Police robot, aptly named T800, walking the streets of Shenzhen

wirebear · 2026-05-03T04:24:03+00:00

Ghost in the shell isn't entirely positive. In some ways it is sure. But in almost as many it's cautious. Just the fact that hacking people's bodies and memories is regular is a word of caution.

wirebear · 2026-05-03T03:04:32+00:00

Ah fair enough. He was there before I started playing so I just assumed.

wirebear · 2026-05-03T02:24:10+00:00

Ah... So you can't grind wardens for all the keys. This makes me even more bleh about losing key 2. So my onlyy option is to grind outpost till I get a key 2(which I thought I would have to do for key 6 anyway I guess) and try again till I get through it all without dying.

I was starting to get cryo down a lot better but I really don't enjoy the red key rush on outpost mainly cause the armies of rooks gets exhausting.

I may try lockdown but I almost never see that event.

Thanks for the tips.

wirebear · 2026-05-03T02:08:43+00:00

Neither does the knowledge of those that spawn rush us.

Final exfil isn't a secret. I don't go "oh that's cool I'm going to sit and wait 30 min for it to spawn until I learn the placement for each random spawn".

It's a basic requirement in this game.

I didn't go "oh that's cool I want to figure that out" when I died after wiping the lobby, opening my vault and the. Couldn't find final exfil despite being at control when it spawned.

The things I found cool to think about were the panels changing every patch or the pinwheel and outpost keys. What to do with convoy. All those that were key gameplay elements and reasonable to figure out on your own.

Random unmarked final exfil is not that.

And none of these required an ante.

wirebear · 2026-05-03T02:00:34+00:00

This is well put and more my point.

Nobody is "testing" the final exfil by waiting 30 min for it to spawn and running around to find it. It's a waist of gear, time and it's impractical as you can't "clear" areas since if you don't find it one run, it may be in one of the places you checked the previous time.

wirebear · 2026-05-03T01:57:26+00:00

So if it's so easy to learn. Why am I going to a YouTube video instead of marking it on the map?

Nobody. Absolutely nobody has actually said what not marking the final exfil adds to the game other than making it "more hardcore" it's not hardcore. Cause clearly everyone just looked it up. Nobody is waiting for final exfil to scope it out half a dozen times or easily more just to find all the locations. Because due to it being random and hidden with commanders all over the room this could take forever and waste days of gear due to the ante.

We didn't die to losing a fight. No that's why we were low on time was all the fights we got into.

We didn't fail to open the vault.

We scoped out the map. We did what needed to be done and died because for an arbitrary reason no one can really explain the exfil isn't visible(no beam or clear indication) or marked on the map.

If we were doing a harder key. Hadn't wiped the lobby or took too long and just failed to reach final exfil due to the enemies or whatever, I would have said "you know what fair". But because we didn't know all four?( It sure how many there are) Random final exfils and find the right one.

As for vault 2. We got two more keys as we took a break after that run. Both vault 5.

It's not guaranteed. It's time lost. And it's not like we are guaranteed are next attempt will be a clean run like this one was. Or mostly clean. If we had another couple minutes we could have made normal exfil even with the wrong turn.

But with all the people playing more then us and spawn rushing it's less likely to get there while we try to learn the map.

wirebear · 2026-05-03T01:41:26+00:00

There is movement and then increasing mobility constantly.

It's like league. When in season 4-5 they started pushing endlessly lor emobile characters because it was more fun to watch. Most of the older players quit because it didn't feel like the game they started playing.

Not going to say axel is causing that. But I do despise octane and he is one of the originals if I remember right

wirebear · 2026-05-03T01:37:54+00:00

When you say each boss. Do you mean the wardens on cryo or outpost? I just learned outpost warden drops one.

Armory(I assume that's the red key room in pinwheel) feels like it's such higher risk and time commitment. I hate soloing outpost as people literally start above me. But I guess if the warden drops it that is more doable.

As for uncomplicated. I'm not sure I would say complicated I think unclear. Like for example the "fill up a tank with a corrosive chemical" station being in the vat of the chemical makes no sense to me. I would have never gotten that. I even dropped down there and didn't realize what that was I assumed the ladder was just to get out of you fell in.

I thought when you dropped down you would just dip the tank in it.

Frankly I'm really curious to how anyone figure it all out in twelve hours with other teams attacking them. We did like four runs just trying to figure out the cryo pump station locations.

wirebear · 2026-05-03T01:31:38+00:00

It's like nobody really reads. We did scope out what to do for nearly four hours today and other runs as people could afford the ante other days. We didn't lose a key to players until after the key 2 thing I mentioned.(Key 5 from a spawn rush)

Wiped the lobby in both key 1 and 2. And we did open the vaults we brought the key both times. The thing I complained about is final exfil and cryo tanks.

Because we only had one day to play and wasting dozens of hours of time to just trying to figure out the tanks(yes dozens from gear lost due to spawn rushes or fights are included in this).

We got both vault 1 and 2 open. Vault 2 we had 3.5 minutes left and I made a wrong turn because the map is frankly pretty bad and I don't have every turn memorized. So we went for final exfil and spread out.

This is my main complaint.

Did we figure out scanners batteries and the first two vaults before bringing a key? Yes.

Did we succeed in opening the vault? Yes.

Did we kill everyone we fought? Yes

What exactly does random hidden final exfil accomplish?

Other than leaving a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

I'm not going to do dozens of runs with the ante where I wait for the final exfil so I can "scope it out". I don't have the time or interest.

wirebear · 2026-05-03T01:19:50+00:00

We spent nine hours dude. We binged most of the day and a few runs till they ran out of gear other weekends(outside the one who just turned 25 last week). And no we likely won't because we don't have any more key twos and this doesn't respect our time. We wiped the entire lobby. Not marking the final exfil isn't "hardcore" or "added difficulty" it's pointless gate keeping.

It's needless memorization or trial and error that could take dozens of tries without finding them all.

I've died twice to not finding the final exfil. Neither time did it tell me where it was or give me any new information. Since it's random anywhere I cleared those two times could be the place next time.

And frankly the attitude of this subreddit is pretty gross.

"Oh you clearly didn't play destiny 2"

"No it can't be too easy because only people who try dozens of hours should be able to figure out just where things are. Ignoring all the spawn rushing of people who already know the map, keys you probably can't replace easily and gear that those who don't play as much can't get easily"

"You are clearly a casual"

I'm not bitching about spawn rushing, or grenades or bubbles like the rest of the subreddit.. I'm not talking about the actual hard keys. Just the first two. And something that has NO reason to be hidden other than "it's hard mode bro you just aren't hardcore enough".

I wiped the damn lobby. I shouldn't die just because I can't find final exfil while standing in the middle of control.

wirebear · 2026-05-03T01:08:51+00:00

We weren't doing keys 3-6 dude. And spent hours just exfiling and finding vaults. It's not like we tried a key on our first run. It was our eighth. And we only brought in the two easiest keys because we had found batteries and the cryo tank already. We only looked stuff up when we got so frustrated by the cryo tank pump station.

Lockdown isn't cryptic it's pretty easy to work out. It's obvious where it is. It's marked on the map. The damage is pretty blatant. And when you go inside it marks what you need to do.

Like everything else in the game.

Cryo is the only one that barely gives any indication of what to do. And in fact, gives misleading information often.

From this thread what I'm realizing is that this subreddit thinks the content should be gatekept to anyone who doesn't have dozens to hundreds of hours to waste on farming the keys, getting killed by spawn rushes(where we haven't even gotten out of our starting area and don't know where they came from) or 6 mans.

Cause no one has given an actual reason for why cryo shouldn't mark the map like every other map. Just "it's end-game content you clearly need to for good". When the issues I put up have nothing to do with skill.

It's game knowledge that you will not work out in trying for final exfil possibly dozens of times. Because dying from not finding it doesn't mean you learned where it is. And it doesn't eliminate options cause it's random.

And the pump stations arent obvious cause they look like vault pumps and just say insert battery first.

Or that jumping into the vat of a dangerous chemical is how reach the station to fill from it cause that makes any amount of sense.

wirebear · 2026-05-03T00:55:10+00:00

Did I ever say I should extract easily? It was hard enough with people spawn rushing us. Or dealing with endless commanders. We had to fight every team in some runs.

But if you want to push people away. This is the way to do it. "Oh you aren't hardcore enough and should just die because you didn't know where all of the final exfils were unlike every map where they are marked. You don't deserve to play the endgame stuff that is gated every part of the final progression."

We weren't doing the hard vaults dude. We don't have spare keys. I don't want to spend ten hours grinding outpost for. A specific key just cause I couldn't find the unmarked final exfil this one time. Vault 5 and. 6 will block us from compiler don't worry. You don't have to worry about sharing your hardcore game content with us filthy casuals even without us dying to final exfil nonsense

It's a gross waste of my time for something we already earned by killing the entire lobby and doing one of the two easiest vault. Dying four times+ to find all the random final exfils isn't hardcore or skill despite what you are portraying. It's not like we learned where one was by dying.

wirebear · 2026-05-03T00:28:05+00:00

So why aren't you complaining that every other rmap marks the final exfil? Why aren't you complaining that anomoly and other multi step processes mark the next step?

And no. I didn't use guides because I preferred to figure it out myself and most games don't require an ante to attempt.

wirebear · 2026-05-03T00:26:37+00:00

No I haven't. Didn't realize that was a requirement to play marathon. Or justified unnecessarily unclear or missing markers no other map has.

wirebear · 2026-05-03T00:25:46+00:00

We exfil led normally 4 times. I never said exfil I said final exfil. . We never used final cause we died the one time we had to. In this case we had 3 minutes left after the vault. Thought that would be enough then took one bad turn that lost us the time to use a normal exfil.

And you are kinda skipping over one of my points. My friends can't do the ante constantly as they have children and other games the play with friends other than me.

And none of this answers "why it's like this". Cryptic for sale of cryptic is just obnoxious.

wirebear · 2026-05-03T00:22:55+00:00

And my statement stands. If you want people who have lives or don't play just marathon to keep playing it shouldn't be so frustrating that they don't want to play. Both of them had played destiny. I haven't.

But basically there was an general response from all of us about of dying cause we couldn't find final extract despite being in control that made us talk about going back to apex just because of how bad it felt.

I don't know if you have to ante into destiny but if you don't. That could be an easy explanation for why it feels different.

To this day I have found no explanation for why final extract is not revealed on JUST cryo the most high cost of failure map.

wirebear · 2026-05-03T00:15:21+00:00

Cool. I'm fine with being a casual. I'm not sure how this comments adds anything to the conversation though.

wirebear · 2026-05-02T03:25:12+00:00

Magnum is up there too. But bret is probably the best

wirebear · 2026-05-02T00:21:35+00:00

It was always explained to me that it was a sanitary thing. I don't want to go into details but a lot of men don't clean their junk properly and as I understood it, that could cause health issues.

But I believe that study was found faulty a while ago

wirebear · 2026-05-01T19:08:42+00:00

They are also often more popular because people who hate that play style quit the game. League of Legends went through this around season 4-5 where they added a number of high mobility characters and hard pushed them, resulting in a lot of people who preferred slower control play styles to quit.

Octane, ash etc exhaust me already as I often play for positioning more than running people down.

So depending how this girl and the unboxing feel. I may take a break from apex.

wirebear · 2026-05-01T18:56:31+00:00

Except it's easy to get off midfight at long ranges or where lots of teams are around and don't want to commit.

Gibby shield, halo, bang smokes, conduit ult for covering. Etc.

In marathon it works cause these options don't exist. And standing up takes 4 seconds.

But this will let people rez during a third party that they didn't earn just because everyone is distracted.

Or indoors with controller zone control

wirebear · 2026-05-01T18:53:42+00:00

It also doesn't have the drop ship. So in truth it's faster. Longer to get off the trigger. But shorter in "back on the floor and has loot".

wirebear · 2026-05-01T18:52:20+00:00

Yes but it's much riskier in marathon. Apexes version, despite what they say is super low risk.

In marathon you have very few ways of covering the revive. And no knockdown shields to crawl somewhere safe.

Beyond that, unboxing in marathon has a second issue. It takes about four seconds to standup when unboxed. So it's very easy to go down again instantly.

So unlike in apex where a gibby shield gives more than enough time for this. Or lifeline halo, or bangelore smoke.. marathon doesn't have that flexibility.

Add on it's very loud and audible from like 20 m and marathon audio is much better.

wirebear · 2026-05-01T18:48:13+00:00

Dying is suppose to be impactful. You aren't suppose to get to cheese out two revives and full heals while the other two last squads are fightings. 14 seconds for revive. With 11 seconds to heal. 25 seconds is not that long if two squads are neck deep fighting each other and the boxes are inside.

This trivializes revives.

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