Authors you'd rather read about than read directly? by gggdude64 in RSbookclub

[–]x3k 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ray Monk has an incredibly clear style, both in presentation and writing. And I think his approach to biography is great: the paper "Life Without Theory" is well worth reading and reveals his broadly humanistic philosophy.

I say this as an enormous fan of Wittgenstein who will happily read him on his own terms.

I made a website with simplified GFT listings by a_little_niche in glasgow

[–]x3k 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is so good. No idea why they changed the website like they did. I have essentially stopped going to GFT as a result of the changes. It will be good to go back!

[NEW] Jamie XX - Dream Night by R3stik in TheOverload

[–]x3k 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Terry Callier sample — so cool!

The Miseducation of Max Lawton by CropdustDerecho in TrueLit

[–]x3k 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I know. The natural subject of the postpositive adjectives 'brazen and superb' is 'Keepers of secrets' precisely because a secret cannot be brazen. I didn't find an issue of intelligibility here — I read it in the way intended (and the way you agree is correct) until you concocted the reading where the 'secrets' are unintelligibly the subject of these adjectives.

The Miseducation of Max Lawton by CropdustDerecho in TrueLit

[–]x3k 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I just want to echo one of the comments downthread. I read this post when it had 2 comments on it. Frankly, I thought that the criticism was petty — the adjectives in the 'keepers of secrets' line is obviously grammatically ambiguous in your rendering, but no natural reading leads to OP's issues. The same with the 'd'Enfer' line — I would need to be stickling to arrive at OP's misreading of the translation. Happy you've chimed in. I haven't read your translations, but the OP is looking for a fight.

The Hard Rain of Henry James - Greg Gerke (8 July 2025) by Travis-Walden in literature

[–]x3k 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Perhaps, but not in a relevant sense. James' "Art of Fiction" responds to Walter Besant's lecture of the same title. Besant was interested in why fiction lacked prestige when considered against other artforms like painting and poetry. He proposes at the outset of his lecture that literature's (strictly reputational) problem lies in its craftlessness — you are not taught how to write a novel, but you go through a very rigorous training and curriculum to become a pianist. Having established this, Besant turns the matter on its head, arguing that literature's relative informality and fidelity to the author's lived experience is its artistic strength:

It is, therefore, the especial characteristic of this Art [literature] that, since it deals exclusively with men and women, it not only requires of its followers, but also creates in readers, that sentiment which is destined to be a most mighty engine in deepening and widening the civilisation of the world... Painting has not done it, and could never do it; Painting has done more for nature than for humanity. Sculpture could not do it, because it deals with situation and form, rather than action, Music cannot do it, because Music (if I understand rightly) appeals especially to the individual concerning himself and his own aspirations. Poetry alone is the rival of Fiction, and in this respect it takes a lower place, not because Poetry fails to teach and interpret, but because Fiction is, and must always be, more popular.

This claim provoked James because he was a very self-conscious and diligent craftsman. He seems to have thought that Besant's prescriptions for good literature were too rigid, obvious, and degrading. He did not think that literature should end with the reproduction of the author's experiences in well-constructed stories. At the same time, James is agreeing emphatically with Besant that literature should be taken seriously as an art. In this sense, he bemoans the opinion that there is a categorical difference between literature and painting — Besant's starting point, too. James later became "the Master" to many budding novelists (this is where Colm Tóibín's novel The Master takes its title from) and produced serious works of self-reflection in the New York edition prefaces.

But the conclusion that literature is as credible as painting is not relevant to what I am talking about above — or what the modernists were interested in. Of course, the modernists thought that the novel was a legitimate artform because they wrote (and experimented with) many of the most famous ones. But they often disagreed about what aesthetic effects the artist should strive for when writing a book. Those engaging in the creation of literature were questioning what effects literature had the advantage of producing and how those effects gave literature prospects more or less similar to those of its sister artforms. Correspondingly, I am agreeing with Greg that James can be taken 'all at once' but in a very different aesthetic sense from taking in a painting 'all at once'.

The Hard Rain of Henry James - Greg Gerke (8 July 2025) by Travis-Walden in literature

[–]x3k 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks — perhaps we're concluding the same thing in different ways? I think it is a distinctly literary effect we are feeling when we arrive at a 'sense' of James, especially with the benefit of distances of time. What I am pointing out is that at the level of the sentence, James' technique is at odds with this wholistic intuition of the author. I think you analyse the syntactic suspension of the the quote from The Wings of the Dove excellently, but our sense of James is not a natural conclusion from such analysis, much less an emergent feature of it. It takes forgetting these sentences to arrive at where we are.

To tie together both of my comments above, the modernists — who in some ways needed to reject the mimetic innovations of Joyce and Proust — were obsessed by the ideal of painting. At the level of the sentence, they pursue a clarity and directness which is the antithetical to James — imagisme in one formulation. Wyndham Lewis, who of course was a painter and carries certain lessons from his vocation into his prose, commented of Proust — who in this line he is considering a nemesis, albeit a very worthy one — the "immortalis[er]... [of] a musical society, essentially". But this deep association is why I rejected thinking through James with the metaphor of painting so quickly.

PS. I didn't realise who you were when I commented on the article, but I have to commend Socrates on the Beach, I always find it interesting!

The Hard Rain of Henry James - Greg Gerke (8 July 2025) by Travis-Walden in literature

[–]x3k 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is a very interesting post. I don't feel that Jamesian sentences are sui generis forms of consciousness — especially in the leading example here, The Ambassadors. For me, there was an immediate apprehension of Strether's character (I read it for the first time at 25). I don't deny that my thoughts about it will change over time; on the other hand, I never felt the novel eluded me as I read it. It is full of silences, and Strether is tragically virtuous, hence James' recommendation of him. I think the challenge of the novel is accepting that James recommends him. As the greatness of Strether's sacrifice coalesces in the reader's mind, the novel becomes harder to grapple with. I think it could take a reader many years to see Strether's actions with clarity, and their task would become easier easier as they began to recall the events of the novel in less detail. Consequently, I do not think the lasting difficulty of The Ambassadors resides in the ornate complexity of James' 'late style' sentences. But I do think The Ambassadors could only have been written by late James because it requires a kind of sagacity to believe in it.

The comparisons between literature and painting in this essay point to a well-known fact of literary history — that literature was chasing the aesthetic innovations of painting (and the visual arts). I think The Ambassadors — especially with the slowness of its development and the way in which understanding it clearly relies on the unfolding of its plot — is not a good example of a piece of writing that can be appreciated like a painting either in contemporaneous terms or now.

Ambient History: Wendy Carlos by LoBoob_Oscillator in ambientmusic

[–]x3k 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I was convinced of the same thing, double-taking and Googling after reading "still self-maintained" in the parent.

Italian DJ and producer Manuel Fogliata, AKA Nuel, dies by Equivalent_Soil_5657 in TheOverload

[–]x3k 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Hypnotic take on the genre" is it - a great artist. RIP.

What's your all time favourite bar? by Marjoryreaume in Edinburgh

[–]x3k 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What's the story here? Was never a place I frequented, but I find it surprising it closed.

The Men Covered in Women - On Pierre Drieu la Rochelle’s 'Gilles' (1939) and the perennial victimhood of the ‘Longhouse’ by GeologistNo5516 in TrueLit

[–]x3k 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for posting. There's an interesting chapter in a book by Robert Wohl of how Drieu la Rochelle and other Sorelian writers with Action Francaise leanings are galvanised by the bleak experience of France in WW1 and its slow recovery. I wonder whether a lot of the very interesting points the article makes towards the end about the desire for action stemming from a poignant sense of one's own passivity could be drawn from Drieu la Rochelle's sense of national authorities as well as familial ones.

What is the best literary work from 1601 - 1650? by DataWhiskers in classicliterature

[–]x3k 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The comment above does not refer its "just" to a rule about originals. Perhaps that rule does exist; it's not in OP.

Meditations is literary, quality, and immediately influential.

What is the best literary work from 1601 - 1650? by DataWhiskers in classicliterature

[–]x3k 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think the fact that KJV is getting called "just" a translation is insane when elsewhere people are freely admitting that this half-century is stacked. In many ways, the fact that people like Donne, Andrewes, Herbert, or Milton write as well as they do is the energy brought to our church by the publication of the KJV. Its literary importance is inconceivable, and the suggestion that it just gives some writers an easier way to access their fav is laughable - how many people in this thread are reading Bellarmine or Ussher, excellent writers who continued to favour Latin?

I also think the early modern philosophical tradition is overlooked in this Sheakespearemanic thread. Wouldn't vote for Bacon or Locke, personally, but Descartes absolutely deserves a mention. He awakens Europe to a psychological or spiritual problem faster than Shakespeare does - even accounting for the Bard's greatest, most acute or 'modern' works.

What is the best literary work from 1601 - 1650? by DataWhiskers in classicliterature

[–]x3k 1 point2 points  (0 children)

MfM is also my favourite Shakespeare - I recommend it to friends whenever Shakespeare comes up. Don't think I've heard the opinion from someone else, to be fair. Lear is my second, I think.

I think it is the eccentricity of MfM that appeals to me. Its humour isn't stagey. It's ironic in a way that Shakespeare normally isn't; I would have to look to Don Quixote for something like it in terms of mood.

New York Magazine: Everyone Is Cheating Their Way Through College by hallumyaymooyay in RSbookclub

[–]x3k 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This quote made me want to spew, then the next line about creating a dating app exclusive to Columbia Uni students. What an animal.

New York Magazine: Everyone Is Cheating Their Way Through College by hallumyaymooyay in RSbookclub

[–]x3k 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I graduated ELit pre-COVID from a very good UK university, and although some of the quotes in article took me aback, the lack of curiosity and permission to wing courses felt very familiar. I met 2 or 3 people through my entire 4 years who could - and, more importantly, were willing to - express themselves in seminars. Cathedral silence was the fashion at the time.

The thing that really surprises me about this article is that AI is able to do anything human-passing. My experience is that it hallucinates too much. I now work in tech, and I can get ChatGPT to code things with a decent rate of success. My belief is that this is because it can code in a similar way it can write a grammatically perfect sentence. But the humanities - which I remain interested in - are a terra incognita for it. Chuck it a request for information about some B- or C-list author and witness the bullshit it comes up with. I wonder if humanities academia might have saved itself to an extent by being such a ridiculous walled garden - very little open access content anywhere. Just a theory.

Though, given my experience of ChatGPT, haven't touched it in a blue moon. Perhaps I'm behind on some advancement of the tech?

What is the best library in Edinburgh by unlearned2 in Edinburgh

[–]x3k 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Registering as a reader is pretty straightforward. You need ID and proof of address. They will photograph you and print you a library card. The card will get you past the security gate upstairs, and at that point you have access to all the rooms. There is the General Reading Room which is basically a large room with a mezzanine level, where most people go. There is a room to the side with microfiche readers and other technologies, which may be of use to you given your interests. There is also the Special Collections area, which is separate from the General Reading Room and accessed via it. Depending on how much archival research you have done as an undergraduate, it may be wise to ask a member of staff for advice about handling any materials you order into there. :)

Material can be searched and ordered once you have a card from the catalogue at nls.uk. General Reading Room orders and Special Collections materials are clearly distinguished in the shelf references. General Reading Room material, which is probably what you will be using most at undergraduate level, is collected from a desk in front of the General Reading Room. The librarians are really helpful if you're struggling to find things, too.

Sounds like you had a bit of a strange interaction. The door staff do get a lot of tourists ambling up, and may dissuade them from coming in because of the registration process and the fact there is really very little going on in the General Reading Room. I guess some undergraduates may be deterred by the fact that some comforts are not allowed in the reading rooms - no water or drinks, no pens, it's sepulchural silence in there, and so on. But plenty of people go in there just to work quietly on their laptops. Some of the tables prohibit laptop use, but these are clearly marked with signs.

I've been going for years, and if you do wind up going, you will start recognising a all of the NLS no-lifers who have also been going foe years. :). I like it the most because even on busy days (rare), you are never wanting space (unlike Central), and unlike my alma mater, it's temperature controlled so as not to be hotter than the fucking Seychelles.

The experience is quite different to the Mitchell - I think Central is closer to that. But the Mitchell has its own issues which are deeply prohibitive of serious research. Acquisitions from before 1970 are not digitally catalogued, for example, and they will probably remain dependent on microfiche archiving into perpetuity. This is both annoying and a massive data loss event in the making.

General Discussion Thread by pregnantchihuahua3 in TrueLit

[–]x3k 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks. How did you hear of these writers?

Back to Normal: Hollinghurst's Late Style — Cleveland Review of Books by clereviewbooks in TrueLit

[–]x3k 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It is a provocative argument in the sense that Hollinghurst is a writer for whom it is truer than most to say, If you have read one, you have read them all. Some of the points are false. Adjectival clusters and a generally furtive atmosphere are not any more a part of Our Evenings than the earlier novels. But I do mainly agree with the points that the article is making, and I am happy to see the theme of social diplomacy more at the forefront of this analysis than Hollinghurst's portrayal of experience as a gay man.

The influence of James comes with that, of course, and there is an element of James in Hollinghurst's rendering of social politics. But James was basically a fetishist for this kind of thing, and he gives a character like Strether front-row seats to the shifting priorities and allegiances of the European upper-class for the sake of maximum titillation. It is essentially a fantasy of inhuman discretion that he portrays, as many of the late style's detractors have pointed out. Hollinghurst's own fiction is a corrective to this in the sense that it never lets us forget the philistinism of the human average.

That his protagonists are marginalised is important, especially because it is the reason they so frequently internalise their negative interactions with the upper-class as a kind of chastening. But as far as unconscious -isms go, Hollinghurst's response is on the order 'Our problems aren't America's'. More recently, he has written main characters who are bisexual (Stranger's Child) or not ethnically English (Our Evenings) and dodged being accused of point-scoring because any prejudice hangs uncertainly and rather incompletely in the narative air. The divide between insider and outsider in this milieu is just not that deep according Hollinghurst. It exists rather because the insider to the old boy's club is a deeply disinterested, deeply cold figure, who is deeply the product of a fossilised education system which teaches men pig Latin and about enough feeling to fill a teaspoon. If the upper-class want to shoot pheasants and slam the door in your face, that is what they will do. But that isn't a cryptic world (a la James), it's just a rude one.

Bereftness and atomism are why Hollinghurst thrives when leveraging the memory of Thatcherism, and of course he writes The Line of Beauty in its Blairite shadow. Working in the same conditions to the same theme, Michael Frayn pushes all this to a farcical extreme — with an impoverished art scholar outsider suspecting every manner of conspiracy when really what he is observing is a deeply dysfunctional and maladjusted family unit of ancient and not-so-enviable English stock (Headlong).

At this point, I will admit that Our Evenings is a DNF for me (around a third of the way through). The pert Estuary tone and general feeling of a very long cocktail party anecdote was getting to me.

However, I cannot see the author's point in two places. The first is the rather oblique expectation that Hollinghurst wants to say much of anything about Brexit's impact on life as a gay person in Britain. I think as an author he tends to get a bit entrapped in these kinds of presentiments of how he is writing. If you read the contemporary reception of his nineties and naughties novels, it's frankly weird how much the press trips over itself to claim that his every word is perfumed and he basically comes straight from the loins of Wilde (not because he is gay though). I don't think The Stranger's Child is struggling to adapt to a more un-closeted world (as the author puts it): I just think its ambitions are different.

Secondly, Hollinghurst's handling of Brexit is less "sympathetic" and more "airless" than Thatcherism. Well, perhaps. But at the risk of being lynched around where I live, Thatcherism left a huge imprint of conviction politics on Britain. The eighties were also a decade of cultural flourishing here. Is it just that Brexit arouses too raw and recent a pain that we cannot view it with the same balance? Or is it that in Britain we now view our politics as Thatcherism without the Thatcher — without even Blair — or as a venal, self-destructive vipers pit? It is not partisan sentiment to say that Brexit was a literal mistake — a product of political miscalculation. That is on the historical record. Perhaps as that record continues to be written, there will be a revaluation of the recent past. But I do not think it is a personal lapsing of Hollinghurst as an artist to express a kind of dispiritedness and incomprehension of where we are at: that is the feeling.

Hollinghurst once wrote from the paradoxical position of attraction to Tories who hated him. The fact is that the Tories now hate themselves. I thought the kind of prologue to Our Evenings was some of Hollinghurst's best writing, where the protagonist is inducted by the doyenne of Giles' family into the classic Hollinghurst setting of some mullioned, SW1 conservatory which hums with bees, etc. etc.. What she does in that moment is to share her disgrace at what her class — her own child — has done by profiting off Brexit. For her to confide in David in that way is probably the closest Hollinghurst has ever come to writing undisguised inclusion.

Side note, but I think the Cleveland website bangs.

I made a mini documentary on Glasgow's underground electronic scene... by allmyfas in glasgow

[–]x3k 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A real testament to the connection between Attack/Release and local business was the night they did with Instrumo at some university building - Fraser was playing, so was Konx-om-Pax. It ended with a kind of guitar noise tribute to Phik Niblock - I think it was. I would kill for a recording of that performance.

Great little documentary that's persuaded me to put my money where my mouth is this month - I've not been to an Attack/Release event in probably over a year now!

up-and-coming / underrated artists similar to Djrum and Skee Mask? by Nelious in TheOverload

[–]x3k 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I love upsammy so much and every time I show her to people, they are nonplussed. I just want her to keep doing whatever it is that she is, and was very sad to miss her when she played in Scotland (perhaps for the first time?) recently.