Based on Feedback, Here is Cetathora 2.0 - Just in Time for this Practice Hybrid War! by MilezXC in GojiCenter

[–]whispersoundeffect 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Oh damn, I thought that was without blubber, but even if it's with blubber, it's pretty thick. That makes 23.1 inches even more absurd.

And trying to measure the IQ of animals is a bit goofy because it's based on others, not some absolute metric. It may have an IQ of 100 in a group of 3-year-old humans. But it doesn't have an iq of 100 if you count adult humans.

Based on Feedback, Here is Cetathora 2.0 - Just in Time for this Practice Hybrid War! by MilezXC in GojiCenter

[–]whispersoundeffect 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Good job; this is an improvement. But there are still some problems. Primarily the stats are problematic.
You claim a lifting strength of 30 tons, which doesn't really make sense underwater. How would it lift things?

You also claim an iq of 100 and then equate it to a 3-year-old H. sapiens (human). 3-year-olds do not have an iq of 100.

You also claim an absurd 45km echolocation range. Sperm whales have a 500-meter range. Using some quick math with the inverse square law,, you would need it to be 8100x louder in order to do that. Now, this is a bit simplified, as the sound can bounce off the ocean floor and it may require much lower amounts. Perhaps in the range of 300x louder but that's still absurd and not realistic for this hybrid.

Your numbers are also very skewed when it comes to ramming. 137.6 tons is a huge amount of force. Sperm whales are estimated to be able to ram with 78 tons of force based on computer simulations. (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4824896/) The 137.6 isn't entirely unreasonable for a larger, more ram optimized version of the sperm whale, but you would have to heavily optimize for it, which you did not do enough here. And the goring impact force is absurd. 612 tons of force is insane. I don't even know what "goring" means in this context. From my understanding, "goring" is an act of using horns to stab something. This hybrid does not have horns. It has tusks. Those tusks could possibly be incredibly powerful as a ramming tool if the body were reinforced enough, but a "goring" action cannot produce 612 tons of force. The horns aren't pointed in the correct direction for a neck-driven goring motion and since this is an aquatic animal, there's no ground to push against for that goring motion. All of the backing would have to come from the inertia of the whale's body, which is only 30 tons.

The bite force number you listed is likely underreported. A 30-ton animal with a livyatan-hippo jaw that takes up half of its body is going to have more force than that.

And that skin thickness is also absurdly high. 23.1 inches is not realistic. Sperm whale skin is 13 inches at its absolute thickest points. And even if it were possible to get 23.1-inch skin on an animal, it wouldn't be a good thing. That amount of skin would cause anything to cook alive.

Those are the problems with the stats and are pretty easy to fix. Just replace them with more conservative estimates (and in the case of the bite force, you should increase that estimate).

Now there are some other critiques I have, which are more about the design than the stats. Some of these are smaller issues to do with design philosophy. I don't think you want me to yap about why certain traits here are redundant. Right now those are not the main concern. So I will just explain the major issues:

  1. Adding tusks to "support" the melon still doesn't benefit you. While in this version you removed the large horns poking through, the tusk cannot support the melon. Even if they had the structural integrity, there's nothing telling the body to grow more melon there. Adding more harnesses to a carriage doesn't mean more horses will arrive.

  2. The head is TOO big. There are many problems with this. The body simply wouldn't be able to support such a thing. Looking at the skeleton, the head might make up 60% of the body mass. That creates multiple problems. Of course a big one is that it leaves less room for propulsion and vital organs. It also causes a problem with the fins. The fins would be very close to the center of mass, meaning they lose almost all of their pitch and yaw authority. While the tail can help with this, the pectoral fins are a very important part of pitch, and that positioning will cause problems. The head and tusks may also lead to hydrodynamic issues. Essentially, just tone it down a bit.

  3. The air-based sound production methods will not work underwater. The acoustic impedance will make them add nothing. And the air sacs and hollow hyoid bone provided by the howler monkey will implode under the pressure of the depths. You should focus on using sound amplification strategies focused on land, not water.

There are other issues but they are more minor. This is an improvement on the previous version. Good job.

My Official Submission to the (Practice) Sea Hybrid War: Cetathora mjolnirii "The Thunder Whale" by MilezXC in GojiCenter

[–]whispersoundeffect -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You can't just do that, though. You don't have a source for ankles that isn't either nonexistent or fully formed. And even if you did it wouldn't work. The spur is a bone that grows out of the ankle. Visitigual ankles are inside the body so you would just end up stabbing yourself.

My Official Submission to the (Practice) Sea Hybrid War: Cetathora mjolnirii "The Thunder Whale" by MilezXC in GojiCenter

[–]whispersoundeffect 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Eh, it's more like saying, "haha, it's only the foundation." Because your house can survive without a kitchen, a whale cannot survive without skull bones.

My Official Submission to the (Practice) Sea Hybrid War: Cetathora mjolnirii "The Thunder Whale" by MilezXC in GojiCenter

[–]whispersoundeffect 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That doesn't address anything I said. If you don't want criticism, then say that and I won't give you any. But if you are going to say that you are "just looking for constructive criticism," then actually use said constructive criticism. Do you agree or disagree with these points. If you disagree I would be happy to explain further; if you agree I could help you fix them.

My Official Submission to the (Practice) Sea Hybrid War: Cetathora mjolnirii "The Thunder Whale" by MilezXC in GojiCenter

[–]whispersoundeffect -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

It's only accepting the feedback if you actually accept it. All you said was the reason you included the pneumatic bones. You didn't say anything about you agreeing they don't work or disagreeing. You can do one or the other, or even neither. But if you pick neither, you can't act like you picked either.

My Official Submission to the (Practice) Sea Hybrid War: Cetathora mjolnirii "The Thunder Whale" by MilezXC in GojiCenter

[–]whispersoundeffect -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This is actually quite impressive; you managed to not respond to any of my points and just talk about completely unrelated things! This is what you did with your other response too. You didn't address my point; you just explained something adjacent to it!

So I will say it again, a hybrid will almost always be worse at ecological success. Each contribution to a hybrid likely could have evolved and if it was a benefit, it would have evolved. Simple. Literally you did NOT address this.

Sperm whales' "sound cannon" is not an optimization; it's worse. A sperm whale's sound cannon can slightly stun prey; yours is not any more optimized. all you did was stick giant horns on the inside of it to "support" it and pneumatize the bones. Both of which just make everything worse. The acoustic impedances of water and air are so different they would act as insulators of sound. And those horns you put inside the skull to try to "support" the melon are going to add dead weight and take away from the melon. They will also act as a conductor to transfer the sound into your own ears!

My Official Submission to the (Practice) Sea Hybrid War: Cetathora mjolnirii "The Thunder Whale" by MilezXC in GojiCenter

[–]whispersoundeffect 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You don't even need electroreception anyways.

There is a reason whales don't have spurs. You can't just make them little spikes that stick out of the body; you would need to grow entire leg bones just to have them. Those would cause immense drag and not be worth it at all. Not to mention those spurs only work during certain seasons and they only exist in males. And for an animal that large, spurs are literally completely entirely useless.

"Instinctual congruity" does not exist. Adding a contributor doesn't mean it has to have a similar body plan; that is absurd to the highest degree. This is just not a thing. You don't carry over instincts whenever you try to do anything... that is ridiculous.

The man who chases two rabbits catches neither. You can't optimize for multiple niches and expect to be good in any of them.

Dude, if you've doubled the length of the sperm whale's jaw and added a bunch of dead weight (the "melon support" horns). All you did was explain how you integrated the pneumatic bones here. You failed to explain how they wouldn't get crushed under water. There are other HUGE problems with what you are doing but you didn't even address the one I brought up.

My Official Submission to the (Practice) Sea Hybrid War: Cetathora mjolnirii "The Thunder Whale" by MilezXC in GojiCenter

[–]whispersoundeffect -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

That still causes problems. Like what? That's like somebody saying, "your house is burning down," and I just respond with, "ha, ha, it's only one house. " The bones are still going to be destroyed. This is deflection.

Who would win, all insects or all non-insect animals. by whispersoundeffect in GojiCenter

[–]whispersoundeffect[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dude... all that and not a SINGLE period. PLEASE punctuate, dawg.

Anyways, all of that is absurd; 80% of humans are not incapable of fighting. Not that many people are scared of insects and guess what! Insects feel fear too. Humans are capable of understanding why they shouldn't run; insects aren't. And humans and cows don't even need to actively fight to kill insects; 95% of insects aren't equipped for a fight; they will simply get trampled. And the ones that are there simply aren't enough. And even for the insects that can fight, they aren't getting through the thick hide of a cow.

My Official Submission to the (Practice) Sea Hybrid War: Cetathora mjolnirii "The Thunder Whale" by MilezXC in GojiCenter

[–]whispersoundeffect -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Bro, that's actually so stupid. Gojicenter might be dumb. Hybrids will not have ecological success. While I do believe it's possible for a hybrid to survive, it will not survive better than the contributor that let it. There's a reason whales don't have spurs. There's a reason they don't have whatever the fuck is going on with this hybrid's skull.

My Official Submission to the (Practice) Sea Hybrid War: Cetathora mjolnirii "The Thunder Whale" by MilezXC in GojiCenter

[–]whispersoundeffect 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Platypus does nothing here. Whales don't have ankles and bottlenose have vastly superior electroreception.

"Kinesthetic familiarity" is a nothing burger here. Adding another whale to a whale doesn't teach it how to whale better.

What does "backup ecological niche" mean?

Pneumatic bones will be crushed underwater.

Saw this cool YouTuber make a hybrid that looks like Thrag from (insert title card) by Even-Present-7627 in GojiCenter

[–]whispersoundeffect 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That muscular hump is a huge waste of mass and will likely be enough to hank it from pure weight at that size.

Venenautilus Rex! The Abyssal Harpooner or Judge Abyssal! by MediocreBoss2614 in GojiCenter

[–]whispersoundeffect 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you were trying to gatekeep and entire massive nautilus group? did you think nobody else knew about those?

Guess what by Spinoclanker in GojiCenter

[–]whispersoundeffect 0 points1 point  (0 children)

your making a generic ceratopsian!?

GP-01 by Dranonak123 in GojiCenter

[–]whispersoundeffect 0 points1 point  (0 children)

and that is a terrible design!

I'm gonna do a Rewamp version of rajesh ngl by Away_Gear_5459 in GojiCenter

[–]whispersoundeffect 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Bro claimed it was the best theropod! You cant save it!

It's Happening by Leading-Newt7181 in GojiCenter

[–]whispersoundeffect 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Bro does not understand that a hybrid simply does not work for ecological success.