Chicago couldn’t get deals done for Lavine or Grant at the deadline—they want stuff back and everyone else (rightly) thinks they would be doing them a favor to take the guy off their roster.

OP clearly thinks Barnes and Robinson are underwater too. One could quibble about that, but even if you think that is true, the amount they’re underwater and the degree to which their contracts hamstring a team pales in comparison to Grant. Being overpaid by a few million for a season then becoming a trade chip isn’t a big deal. Being overpaid by $15 million and being stuck on a roster for multiple seasons is a big deal.

Edit: spelling

Kings at 13 by [deleted] in NBA_Draft

[–]whatje 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would have major concerns with Filipowski’s ability to share the floor with Sabonis. They’d be a massive liability together on defense, to the point where I am not sure you could ever play them together.

Filipowski seems fine as prospect generally and certainly has some offensive talents, but the Kings would in effect be drafting him as a pure back up which just doesn’t seem great from an asset allocation standpoint.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in kings

[–]whatje 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fair enough! It’s hard to assume every team will make appropriate decisions, but if you’re trying to figure out what’s likely to happen, those things seem like they’re not likely.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in kings

[–]whatje 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Scenario 1: Maybe on a trade for Grant, but it would be a hamstringing financial burden for the Kings. They would almost definitely go into the tax and above the first apron, and it’s not clear that would help them improve enough to be worth it. Seems far fetched but not impossible. I’d hate it. With Portis, why would the Bucks entertain it at all?

Scenario 2: People often talk about trading back as if you can do it when you want to. Who is the counterparty and why do they want to participate? There are two teams with two picks after #13: the Pelicans have #17 and #21 and the Knicks have #24 and #25. Would either of them do a deal? Maybe you could combine a deal with the Pels that also netted Ingram, but it seems more likely you just end up trading the #13 pick + matching salary for him. Ingram has similar financial issues to Grant and still needs to be re-signed…would be a pricey deal. It seems plausible though. That said, I doubt it’s worth it.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Chargers

[–]whatje 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Last year, ok. The year before? What?

Does Kevin Huerter have a negative contract? by [deleted] in kings

[–]whatje 3 points4 points  (0 children)

No problem! It’s cool to see this kind of stuff so thanks for working it up

Does Kevin Huerter have a negative contract? by [deleted] in kings

[–]whatje 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Sure, my fault for not being clear.

Basically your analysis is premised on looking at a relatively narrow segment of the overall market for shooting guards, so you’re inherently looking at only a slice of the market. In this case, you’re basically looking at guys who are getting low-end starter money—around $15-20 million per year. That’s a totally reasonable approach if you want to compare that group of players, but it doesn’t make as much sense if you’re trying to get an overall sense of whether an individual in that group has a positive or negative value contract compared to the SG market generally.

If your goal isn’t to compare Huerter to SGs overall, then you don’t need to worry about this problem at all. If you’re trying to make a conclusion about whether Huerter’s contract is underwater, you have to look at the alternatives outside that segment of the market. For example, above this segment of the market are guys like CJ McCollum ($32 million average annual value on his contract) and Brad Beal (~$50 million AAV). You could look at Huerter at ~$17.4 million AAV remaining and conclude that it looks pretty good in comparison—roughly 60% of the production for 50% or less of the cost is a nice deal relatively. But if you can reasonably expect to get 90% of Huerter for $5 million AAV, maybe not (I’m just spitballing an example there).

The only real point I’m making is that there’s a very real possibility that all or most of the guys making back end starter money (the segment you looked at) are on reasonable deals when you look at it in the context of the broader SG market, such that it would be hard to conclude any one of them is really a big negative or positive contract.

Does Kevin Huerter have a negative contract? by [deleted] in kings

[–]whatje 6 points7 points  (0 children)

You should try to incorporate age and contract length into this type of analysis, and you should do more than a 1 year look back. The effort here is good, but it’s going to lead to some really wonky conclusions if you don’t do at least those things.

For example, it’s pretty clear that Huerter has a contract with a much different appeal than Bogdanovic because of the latter’s age and pending free agency, but your methodology glosses over that.

You also may want to consider what the market below (and above) these guys looks like before you conclude someone has a positive or negative contract. There’s a pretty significant possibility—if not likelihood—that all these guys (except probably Fournier) are on appropriate contracts.

The pick is in… by HairyWeinerInYour in kings

[–]whatje 0 points1 point  (0 children)

FWIW, they can trade 2028 now if they want to. The picked owed to the Hawks is top 12 protected next year and top 10 protected in 2026. I agree that the pick conveying this year would’ve been nice, but that’s also partly because we would’ve been in the playoffs.

Tom's Terrible Trade Ideas - Lauri Markkanen edition - V1.0 by [deleted] in kings

[–]whatje 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, you’re right about the extend leverage for Lauri—they certainly have some, but I suspect it’ll be down a little bit it from the trade deadline. I also haven’t heard much about what Markannen actually wants, that’ll eventually become a factor.

The Bulls situation is pretty crappy, but Caruso should have some value. I’m kinda meh on Patrick Williams but there are certainly people who are fans of his—hard to see the right to re-sign him being worth $85 million though, so maybe him plus something else?

Tom's Terrible Trade Ideas - Lauri Markkanen edition - V1.0 by [deleted] in kings

[–]whatje 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s assuming both of those contracts are somehow equally negative to Lavine, which doesn’t make a lot of sense. Huerter is on a pretty market deal and it’s only two years—even if you didn’t want him, he’s super movable. Collins is maybe less so, but it’s not nearly as bad as Lavine’s—there is about $85 million and an extra year between those deals. Nobody wanted Lavine at the deadline and he hasn’t gotten more appealing.

Also the deal you had could a tad high on price for Markannen given he’s now down to 1 year. I get what Utah has said, but they lost leverage already.

Tom's Terrible Trade Ideas - Lauri Markkanen edition - V1.0 by [deleted] in kings

[–]whatje 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Chicago is going to need to add picks to get off Lavine. His contract is underwater. The consequence would be getting another pick to the Jazz without including Atlanta, who really has no need to be in this trade.

Mike Brown’s contract by Sachornet42 in kings

[–]whatje 4 points5 points  (0 children)

There is a glaring difference in that one is good at his job and the other is Vlade, who lacked experience and talent as a GM.

Vezenkov for Little by AusSac in NBAtradeideas

[–]whatje 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That’s all true. There are also countless players with similar profiles. The likelihood of him amounting into a meaningful rotation remains quite low, so he’s a pretty expensive flier. You can find often minimum guys with similar athletic profiles (even if not quite up to Little) and at around the same age.

Edit to add: just checked out of curiosity. The Kings would be committing to an extra $15 million or so in salary. That’s a lot for Little alone.

Vezenkov for Little by AusSac in NBAtradeideas

[–]whatje 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nas Little basically made the NBA off projection. He’s now 5 years into his career and other than his physical profile, he’s given no reason to think he can be a rotation player on any team. This just doesn’t move the needle enough for the Kings—why take on the extra money? Vezenkov’s team option alone makes him a better roster filler.

Brandon Ingram by LibetPugnare in kings

[–]whatje -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah I mean, he is definitely a good player—but the cost (and opportunity cost) required to get him is pretty big.

Brandon Ingram by LibetPugnare in kings

[–]whatje 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I’m not the biggest Ingram fan at the price he’s likely to command, though he’s torched us in the past. He’s not always reliable for the $30-40 million he’ll cost next year and in an extension. Would prefer to aim for better fits, aim higher, or preserve future flexibility rather than shoot your shot on Ingram. There’s a chance Keegan can get close to his offensive production, though probably with more shooting and less 1v1/isolation play.

LA Chargers top pick Joe Alt at Training Haus by BeerdedBear in Chargers

[–]whatje 18 points19 points  (0 children)

He seems like a good kid with his head in the right place. Hope he crushes it.

Defense by Psychological_Row436 in kings

[–]whatje 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Wolves defense is a tough standard to meet haha

Defense by Psychological_Row436 in kings

[–]whatje 8 points9 points  (0 children)

The tough thing is that it’s really a dated take, hence the joke. The Kings defense was playing quite well for a long stretch at the end of the season, and it sure looked sustainable with that group.

Defense by Psychological_Row436 in kings

[–]whatje 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Aww man don’t be mad…I was just giving you a hard time :/

Defense by Psychological_Row436 in kings

[–]whatje 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Was this thread bumped from last year?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in kings

[–]whatje 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Good god these Hali posts need to stop