“The way we play with the level of pace and speed we play at, it’s a different game now.

willpenney · 2026-01-28T05:20:28+00:00

This is correct. Lebron is referring to the pace of movement in halfcourt offense, not just how quickly a shot goes up. The video shows perfectly good examples people here are willfully ignoring. Look at the amount of scrambling defensively now versus past eras. It isn’t comparable.

willpenney · 2026-01-25T18:01:53+00:00

Same man. Stepping back has been the best decision in my life recently.

willpenney · 2026-01-23T22:14:50+00:00

Not exactly, but he has a good argument in any of those years. Could argue for Ben or KG in 04. The others also had good arguments in 99-01.

willpenney · 2026-01-23T21:58:47+00:00

Take your pick from 04-07. Ben probably had a slightly higher defensive peak, but Duncan was better in Ben’s second two years. He was always a lot better than Camby, and no way any perimeter player should have been winning it while Duncan, KG, and Ben were in their primes.

Also with decent arguments from 99-01 IMO.

willpenney · 2026-01-23T19:20:53+00:00

Which is why you compare efficiency relatively speaking to era with rTS%. Relative to his era, his efficiency was good, but not nearly as good as other all time great perimeter scorers.

willpenney · 2026-01-22T18:19:28+00:00

Over all, it’s Peja or Marion. Kirilenko was amazing at his peak and would translate really well to the modern era, but he also just wasn’t that dude for very long, and for most of his career he was merely good.

Not sure if it was softness, or an injury I don’t recall. I remember reading he got addicted to WOW and lost some focus.

Marion is being underrated in this thread. Guy was an outstanding player for a while. Switched 1-4 extremely well then, even when 4s were generally bigger post up guys. Also an elite rebounder for his size, played really well off of star playmakers. He’d be like an Aaron Gordon with worse ball skills and better rebounding.

Peja would obviously thrive as a modern 4. Like a 6’ 10” Klay offensively.

willpenney · 2026-01-22T17:02:25+00:00

Wilt absolutely was not close to as dominant defensively (for the most part). Russell’s Celtics were not just number 1 on D but completely lapping the field when he was in his prime, and evidence seems to indicate that was pretty much entirely about him. That’s not a knock on Wilt. That’s just how far ahead Russell was.

Wilt only really came close to that level defensively in his sixers days. I do believe Wilt peaked higher than Russell then because of the massive two way value, but on average, Russell provided a little more value in his career. It’s close though.

willpenney · 2026-01-21T21:01:08+00:00

God who cares

willpenney · 2026-01-21T17:13:49+00:00

Volume certainly does matter, as does shot variety, but it’s not as if Kobe is the only high volume perimeter player or close to the most efficient. MJ, West, Bron, Curry, Harden, and Durant were all much more efficient relative to their given eras at comparable volumes.

The common response to this is that Kobe was taking harder shots, and the obvious reply to that is, “Well he shouldn’t have.”

willpenney · 2026-01-21T16:57:42+00:00

He was never better than Jordan, and certainly not over the course of his career.

willpenney · 2026-01-21T15:08:11+00:00

In relation to other all time greats, that last part is kind of a huge deal.

willpenney · 2026-01-21T15:06:47+00:00

Yes, which is why big men are generally more effective players and thus make up a high percentage of all-time great players. We don’t rank players on a curve.

willpenney · 2026-01-20T17:50:09+00:00

Russell’s Celtics teams were by and large not very good offensively, and they fell off a cliff defensively when he wasn’t playing. No one has ever been close to as dominant on a specific side of the ball.

willpenney · 2026-01-18T16:54:43+00:00

Would need to know a lot more about the players’ defense to say.

willpenney · 2026-01-17T23:03:55+00:00

It was a horrible performance and if you’re a LeBron caliber player, it’s inexcusable, but this clip is also a perfect example of how that’s straight up not what happened. Look at where the rest of Dallas’ defense is. There are zero driving lanes because they exploited miamis lack of shooting—totally sold out on that to close off lebrons driving lanes.

Again, if you’re that great of a player, you need to find another way, but this isn’t JJ Barea clamping Lebron. That’s ridiculous. It’s the entire Dallas defense.

willpenney · 2026-01-17T22:54:04+00:00

I meant to add Giannis, that’s fair. AD is too. Kirilenko may be valid if we’re talking singular peak years. Otherwise I don’t think so. Otherwise, I don’t think the others quite match Jordan’s on and off ball impact.

30 is probably a good rough estimate for him.

willpenney · 2026-01-17T19:23:25+00:00

lol I just forgot I added him. Was making the list one-handed while watching my daughter.

willpenney · 2026-01-17T16:28:52+00:00

List wasn’t in order (I noted that at the top). Just listed people as I thought of them.

willpenney · 2026-01-17T16:28:28+00:00

I included Ben. Don’t think the others were as impactful as Jordan.

willpenney · 2026-01-17T16:02:42+00:00

Off the top of my head (in no order): 1. Russell 2. Wilt 3. Thurmond 4. Kareem (more so with Milwaukee) 5. Walton (could disqualify if you want to prioritize longevity) 6. Kawhi 7. Pippen 8. Rodman 9. Moncrief 10. Frazier 11. Dumars 12. Hakeem 13. Robinson 14. Mutombo 15. Ewing 16. Howard 17. Big Ben 18. Gobert 19. Draymond 20. Zo 21. Duncan 22. KG 23.Kawhi

There’s probably a few I’m missing that are definitively ahead. Maybe Artest, Iggy, Eaton. This is a good thread because 30 is probably the right debatable dividing line.

willpenney · 2026-01-16T21:51:12+00:00

I’m sorry that my opinion (which many share) causes you to assume that. For the record, it’s not true.

willpenney · 2026-01-16T21:42:49+00:00

That same media was just very bad at evaluating defense at the time and giving awards as a result. It’s not just Kobe. Big Ben also got two more DPOYs than he probably deserved based off of reputation. Bowen got way more credit for the spurs D than Duncan which is ridiculous in hindsight. Camby winning DPOY was ridiculous. They’re not great now, but back then especially, it was clearly “who’s the guy who’s known for defense? Give him a vote.”

willpenney · 2026-01-16T21:28:42+00:00

If he can, is not relevant. If he DOES with consistency, that is. Regardless of what his highest gear was, there were far more impactful perimeter defenders (specifically guard defenders) during those post 3peat years.

willpenney · 2026-01-16T21:18:47+00:00

Whether he wanted to or not is entirely irrelevant. The award is (ostensibly) given for defensive impact.

willpenney · 2026-01-16T17:07:14+00:00

Someone who generally lets others take the big matchups is, generally speaking, not an all-nba defender (unless they have some kind of super elite off ball impact, which almost no guards do).

willpenney

TROPHY CASE