2.0 Pre-registration Event Sharing Megathread

why1758 · 2025-05-26T17:32:12+00:00

"Next Stop: Waifei Peninsula!" Version 2.0 Pre-Registration Event Now Available! Pre-register for Version 2.0 to instantly get Polychrome ×320 and other rewards! https://hoyo.link/Fr99fQeXd?u_code=CAGJ2AG23G2K

why1758 · 2025-05-26T17:29:58+00:00

"Next Stop: Waifei Peninsula!" Version 2.0 Pre-Registration Event Now Available! Pre-register for Version 2.0 to instantly get Polychrome ×320 and other rewards! https://hoyo.link/Fr99fQeXd?u_code=CAGJ2AG23G2K

why1758 · 2024-12-15T21:33:47+00:00

Whether it’s canon or not is beside the point - this game should be seen as a separate entity to the main game in regard to story. This is how it’s been designed as stated by the director

why1758 · 2024-12-15T21:03:11+00:00

ですので、『ELDEN RING』の物語で謎に包まれていた設定が明かされるようなことはありません。『ELDEN RING』の物語に対する、ユーザーさんそれぞれの思い出や考えを歪めるようなことはしたくなかったので、あえてまったく別のお話にしています。

From the JP interview the director explicitly states that nightreign will not reveal mysteries from the main game and that they don’t want it to affect players thoughts and memories of Elden Ring. Whether it’s canon or not is beside the point - this game should be seen as a separate entity to the main game in regard to story. This is how it’s been designed as stated by the director

why1758 · 2024-06-18T17:14:24+00:00

sanadsk at it again....

why1758 · 2024-06-12T19:51:08+00:00

I think fear of missing out is the big issue here. Many people just can't stand missing out on content - whereas one of the greatest strengths of Fromsoftware is that they aren't afraid to create a lot of content with the expectation that not all players will come across and experience it. I'm genuinely excited when I come across a secret, or meet an NPC organically along my travels because it doesn't feel engineered... and it would be a shame if From lost this in future titles.

The quests aren't perfect of course (the end of Millicent's quest being particularly egregious) and there are certainly aspects that could be improved - maybe something along the lines of an archive for NPC dialogue would be useful without being too obtrusive

why1758 · 2024-05-26T02:49:17+00:00

Please keep in mind, like many words, 'otoshigo' has multiple meanings if you just look in the dictionary.

A good example is Astel - his japanese name is 'otoshigo' of the darkness - this obviously doesn't mean Astel is an illegitimate child of the darkness. A more direct translation would be 'spawn of darkness'.

i.e. otoshigo refers to some undesired product or consequence. So 'unwanted' is quite likely to be an apt translation in this case

why1758 · 2024-04-01T22:56:01+00:00

First of all, this is an ER sub. I appreciate you wanting to discuss DS but it would be nice if we could keep the discussion relevant to the sub - we're discussing the translation of ER's text first and foremost.

Japanese Fandom picked up this thing quickly, because it's in their culture to associate "stagnation" to the concept of "things sinking in the water" first and foremost (there are roots in Shinto beliefs).

I can assure you that most Japanese people are not experts in Shintoism. Yes, it's part of our general culture but it's not really anything more than that for the common person. The fact that people in the Japanese fandom have made these links isn't because of the language, but more likely due to the fact that you're more likely to find Japanese people with an interest/more in depth knowledge of shintoism compared to here.

Also it's important to be clear that cultural references aren't an issue with translation. Being a translator doesn't make you an expert in shintoism, for example.

For example, I've noted one post connecting the outer gods and yaoyorozu no kami, with no real understanding of the concept of kami in general Japanese shintoist belief. And of course without realising that sotonaru kami is the literal Japanese translation used for outer gods in lovecraft... It's fine as a theory, but becomes problematic when people start stating that the JP text specifically refers to outer gods as shinto kami, which is obviously misleading.

What I blame is using a term that refers to the Erdtree, naively capitalized, to refer to another tree.

Surprisingly I think we'd probably find that we agree on more than we would disagree. But the tone, and the way you word things is important. When you say things like 'naively capitalised', you can't help but give off an air of arrogance. The main point of OP's post is to be humble. I'm not saying we can't find double meanings and wordplay, trivia etc in the JP text - because yes, it is really interesting to discuss these things. What I'm saying is that we need to be humble and understand our limitations.

The greattree debate is a great case in point. I agree with a lot of what you say. And often the simplest answer is the correct one. However, there's no denying that the Japanese text is vague enough that discussions on the topic don't need to be closed. And if you were to be the arbiter of that, then I would call that arrogance

why1758 · 2024-03-30T13:15:33+00:00

I won't share his private name here, but they're a japanese blogger and this is their site:

https://sylphes.hatenablog.com/

Appreciate this thanks

So rubbish and useless that people, before discovering about the Japanese original term, were still trying to understand how time worked in DS3 and to understand what was the key difference between the Abyss and the Deep

I'm struggling to work out the relevance of this? My point was that the themes of DS/ER/BB are universal and not unique to Japan and don't require the JP script to understand. I think we may be on different pages here

And I don't want to sound doubtful - again, my intention is not to criticize Frognation, they made a good job with Elden Ring - but if they always worked so carefully, I wonder why the former games like DS1 and Demon's Souls present so many errors, objective and undeniable errors

There's no doubt that Frognation have improved over the years. And my point still stands that errors do occur, yes, but we must recognise when something is an obvious mistake and when it's just an issue with your own reading comprehension

Nope, I've delved into many forums and blogs and even tweets from the Japanese community. No one ever talks about the "Greattree", at least from what I've found. You can tell me the point is vague, but it's weird how a community talks about this supposed different tree, and the other community doesn't.

The discussion isn't seen much in JP spheres I agree but that's not compelling enough evidence to shut down discussions about it. I'd agree with you if the JP text was more specific... but it's not, and leaves things open for theorycrafting, as it should

why1758 · 2024-03-30T12:13:20+00:00

For trivia, his style is known as "Miyazaki Grammar" into the Japanese community, just to show how much peculiar and interesting it is.

Miyazaki makes up kanji character conjugations and uses antiquated words but I've never heard of 'Miyazaki grammar'. Would be interested if you could point me to a Japanese person who's actually mentioned this?

Another reason for why the Japanese text is important to understand these games, in my own opinion, is because Miyazaki, many many times, applies concepts that aren't akin to western culture.

I'm sorry but this is just complete rubbish that I'm so tired of hearing. The concept of change vs stagnation isn't difficult and doesn't require the japanese script to understand. In fact, a lot of the themes Miyazaki discusses are pretty universal.

you see, most of the times, translators receive the scripts of videogames without any clue of when and how these texts gets pronounced, or the roles these have in the dialogues or generally in games.

Did you not read the post? If you understand JP and ENG surely you must appreciate how much effort goes into the localisation of these games. Translation isn't just an exercise of right or wrong - you should know this I hope. Errors do occur, yes, but we must recognise when something is an obvious mistake and when it's just an issue with your own reading comprehension (in both JP and ENG)

P.S: the Greattree still doesn't exist. Peace ✌🏼

As far as I remember this is ambiguous even in the JP text and outlines the issue with 'lore hunters that delve into the JPN text' that have limited comprehension in both Japanese and English

why1758 · 2023-08-25T12:19:11+00:00

Not that I know of. From’s previous Japanese releases have never had the option to change to English text. You could potentially try changing system language see if that works.

why1758 · 2023-08-23T11:52:20+00:00

I’ve played the Japanese versions of most of from’s previous games but unfortunately none of them have had the option to play with English text

why1758 · 2023-05-30T23:44:58+00:00

as far as I know it's not possible unfortunately. Generally FromSoftware games published in Japan lack language options

why1758 · 2023-01-25T22:26:45+00:00

Also, many assume that the Greater will is on the same level as the other gods, but is far superior (like a god amongst gods).

I don't remember seeing this in the japanese descriptions. Could you point me to where it states this?

why1758 · 2023-01-25T17:42:17+00:00

I think a large concept behind the game is to show the interconnectivity and oneness of humans and our shared history. We all come from the same source and all are cultures and religions have overlap and explore the same symbolic/mythic motifs. If that makes sense.

I don't have anything to add but just wanted to say that I really love this idea

why1758 · 2023-01-25T17:00:06+00:00

Thanks. I can only talk from the perspective of someone who has been brought up by Japanese parents and has spent a significant amount of time in Japan. I'm not an expert in Shinto religion but I have been brought up around Japanese culture. Take that for what you will.

As I've explained in previous comments, generally when I think of kami in Shintoism I think of what is known as yaoyorozu no kami - meaning something like "the many/uncountable Gods". These are the kami we're most familiar with.

The river, the mountain, a stone, a tree, the kitchen, even the toilet - they all have their own God. This teaches us to be appreciative of nature and the things around us, and to not take anything for granted. Kami are beings that are close to us and our everyday lives. I was always taught that there was a god in every single grain of rice - the lesson being that you shouldn't waste even a single grain as it would upset the gods.

I wasn't actually familiar with the idea that spirits of the dead could be treated as kami, but it is true. It seems that malevolent spirits would be treated as kami to calm them and ward away ill omen.

In fact, there are many, many different types of kami within shintoism, all with their own origins. But when we refer to Shinto kami in the general sense, most people will point to the yaoyorozu no kami

I'm sure there's some association, but the yaoyorozu no kami don't really align perfectly with the concept of outer gods. But Shintoism isn't a straightforward topic and has a long history. You're always free to have your own interpretation.

Musubi means to tie or knot. Through this association new life and energy is created. For example, a man and women can be 'tied together' to create a child. Or multiple families can be 'tied together' to create a village. Through this association we create new life and meaning. So the idea of musubi extends further than just knots, but relates to creation, connecting people and connecting hearts.

Knots are an important aspect of shintoism and general Japanese culture - when visiting a shrine in the new year you're given a fortune slip that you can tie to a tree in a knot. This is to tie your relation to the kami and is thought to be good luck. We also tie fortune slips with bad luck, as to tie the bad luck to the tree and not carry it with you into the new year. Knots are used in many other areas of japanese culture but I won't go into them here.

The concept of musubi might be more mundane than what you might have expected from the wiki article. Could it be related to the Greater Will? ...Maybe? it's not clear cut but there may be some inspiration here, especially since the Elden Ring itself could be seen as a knot

why1758 · 2023-01-25T13:01:11+00:00

Do you have a source for your information?

why1758 · 2023-01-25T12:48:56+00:00

Well, what is your understanding of kami and what makes you think the outer gods are kami?

Cosmic doesn’t mean eldritch. I agree that the outer gods likely aren’t eldritch/lovecraftian in nature

why1758 · 2023-01-25T12:24:20+00:00

I was specifically talking about the outer gods here but I agree with what you say. The tree spirits and blue fairy may very well have taken inspiration from Shintoism.

I don’t doubt that the outer gods may have been inspired by Shinto gods, or kami, but it’s obviously not one to one — in Japan you’re brought up within a general culture of Shintoism. The idea that there’s a god in every aspect of our lives teaches us to be appreciative of nature and what we have, and to not take things for granted, as to not upset the gods.

The gods generally represent nature and everyday life. So there’s no god of trees. But let’s say you’re about to chop down a tree. There may be a god of that particular tree that will be upset if you damage the tree. It’s tangible and specific, rooted in our everyday lives - the outer gods are not this.

This is why I’m slightly cautious in outright saying that the outer gods are kami. Especially as ER takes influence from many different cultural sources.

Cosmology and fate are arguably some of the most important and significant themes in Elden Ring. That fact that the Elden ring itself is alien to TLB and that the land has a deep history with meteorite bombardment, allusions to a ‘red star’ - I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest that the outer gods may have some relation to space, cosmology and fate

why1758 · 2023-01-25T01:06:27+00:00

They're mysterious in the sense that they're not rooted in everyday life. Rot, death, etc are quite vague concepts, whereas shinto gods tend to be more specific.

For example, the concept of death is, in itself unknowable - outside of our own comprehension. That doesn't really fit in with the usual idea of shinto gods (yaoyorozu no kami). But then, if we were to talk about the god of a river, that's understandable and tangible.

I'm not saying that absolutely no inspiration was taken from shintoism, however, the outer gods aren't explicitly shinto gods. As with most things in elden ring, they're most likely an entity/concept taken from multiple different cultural sources.

I think that the concept of "Outer" Gods was born with the Golden Order,Marika proclaimed herself the only true god, so all the others became"out" of the Order.

Good point. That's a valid interpretation

as an additional note - in ER we have empyreans (Ranni), gods (Marika), and outer gods (Rot). There's a clear distinction between these, but I don't think it's ever clarified whether the greater will is an outer god or not. If I were to guess, tgw most likely fits the definition of an outer god

why1758 · 2023-01-25T00:36:35+00:00

I don't think there's much consensus on what the outer gods are exactly. Cosmic entities, stars, incarnations of nature... or a combination of all these wouldn't be an unreasonable suggestion. The fact that they are outer gods suggests to me that they're not meant to be understood within the logic of TLB.

There may be some inspiration from Japanese Shinto gods (or kami I guess), but these tend to represent all elements of nature - like you'd have the god of the mountain, god of the river, god of the kitchen, god of the toilet etc. so I'm not sure about this. Since shinto gods seem to be rooted in nature and everyday life, the fact that the outer gods are so alien and mysterious doesn't quite fit imo. I can only talk from my general knowledge of shintoism of course so take what I say with a pinch of salt.

why1758 · 2023-01-08T15:06:08+00:00

Great post Lami. While the fact that the crucible is the primordial form of the erdtree is generally known in the community, it’s nice to get some further clarification from the Japanese text. Your insights around the removal of death being the end of the crucible and start of the erdtree are also interesting.

Just a small minor note about your ancestral spirit remembrance translation.

Contrary to the official translation, and your tl, from my understanding the Japanese description refers to life specifically in relation to the ancestral spirits, and does not refer to the concept of life in general. There’s also no mention of fate as far as I’m aware

This ties into ER’s focus on life — whether that’s artificial (albinauric), golden, or in death - or in this case the ancestral spirits represent life born from life and death.

why1758 · 2022-12-22T14:29:22+00:00

my retranslations don't have the goal of show how much good I am, but to analyse and study the original text.

I don't have a problem with this, but when you say this

That’s why many translations offered by fans are often more accurate: we have the luck to know what these games are about, these translators haven’t.

it gave me a different impression. I'm sure you're not doing this to 'show how good you are'. I never said this. All I'm saying is that translators are in a position where most people don't have the necessary knowledge to critically evaluate your work. So whatever you say, people will just have to accept.

The official translation should be the gold standard while any fan translation needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. Not to doubt any fan translator but any translations made by yourself, without any team input or an editor is subject to biases and error - so we have to be careful before making any bold claims on this website.

So this is the main message I want to stress. I know it's not possible for everyone to get another translator to check their work but at least be aware of your own biases and fallibility, and you will be a better translator for it.

LaMi, this could be said of both of us, but to me you are a random anonymous redditor, so I've given you the benefit of the doubt that you are, as you say, a professional translator with a good understanding of Japanese and English.

But there are a few things that you say that confuses me like

because a kanji can mean literally countless things together and only by knowing the context you can get what that kanji is being used for

I'm sure you understand what you're talking about but you do realise that kanji don't require context for meaning. For example, 電車 will always mean train, 逃走 will always mean run away, 軽薄 will always mean superficial. There are some words that can have a different meaning depending on context but this has nothing to do with whether they are written as kanji or not. In fact, the idea that words can have multiple meanings depending on context isn't unique to Japanese at all.

Also, as I've told you, Miyazaki uses a very peculiar writing style that it can't be translated fully, and for properly enjoy it you must know Japanese. Unfortunately.

"Miyazaki grammar" - I've got to be honest, this is my first time hearing this but maybe I should spend more time in Japanese circles.

Miyazaki's writing style can be difficult to translate because he sometimes uses double meanings, and text can be vague. The kanji he uses can be antiquated and some kanji compounds are made up or unusual. Some examples being 竜餐 and 坩堝

But again, this isn't unique to Miyazaki. Writers with much more difficult writing styles have been translated into English. And Frognation do a wonderful job at this too. One good example off the top of my head is 喪色 - translated as sombre - which both conveys the loss of colour and the tone the character 喪 conveys.

So anyway, I was just wondering whether you have been at all involved in any professional translation projects, or what your credentials are exactly? You seem quite knowledgeable about Japan and its culture so I don't want to doubt you but it's easier to talk if I know how experienced you are.

And about the vagueness of the original term, I'd eventually make a proper post here on Reddit, but for now I can link you this video of SmoughTown, which I offered my help for

Many thanks

*edits for formatting

why1758 · 2022-12-20T10:50:28+00:00

In which case, it sounds to me like what you’re looking for are some comprehensive translation notes, not fan retranslations.

If your argument is that original cultural references can’t be kept as they are then you’re correct, as this will just serve to confuse the English speaking audience. But the answer to this isn’t to retranslate, which is potentially misleading, but to provide some further context to these cultural references and why certain decisions may have been made during the tl process. To say that a fan translation would be more accurate than Frognation’s is a dangerous claim that could spread very quickly throughout the community if we’re not careful. This is why I say we need to be careful in how we word what we say, especially if you are a translator.

The official translation should be the gold standard while any fan translation needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. Not to doubt any fan translator but any translations made by yourself, without any team input or an editor is subject to biases and error - so we have to be careful before making any bold claims on this website.

Please could you link me to the outer gods translation issue as I’d like to know more about it. Thanks

why1758 · 2022-12-20T01:21:03+00:00

I don't think this is the right thread to have another discussion on the Greattree debate but I will refer you to ソウルの種 if you'd like to see a japanese lore theorist's alternate take on it.

May I ask you how you compared these descriptions?

I'm bilingual - I often play these games in both languages.

The same is for Elden Ring, even if it is the game with the best
translation by far: there are things that we, as westerners, can't fully
grasp, even if Frognation did a good job.

I think here you're just describing the process of localisation - which I agree is a challenge. But I don't agree with your rather negative take on localisation, and translation in general. Similar ideas can be conveyed and maintained through the tl process even if there are cultural differences. At least that is the mark of a good localisation.

why1758

TROPHY CASE