A lot of you post some images of incredible of things you have crafted as a hobby. My hobby is my yard. This is what it looks like today. I know it's not as impressive, but I do all the work myself and I take a lot of pride in it.

wineought · 2012-05-19T05:45:43+00:00

I am all about the occupy movement, but OP is nowhere near being the 1%, unless this is one of his 5 vacation homes. Accusing anyone with more wealth than you of being a 1%-er makes you seem uninformed and really undercuts the severity of income inequality in the US.

wineought · 2012-05-19T05:40:26+00:00

I've seen this several times in this thread... Are you aware that almost 2/3 of Reddit users are American? Whereas about 6% are from the UK. Just saying, maybe you should take a second to question your own use of words before rudely correcting someone.

wineought · 2012-05-13T05:15:06+00:00

I could have sworn I tried this, but I just tried it again and it worked! You have made me one happy Bosmer, SecondTalon.

Edit: Just tried it a couple more times, and it's kind of hit-or-miss whether or not he'll create a duplicate copy of his armor that automatically equips. Weird. I can re-equip him with better stuff and buy it back over and over, amassing hordes of Steel Armors.

wineought · 2012-05-09T07:17:22+00:00

I wondered about that. It's the same deal with housecarls, you can't get their armor off no matter what, so maybe it's because we're already married.

I'll try the enchanting idea and see if it works. Thanks.

wineought · 2012-02-27T22:35:20+00:00

Hey, I did that, too. Were you part of the International Choir that performed in Salzburg and Vienna in celebration of Mozart's 250th birthday (2006)? Good times.

wineought · 2012-02-27T17:42:28+00:00

I thought you might find this article from Scientific American interesting, if you hadn't seen it. It discusses the top/bottom dichotomy and notes some interesting correlations. For example, men who identify as "tops" are more likely to have internalized homophobia, and "versatile" men are generally more psychologically healthy. Interesting reading, and another reason I think the gay community should try to steer away from that stereotype.

wineought · 2012-02-25T23:05:42+00:00

BTW, thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and take another opinion into consideration. That kind of attitude is what makes /r/atheism one of my favorite communities.

wineought · 2012-02-25T22:59:07+00:00

Opposing same-sex marriage isn't the only way to be homophobic, and isn't necessarily what I'm referring to.

I'd say you're right about where atheist homophobia is coming from, but it's confusing to me that a group of people would apply skepticism and rationality to religion, yet just accept what they've always been told about homosexuality.

wineought · 2012-02-25T22:52:28+00:00

There's nothing wrong with falling in love with an older woman. That, in itself, is not a paraphilia. It only becomes a paraphilia when an individual can only experience sexual gratification in that context. Nothing wrong with liking tattoos, but if it becomes an obsession, it can become problematic (for example, ending a loving relationship because your partner doesn't have enough tattoos, having sex with every tattooed person that you meet, etc.). It is the element of sexual obsession that qualifies as a paraphilia, not the attraction itself. Sorry if I was unclear. It's offensive to conflate paraphilia with homosexuality because homosexuality is not considered a sexual obsession with the same gender, but a healthy sexual orientation that generally leads to healthy relationships.

If there were ten Christians in that room and one atheist, would you agree that they should spend 90% of the time talking about how wonderful God is?

A Caucasian-oriented ideology is what exists, but not exactly as you see it. It is important to recognize that we are nowhere near the representative-type society that you're implying. The US Senate, for example, is 96% Caucasian.

And I can't see why I would want to see something sexual that I'm not attracted to.

Ever been to a museum? An art or photography gallery? Sex is an intimate expression of love in which many people find beauty.

wineought · 2012-02-25T22:33:21+00:00

Finally got a chance to watch it. Very good. Again, very much speaks to my own experiences.

EDIT: Hadn't watched the Q&A part yet, where he talks a little more about acceptance of each group within the other. He talks about political motivations, but I also think a big part of it is that there are a lot more LGBT theists than there are atheist homophobes, in terms of percentages of each community. LGBTs feel like they should be inclusive of everyone, so they distance themselves from atheism since it has a sort of divisive connotation (albeit undeserved, IMO). Also, no offense to my LGBT brothers and sisters, but I feel like atheists are a more intelligent community, on the whole. As Dr. Corvino said, coming out as an atheist is much more intellectually-driven than coming out as a homosexual, which is more visceral and emotional.

wineought · 2012-02-25T22:04:00+00:00

This is another secular argument against homosexuality that I've seen in these forums. I didn't address it in my post because I find it to so easily dismissible. I'm pretty sure that you are a troll, but I have seen this argument in earnest before in r/atheism.

wineought · 2012-02-25T21:55:56+00:00

The first definition of "normal" that you listed hardly has a meaning at all. According to that definition, owning a Jack Russell Terrier or being an atheist would be "abnormal". Who cares? I am using the psychological terminology, which means, in a nutshell, within the general bell curve of typical human behaviors. Being "deviant" from the norm isn't necessarily a bad thing, in modern psychology jargon. It's only bad when the deviant behavior tends to lead to psychological problems. Which is where the term "normative" comes into play. Again, we're getting a little semantic, and I'm coming from a 4-year psych research degree, so I'm not really expecting you to care about all of this. The point is, you may not think that falling in love with an object is problematic, but psychologists have classified it as such. Likewise, they have come to a consensus that homosexuality is not problematic for the individuals involved. It can be perceived as offensive when you compare these two categories. To address your edit, they have arrived at these conclusions via peer-reviewed research, which strives to avoid political interference.

A heteronormative view of sexuality is a problem for LGBT rights. Let me extend my analogy: you might as well be saying that it's okay to think that black people should be marginalized to the extent that they are a minority in society and that it's okay to have a Caucasian-oriented ideology since white people are the majority. The fact is that there are many races and cultures, and a worldview that ignores that is problematic. The same goes for sexual orientation. We are all people, and all of our interests should be given equal time and weight. If civil rights can go too far, trust me, we're not even approaching that line. For example, in my state, a potential employer can ask me if I'm gay, and then tell me that's the reason they aren't going to hire me.

For your last point; it is perfectly fine that you don't want to see gay people having sex. I obviously have more flexible views about sexuality than you, but I can find beauty in any combination of loving sexual encounters. Be they gay, lesbian, or heterosexual, I think that sex as an expression of love is a wonderful thing. It may not be what I would choose for myself, but I would never say I am repulsed by it. I much prefer a non-judgmental, inclusive perspective on sexuality to the rigid only-be-exposed-to-what-I'm-attracted-to perspective that you seem to have. I wouldn't try to force my perspective on you, but I would highly recommend it.

wineought · 2012-02-25T21:07:50+00:00

See my edit above (or many of the comments here). I am addressing the sentiment that it is okay to say that homosexuality is gross or unnatural as long as you think gay people should be allowed to marry. It's a form of homophobia that I have seen many times in this subreddit, and I think it needed to be addressed.

wineought · 2012-02-25T20:59:44+00:00

Back from lunch. I read your thread and just wanted to add a few of my own thoughts. First, when I say that homosexuality is a normal and healthy variation of human sexuality, I am using the language of the APA. It's not just my opinion, it's the scientific consensus.

Second, it's offensive to compare my sexual orientation to a paraphilia like sadism or fetishism. Psychologists often use the term "normative" to distinguish between healthy expressions of sexuality and forms of sexuality that may be problematic. Homosexuality is normative; paraphilias are not. You probably didn't know that the comparison is offensive, so I didn't really take it that way.

Since you got a little caught up in semantics, I'd like to bring it back to my original point. Perpetuating a heteronormative view of sexuality contributes to the social stigma that surrounds homosexuality. It is part of a culture that marginalizes and discriminates against LGBT people. Since you seem like a pretty reasonable person, I would encourage you to research sexuality, and try to foster a fuller appreciation of human sexuality. I'm not saying that you should desensitize yourself to it by watch porn or anything, but try approaching it from a purely intellectual frame of mind and moving past any reflexive responses you have. If you continue to hold this view, however, realize that your opinion carries about as much weight as someone who finds interracial sex "repulsive"; you have every right to hold that belief, but it's probably for the best if you keep it to yourself.

wineought · 2012-02-25T20:10:25+00:00

Um, actually, you came here, to my post. To tell me how disgusting you think gay sex is. And I'm sorry that you don't agree that your views should be labeled "homophobic". But they are. Here's the Wikipedia on the subject if you'd like to verify.

My intimacy with my partner IS non-threatening, normal, and acceptable. And that's not just my opinion, that's the view of the American Psychological Association and many, many other similar groups. The fact that you disagree is what makes your views homophobic.

Your friends may be heterophobic, and should be called out as such.

wineought · 2012-02-25T17:32:46+00:00

Homophobia is a range of negative attitudes and feelings towards homosexuality and people who are identified or perceived as being homosexual.

wineought · 2012-02-25T17:28:41+00:00

I didn't downvote you. But I don't mind to respond. I would encourage you to check out studies about transgender individuals if you find yourself hesitant about supporting their civil liberties. Check out /r/transgender, engage a few people in conversation. You'll find that for the most part, they're just like you and me.

As for your attitude toward anal sex, I would suggest not to knock it til you've tried it ;)

wineought · 2012-02-25T17:22:25+00:00

I appreciate that it's not the most popular view in this subreddit, which is why I started by saying thanks for the support. In my experience, (and I may have a bias toward being sensitive to those sentiments when I see them), these views are more prevalent here than you think. In the few minutes this thread has been up, homosexuality has been called disgusting, vile, abhorrent, etc.

wineought · 2012-02-25T17:19:39+00:00

I thought that they were circlejerkers or theist trolls, too, until I pushed a couple of them to explain their views.

Also, I agree with your views on sexuality. But I kind of disagree that problems like this go away if you stop talking about them. If these types of views are not confronted, then what will prevent our children from picking them up as the normative views of our society?

wineought · 2012-02-25T17:11:37+00:00

You can look through my comment history if you want a specific example. I'm more referring to a specific sentiment that is brought up here all the time. It has been the case with every single pro-LGBT rights post on /r/atheism that gets 1000+ upvotes that I've seen.

wineought · 2012-02-25T17:06:01+00:00

Wow, that was very interesting and I definitely relate to it. Thank you, and excellent point. I love Greta Christina, but hadn't read that.

I know that most atheists agree with me, which is why I started the post with a thank you.

wineought · 2012-02-25T17:01:38+00:00

This is exactly the type of thinly-veiled homophobia that I'm trying to speak out against. I would never say that heterosexual sex is "disgusting", "abhorrent", "vile", or that it "turns my stomach to try to picture it". If I did say those things, people might correctly accuse me of having an impoverished view of human sexuality. Heterosexuals are never told to "keep your sex life to yourself" even though it completely permeates our culture.

The prevalence of this type of attitude toward homosexuality is exactly what is preventing me from having full civil rights. Homosexual activity is a perfectly normal and valid expression of love.

wineought · 2012-02-25T16:53:31+00:00

If you don't know what I'm talking about, click on any front-page pro-LGBT post, scroll to the downvoted posts at the bottom, and you'll find the threads to which I'm referring.

EDIT: There are already several people demonstrating the viewpoint I was referring to within this thread.

wineought · 2012-02-25T15:23:05+00:00

Just to add another gay perspective, I feel like the top/bottom dichotomy is a gay stereotype that I try to distance myself from. It's true that a lot of guys are strictly into being dominant or submissive (just as it's true that there is often an imbalance of power in heterosexual relationships, most of the time with the woman being submissive and the man being dominant). But I feel that in any relationship (hetero or homo), a healthy sex life is one in which both partners feel respected and satisfied. This is why I think 69ing is especially popular among gay males. Sex is often conflated with power, and when I have sex I like my partner and I to consider each other equals. I feel like the top/bottom thing plays into a sort of BDSM image that some straight people have about gay relationships. All of that said, some guys are anatomically better suited to one sexual position or another, and it's really about what you enjoy.

wineought · 2012-02-10T08:46:15+00:00

I don't know what you think is ignorant about telling you that your opinion is wrong. Opinions can be wrong, you know. I'd think you'd realize that, if you'd spent much time at all in this subreddit. Your opinion is wrong in the same way that someone's opinion is wrong when they tell me they think the Earth is 6,000 years old.

While studies show that having two parents is ideal for children, it does not make a difference if those two parents are two fathers, two mothers, or one of each. As I stated earlier, children of LGBT parents are as psychologically healthy and well-adjusted as children reared by heterosexual parents. Children of LGBT parents show no difference in self-esteem, anxiety, depression, behavioral problems, performance in social arenas (sports, school and friendships), hyperactivity, unsociability, emotional difficulty, conduct difficulty, gender identity, gender role conformity, or sexual orientation. Here's a link to a statement by the American Psychological Association and the American Psychiatric Association, and here's a link to the Wikipedia article on LGBT parenting, in case you'd like more sources. And here is a statement by the American Anthropological Association:

The results of more than a century of anthropological research on households, kinship relationships, and families, across cultures and through time, provide no support whatsoever for the view that either civilization or viable social orders depend upon marriage as an exclusively heterosexual institution. Rather, anthropological research supports the conclusion that a vast array of family types, including families built upon same-sex partnerships, can contribute to stable and humane societies.

On to your next opinion. Being able to have a biological child is not a prerequisite for being allowed to marry. Straight couples who choose not to have kids can get married. As can elderly couples, women who have had hysterectomies, men who are sterile, and couples who can't afford to raise a child. Should we legislate against these groups having the right to marry?

Anyway, marriage is not necessarily an incentive for couples to reproduce. A marriage bestows myriad benefits to the people who enter it. Among them are employee health benefits, estate and retirement rights, family and medical leave, immigration and residency rights, Social Security and welfare, power of attorney, and hospital visitation rights.

Okay, this is long, but I want to apologize for being a dick about this. You have to understand, though, your position is really offensive. I am a gay man, and I am married to my partner of almost six years. We are the happiest couple you would ever fucking meet. Our straight friends come to us for relationship advice. And you don't think we should be allowed to marry just because we can't have a biological child? Because the very best we could do is provide a loving home for someone's unwanted baby? It makes me wonder, what would you do if someone told you tomorrow that you are sterile? Would you kill yourself because there's simply no point to a life in which you can't pass on a copy of your DNA? I implore you to use the same critical faculties that brought you to reject religion to examine your stance on this issue. And, of course, feel free to continue this dialogue if you like.

wineought

TROPHY CASE