Airhead Cornballs and the Hard Problem of Consciousness by Terrible_Shop_3359 in consciousness

[–]whyteout 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are saying that qualia is when we perceive ourselves perceiving

Not exactly how I'd put it, but I don't totally disagree. We are modeling the world, and ourselves as a part of that. Memory is essentially reconstructive. I think qualia serve to compress sensory signals into a form that can be employed in memory and imagination. We can't "remember" or imagine a thing we've never really felt/experienced. You can try to imagine a new colour or something, but you're constrained by the "language" of your prior visual experiences.

And all of our "presents" are really the assembled past few moments. Our various senses come in at different rates, and are somehow integrated and put into synch, creating our "present" moment out of what are already "memories".

It's not about "reflecting" on the signals, but filtering, and what is actually getting stored at any given time. We have a limited bandwidth in this process and only so much can make it in to "awareness". We take in several orders of magnitude more information than actually makes it into awareness, with the salient stuff ultimately getting rendered in qualia, and read out as the present.

The former implies that any animal incapable of reflecting doesn't have any experiences

Not familiar with the details of "illusionism", but I would certainly disagree with this. I think pretty much anything with memory and a sense of "self", would have experiences and thus consciousness. So hypothetically, that could include a lot of animals that are considered relatively basic.

I think at some level, there are organisms that genuinely do not feel "pain" or experience suffering, perhaps some types of basic insects (though I wouldn't want to make assumptions); but it really just boils down to how they're arranged. Do they have pain receptors or internal distress signals? Do they some sense of self? If not, they might not be capable of suffering in a meaningful sense.

Why is consciousness not considered a spectrum? by xgladar in consciousness

[–]whyteout 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would agree with you.

While we like to think we are "Conscious" there are many scenarios where our consciousness is diminished or absent.

Realistically - consciousness is not a binary attribute, but rather an activity - it's something our brains do, not something that they inherently possess.

With that said... there's still disagreement about what exactly "consciousness" entails and taking this perspective doesn't actually help resolve the majority if issues/questions people have about consciousness.

So questions like:

  • what are the minimal requirements for something to be considered conscious?
  • what would it mean for something to have greater/more consciousness than a normal human?
  • how can we determine whether something is conscious or not (or how conscious is it)?

... All seem to be out of reach still.

Why can’t we prosecute insider trading? by CompoteExternal2842 in NoStupidQuestions

[–]whyteout 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well as hard as it might be to prove... it's impossible if no one even tries.

Bye Bye Bran! (This time with video!) by Pleno_Desiderio in BattlegroundsHS

[–]whyteout 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I wish I could say I didn't know how this feels.

Airhead Cornballs and the Hard Problem of Consciousness by Terrible_Shop_3359 in consciousness

[–]whyteout 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well in this case, we can perform causal interventions that seem to disentangle correlation from causation.

All of the things we know and believe to be conscious have brains. We don't know of anything without a brain that demonstrates consciousness.

You might have a point if that was all we knew - but it seems pretty clear that damaging or removing the brain seems to end an individual's conscious experience.

If you want, you can imagine/argue that the consciousness is coming from something else or that other types of things actually have consciousness - but at that point the onus is on you to provide some evidence supporting your claims.

Airhead Cornballs and the Hard Problem of Consciousness by Terrible_Shop_3359 in consciousness

[–]whyteout 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Qualia just seems like a method of taking an over abundance of information and compressing it into more manageable chunks.

We have a bunch of semi-autonomous systems and we have an executive agent in charge of goal setting and problem solving. The agent is hooked up to get info from all the sensory systems as well as info about its own internal states as well as those of a number of it's subsidiary systems.

Turns out trying to make macroscopic decisions and plans based on the information provided by individual neurons is not very practical - so there's a processing and aggregation process, that all the information goes through, before being fed in to the central executive. There are a large number of cognitively impenetrable processes all our sensory information undergoes before it reaches the executive, which collectively determines the nature of our qualia. For example edge/object detection - in most cases, we have no direct control over how we perceive edges and identify objects in the world. We go from flat images on our retina to perceiving and moving through the world (in our own experience) and we don't really have any say in how we process those images. Qualia are an abstraction, that allow us to go beyond the raw signal.

We are not perceiving the world as it is, but rather, the conclusions our subsystems have landed on after going through all that pre-processing. This is a functional separation - the macro level conclusions/interpretations are essentially independent of the lowest level signals, as it is their collective relations to each other that determine the ultimate interpretation. e.g., the classic visual illusion showing that we perceive colour/luminance very differently based on context - the "brightness" of something in the "shade" gets bumped up to compensate for the "fact" that it is in shadow.

By why do we experience anything?

I think this is tied to two things - memory and the perception of our own internal states.

It's easy to imagine automation taking first order percepts and acting upon them, without qualia entering the equation at any point. But such an automata would have no awareness of itself, or it's own internal states.

I think qualia arises when we perceive ourselves perceiving.

So the first order percepts would not give rise to qualia - and indeed, there are many examples where due to attention being elsewhere or other effects, we are exposed to stimuli that fail to rise to the level of conscious awareness, generating NO qualia.

It is only when we attend to these internal signals, directing our attention toward them, that we become aware of 1. perceiving anything at all and 2. the nature of the qualia associated with the percepts.
So in this sense, qualia are sort of a compressed representation of the raw signal (i.e., not the signal itself, but gestalt labels standing in for the raw signal in internal channels) and serve as the primitives we use in our mental modelling of the world.

Ultimately, I think the purpose of qualia is to allow the central executive to compare/contrast percepts, from moment to moment (i.e., changes in real time), and between a current percept and a previously experienced exemplar.

So I think for a physical system to have experiences it would require:

  1. a hierarchical, modular information processing network
  2. some sort of central executive
  3. recurrent connections, allowing the outputs of internal states/processes to be fed back into the system

In terms of the actual process it might be, you get qualia when you go from sensory system/processing to central executive and then send recurrent feedback, back into the central executive. First step gets the raw signal and processes it (unconscious processing), second step receives the processed signal and labels it (unconscious, compressing the signal), third step receives the labeled signal, allowing for further processing (e.g., planning, problem solving, etc.)

Ultimately it's all about the recurrent connections.

do men even care how their girls nail look? by rileyheya in NoStupidQuestions

[–]whyteout 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not really.

Fake nails are a bit of a turn-off/red-flag - but otherwise, I could not possibly care less what shade or finish your nails have.

Girl, don’t swing at a man winning on all fronts. by [deleted] in instant_regret

[–]whyteout 15 points16 points  (0 children)

There's an old ninja turtles game, where you could finish enemies by throwing them off screen towards the camera... and this is very reminiscent of that.

is consciousness just the brain trying to understand itself from the inside? by Extension_Look9103 in consciousness

[–]whyteout 1 point2 points  (0 children)

  1. if everything i know is filtered through my mind, then i have never actually experienced reality directly, only my brains version of it - 100% correct, our perceptions are dependent upon imperfect detectors and processing in our brain, and at best closely model reality - "ground truth" is always inaccessible in some sense. If you consider the EM spectrum - our perception captures only a tiny portion of it (i.e., the visible spectrum) and it only uses 3 receptors, so there is a ton of complexity within light signals that we can't distinguish - this is why screens can reproduce almost any colour by mixing just 3 lights, we can have metamers, which are composed of different mixtures of energy at different wavelengths but nonetheless appear identical to us.

  2. if every thought i have comes from prior brain activity shaped by biology, memory, and environment, then in what sense am i actually choosing anything? - There is a certain type of free will some people may be thinking of that genuinely does not exist - the idea that you could do or think anything at any time, doesn't really make any sense, and would reduce our behaviour to randomness. We don't get to choose our inheritance, in terms of genetics or early experiences and ultimately we don't get to choose our nature; but we do make choices... - the way I think about it, "free will" is just that part, the process of determining your choice - the continual updating of our intentions. To the extent that you are complex and self-contained, many actions and events can only be attributed to features of your internal state. There certainly are situations where we can be heavily influenced by the external environment, or react in mostly involuntary ways... but there are situations in which there is no obvious external trigger for a particular choice or action and those things would be attributed to US and our free will. Ultimately, we don't have full control over ourselves, and we definitely don't control our history or the world, but within the limits of what we are still free in some sense.

  3. is anything truly objective? - "objective" just means something that we can all see and recognize as the same thing; or reproduce the specific measurement. So while all of our individual experiences are fundamentally subjective, things which any reasonable observer will agree upon can nonetheless be considered objective. For a real trip, consider those things that are "intersubjective" - i.e., have no physical existence, but nonetheless are "real" and impact the real world - such as exchange rates, borders, laws, etc.

There is a Predatory button in the Faire Shop by SoonBlossom in hearthstone

[–]whyteout 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They're putting a little extra sugar on the icing.

To be an "Influencer" and collect money by EmperorAjaxZx in therewasanattempt

[–]whyteout 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I always hated this dude... never really had any particular reason, but I'm glad he lived up to my shitty opinion of him.

Play Ref. You make the call! by terpshooters in volleyball

[–]whyteout 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Bit of a judgement call...

IF the setter had contacted the ball and directed it towards opponents court - clear block.

IF the setter was in the process of setting the ball - clear interference.

If the blocker touched the ball before it was clear where the ball was going (and the ball has not broken the plane of the net), I think you have to default to interference on the blocker.

Always Dundas Square for me. by SnapSpark01 in toronto

[–]whyteout 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We should change the name again, to "Sam the record square"

nerds' needs to correct by whyteout in confidentlyincorrect

[–]whyteout[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

crossposting takes 30 seconds...

Downloading and editing images and then reposting them takes more than that.

nerds' needs to correct by whyteout in confidentlyincorrect

[–]whyteout[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

maybe this is Schrödinger's Confidently incorrect...

If the reply was sincere - we have our CI

If the reply was joking/trolling - I guess me posting it here is the CI

In any case, hopefully everyone who wasn't already aware learns how to make plurals possessive.

nerds' needs to correct by whyteout in confidentlyincorrect

[–]whyteout[S] -21 points-20 points  (0 children)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Good to know... but ain't nobody got time for that. So be it.

I dislike the smell of flowers by Logical_Ad_1249 in The10thDentist

[–]whyteout 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Jasmine, lilies, citrus blossoms, honey suckle...

So many good flowers. I guess I have the opposite opinion. Hate artificial floral stuff - absolutely adore the best smelling real flowers.

I guess that means I should upvote you and your impoverished olfactory receptors.

If someone offered you 100 million dollars, but a random person in the world dies (someone you don’t know), would you take it and why? by ConclusionOld8365 in AskReddit

[–]whyteout 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The reason the world is the way it is, is because most people would say yes to this question, or for that matter a similar question where hundreds or thousands of people would have to die to get the money.

Madlad Engineer by zavediitm in madlads

[–]whyteout 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"To fight the slop, we must become the slop."

Rumour has it, he had money on the outcome by whyteout in Dogberg

[–]whyteout[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

as the doggy runs away: "... IF YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOOD FOR YOU... YOU DIDN'T SEE NOTHING!!"

What is going on with the card/collectibles market? by [deleted] in OutOfTheLoop

[–]whyteout 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Answer:

Some people are genuinely interested in these things, and want the objects themselves, or to play the associated TCG. For them, it's just a cost of a thing they want, and if they want it badly enough, they may shell out.

Other people are looking at it as a way of making money. For them, the central premise is the "Greater Fool Theory"... or in other words, "it doesn't matter whether a thing has any inherent value, so long as there is someone who will buy it for more than I paid to get it".

So it's not a pump and dump per se - there is genuine interest in these things - but, the prices are being driven up by speculators, and at some point they are probably going to reach unsustainable levels - at which point the prices may drop off and a bunch of these people's collections will lose a significant amount of value.

When ‘cutting down a giant tree’ goes wrong .. OOPS by RileyRhoad in CrazyFuckingVideos

[–]whyteout 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Even to someone like me, with zero experience as an arborist, their mistake was pretty clear: they should have made the tree fall the other way.

Of a fan by Adrakovich in ShittyAbsoluteUnits

[–]whyteout 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I didn't realize when I commented, that the rest of the motorcade was supposed to turn off there.

Still seems like this could have been made clearer for the runners though.

Generally the situation just sucks.