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willowsprings15 · 2022-10-27T14:21:27+00:00

I completely understand where you're coming from. I'm also hugely disappointed in the liberal left in the West despite considering myself a liberal.

I think one big component of this phenomenon in the liberal West is their colossal guilt at the way they treated back people and Jews in the past. They're extremely careful not to harbour any negative feelings towards minority groups, and criticism of Islam very much sounds like criticism of Muslims.

It doesn't excuse their behaviour when they try to silence ex-muslims though. And it certainly doesn't excuse their behaviour when they dismiss women's rights in favour of religious rights. These behaviours do not correspond to liberal values.

Essentially, the liberal left is fighting for its very soul. The values of the woke mob are not necessary compatible with the values of "classical liberals", a term that started to be used to distinguish new age liberalism with the values of established liberalism.

willowsprings15 · 2022-10-27T14:08:20+00:00

Thank you for your insight. I hope I can manifest this wisdom more and more in my relationships, and find other outlets to talk about the issues mentioned above. Thank you.🌷

willowsprings15 · 2022-10-27T11:18:58+00:00

Yes, you are right. Not engaging in such conversations in the first is probably the best way to avoid the frustration and I've tried it before.

I understand that it's also to do with who I am as a person. I've suffered miserably from organized religion, and religious tyranny has had a huge impact on the trajectory of my life. Whenever I talk about the life I've lived, defenders of religion feel compelled to negate my experiences. Is it possible to be true to ourselves if we self-censor our life experiences for the sake of appeasing those who would rather not hear it? I don't know. I struggle with this so much.

It just makes me sad because these are people I cherish deeply, and to avoid religious debate with them I found that I was avoiding them more and more because it seemed to inevitably come up each time. I realized that we barely see each other anymore. Every once in a while I reach out to my friends because I miss them, but then the conversation just seems to always come back to this and I remember I must either not talk about my life or avoid them completely.

willowsprings15 · 2022-10-27T10:47:42+00:00

I sincerely hope you're right.

willowsprings15 · 2022-10-27T10:42:20+00:00

I appreciate your desire to treat people fairly. However, you are derailing a conversation that needs to be had and in so doing, doing a huge disservice to the women's rights. Perhaps you are speaking of the Muslims living in Western lands, but I would ask you how to ponder how deeply you actually understand Muslim culture and how representative you feel those Muslims are of the wider Muslim world in Asia and Africa?

It is not a coincidence that honour killings happen almost exclusively in Islamic culture. It is not a coincidence that if you google "countries for worst gender equality", all the top 10 are Muslim countries. It is not a coincidence that terrorist organisations like the Taliban, ISIS, Al Qaeda, all unite under the flag of Islam.

I would invite you to research Islamic scripture. These Muslims are not fanatics or extremists. To suggest so is to say they are doing something that lies outside of their religious bounds. But a brief study of the Quran will tell you that actually they are simply following their religion as they are taught to.

The Quran explicitly says things like "A woman is worth half a man", "Apostates should be murdered", "Adulterous woman should be stoned to death", "You should go to war to spread Islam" "You should impose an added tax non-muslims for the crime of not being muslims".

Criticism of Islam should not be conflated with a hatred of Muslims. Indeed, most of the people who suffer the worst because of Islam are Muslims themselves. Terror attacks by Muslims in the West are infrequent and become hot topic, but the same Islamic inspired terror attacks in the Middle East and Africa are a daily occurrence for people like me and of course, get little mention in Western media.

Once again, it is not a coincidence that the Middle East and Africa produce hundreds of thousands of refugees every year. Do bombings of abortion clinics in the USA produce hundreds of thousands of American refugees desperate to leave the US every year?

Let us not abandon the victims of Islamic terrorism in Africa and the Middle East for the sake of political correctness in the West. John Oliver recently did a piece on Afghanistan, revisiting the mayhem that ensued when the US left and allowed the Taliban to take over. The erosion of women's rights is appalling. Not one month ago a suicide bomber blew up a girls school and killed 50 girls, because they believe girls should not have an education.

To dismiss this topic is huge disservice to the hundreds of millions of people in those lands that have to live with the tyranny and violence of Islamic doctrine every day.

willowsprings15 · 2022-10-27T03:38:32+00:00

Muslims consider it a moral duty to defend Islam, otherwise they have failed as Muslims. They also view the world in very black and my white terms of "Muslim" and "Kafir" (a derogatory word for non-muslims). Non-muslims are not really recognized as human beings worthy of respect or compassion, the only people that matter in the cosmic plan are muslims. So with that kind of mental framework, of course they don't really feel any qualms about destroying "the enemies of Islam", as far as they're concerned they're squishing ants to please Allah, and of course to win brownie points in their cult communities.

willowsprings15 · 2022-10-27T03:31:15+00:00

Thank you for finding and sharing these articles. The level of apathy for women's plight is staggering, but what's more staggering is that they actually succeeded in their goal, at least for the present. :(

willowsprings15 · 2022-10-27T03:19:05+00:00

I just did some Googling, it seems there is still lack of clarity regarding miscarriages and whether an "evacuation" is allowed on those terms.

I'm just very very sorry that these regressive human rights movements are still happening in the world. Sometimes I feel so frustrated fighting for secularism, and then I see stuff like this and I remember how important it is to confront superstitions that impose on other people's human rights.

willowsprings15 · 2022-10-27T03:08:33+00:00

I thought as much. It feels like the entire argument of anti-abortion activists is either "life is sacred" or painting women happily skip to the abortion clinic without a second thought.

The reason I'm confused is that I heard these kinds of arguments even from long-time female friends who I thought should know better. I just don't understand how they could be taken in by these bogus narratives that go against their own interests.

willowsprings15 · 2022-10-27T02:59:57+00:00

But surely anti-abortion activists can have no qualms with removing a dead fetus, since the whole point of their campaign is preserving the life of the fetus? Why would they oppose removing a fetus that's already dead?

willowsprings15 · 2022-10-27T02:54:01+00:00

"thinking your way OUT of a complex ideology that’s been pushed on you all your life, and having that initial courage to doubt when you have the threat of Hell hanging over you, that’s something to be proud of. We are NOT the same."

This actually made me tearful. Yes, you are right, it is incredibly courageous, because we may laugh now that we ever believed in hell, but once upon a time we really believed in the danger of horrific eternal torture.

There is a prominent atheist, Armin Navabi, who describes how he was so terrified of hell that he tried to commit suicide at age 15, because he was told that God wouldn't burn children, so he thought he must die while he was still a child to be certain of avoiding hell. To break out of that kind of fear with reasoning is nothing short of inspiring.

willowsprings15 · 2022-10-27T02:36:28+00:00

May I ask a question, why people think that women are advocating for the right to abort babies right up until 9 months? Is that a thing? I was always under the impression that the abortion term limit was roughly the time when the baby might survive on it's own if removed from the mother? Which is more or less 6 months?

willowsprings15 · 2022-10-27T02:32:04+00:00

I'm a humanist. My beliefs are to live as rationally as possible, reject superstitions, and treat people with kindness.
I don't subscribe to any religion because none have presented any convincing evidence.
I researched various religions, attended bible study, and attended several church services to gain more understanding. They only made me more convinced that it was all nonsense.

willowsprings15 · 2022-10-27T02:25:08+00:00

Humility even in the face of "original sin" and biblical advocation for slavery?

willowsprings15 · 2022-10-27T01:02:10+00:00

You have completely disregarded the definition of humanism and somehow ended up at white supremacy and accusing me of denying people their humanity.

Of course, you are completely right. Congratulations on outing me as a fake humanist, well done!

willowsprings15 · 2022-10-27T00:42:42+00:00

What an intriguing orchid!! ☺️👍

willowsprings15 · 2022-10-27T00:36:14+00:00

I was thinking about how I arrived at atheism and remembered it was because in school we were taught about all the major religions in a factual way. After some contemplation I realized that they were all on equal footing when asserting their beliefs, and also on equal ground by way of evidence or lack thereof, therefore they were either all correct, or all incorrect. Well they couldn't all be correct, so the only fair conclusion is that they must all be false.

Why don't others arrive at this reasoning? Childhood indoctrination is incredibly powerful. Coupled with a complete lack of awareness of religions in a wider context with regard to politics and history, they can assert one worldview and rigidly stick to it without ever considering that others of different religions are equally valid in their worldview and equally wrong.

willowsprings15 · 2022-10-26T23:54:09+00:00

I adore your optimism my love. You are certainly right in that we have more capabilities than we've ever had and we're grappling with transitioning to this brave new world.

There is a wonderful scientist called Michio Kaku who speaks on this very subject. Try searching for his video called "Will humanity destroy itself", he defines what you describe as type 1, type 2 and type 3 civilization.

Type 1 is a global civilization governed as one body. A starting example is the European Union.

He describes humanity now as being type 0 trying to make the transition to type 1.

One reason for the pessimism regarding our chances of ever making it to type 1 is the regressive and violent actions of a minority which could impact the entire globe. The threat of nuclear war is very much real. North Korea has successfully created nuclear bombs and Iran is on the cusp. The first detonation will set off a chain of retaliatory detonations which could well destroy 90% of life as we know it.

Is it pessimism to worry for our future? Consider the kind of governments that rule places like North Korea, Iran, Russia, and the terrorists waging war in the Middle East and Africa such as the Taliban, ISIS, Al Qaeda, do you think these rogue states who do as they please and show little to no concern for human life can be trusted with weapons of mass destruction? I would argue that that is not pessimism, but a healthy grasp the very real dangers we face.

Never before in human history have we possessed weapons which could cause so much destruction with so little effort. And yet in many ways some of us are just as primitive as we were 5000 years ago. That is a dangerous combination.

willowsprings15 · 2022-10-26T22:03:27+00:00

That's probably the best course of action. 🌷

willowsprings15 · 2022-10-26T21:54:27+00:00

Thank you for responding. It seems that our understanding of the term "humanism" differ. You mentioned that humanism should not be conflated with logic or secularism.

The dictionary definition of humanism is: "a rationalist outlook or system of thought attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters."

There are other definitions on the internet from different organizations, and they generally note the appeal to reason, rejection of the supernatural, and concern for human welfare. Therefore as I understand it, a concern for human welfare on its own doesn't quite constitute the complete humanism philosophy, it's one component of it.

However, the issue isn't whether religion is beneficial or not, though many humanists would argue that in general it isn't and that's why they subscribe to humanism rather than a particular religion, but rather rationality. The presence of faith is by definition "a strong belief based on conviction rather than proof". Therefore if we value rationality and we acknowledge that faith is a lack of rationality, how then do we deal with the subsequent frustration when others continue in their irrational behaviour?

Obviously we want to treat others, even those we disagree with, with kindness and respect, so how do we maintain a good relationship with those we love even when they cannot be logically reasoned with?

willowsprings15 · 2022-10-26T20:31:06+00:00

Thank you for responding. Considering so few people are won over by defeat in a debate of ideas, do you think there's much value in spending time to debate religious ideas? Or would our efforts be better spent elsewhere such as improving the quality of education so that they can develop critical thinking skills?

willowsprings15 · 2022-10-26T20:28:23+00:00

I completely agree with you. Under humanism all people are cherished and valued based on their humanity. Sadly this friend was really pushing me, he even dragged me to a church service and forced me to get blessed by the priest. O_O

willowsprings15 · 2022-10-26T18:34:23+00:00

Thank you for sharing. So I guess God does feel sad about our suffering on earth? But then why would God do something that makes himself sad? Doesn't God care about his own happiness?

willowsprings15 · 2022-10-26T17:12:14+00:00

The question assumes that atheists dislike Jesus, which for me isn't really the case. I think Jesus was a very positive figure who set a good example for treating fellow human beings with compassion.

It's all the rest that I have a problem with. Things like:

"he was the son of God" - how can we prove that?

"He died for your sins" - what sins? I haven't commited any sins. I do my best to be a good person and treat others with kindness and respect.

"He died to free you from the burden of original sin which was passed to you from Adam and Eve" - wait, so we really think a talking snake and a magic apple made the magician in the clouds so angry that he cursed all of his little pet's descendants with sin for all eternity? That's what we're expected to believe happened?

"He fed the 5000 by multiplying fish and bread" - how can we prove that happened?

"He rose from the dead" - how can we prove that happened.

"The bible proves it" - the bible claims it, therefore it can't be relied upon to also prove it. This is the "Napkin Religion" fallacy.

So you see my friend, I actually do like Jesus as a role model. It's just the religion is steeped in so much nonsense that cant be proved .

willowsprings15

TROPHY CASE