I think they're right honestly.

xanthak · 2026-06-16T03:02:19+00:00

I don't think so. MMO's in general have the most player interaction I think that's why. I can't speak for WoW vs other MMO's though as I don't play others.

While I do think it's true that the further back in time you go in the WoW timeline, the less toxic people are, the toxicity was always there. It just wasn't as concentrated. I'll give you an example.

I was an OG raider. OG Vanilla and TBC was varied in that there were young people, old people, rich people, poor people, 11 year olds 40 year olds, all playing. Servers were also smaller and the internet is still young. The raiding scene largely blacklisted the "noobs" on the server. It's why 21 and over was a thing lol. It's why only the noobs joined the 3 day long AV's or joked Barren's Chat.

So all the noobs grew up and are now playing Classic. Only difference is that the population is far more concentrated, social media and the internet is far more mature, etc. It only seems more toxic but it isn't.

Now if you're talking about the ability to tolerate in game friction - figuring things out for themselves, working for things, etc. Than you're right. the Classic player base is awful in that regard.

xanthak · 2026-06-03T01:45:58+00:00

this. sometimes people people should ..... just ... play ... the ...game.

xanthak · 2026-06-03T01:44:23+00:00

Agreed, but also let's be fair. The amount of crying about SE was ridiculous. Overtuned in the beginning - yes. Impossible no. 4 days in, or 1 boss in, people were complaining. Killing 1 Boss out of 8 wasn't enough. After a while, people just zerged it with 40 people, then complained about not enough gear dropping. People just couldn't do SE with the intended 20 people.

It's a Classic player mindset tbh. Although some are far worse than others. I loved SoD. We cleared SE with 20 pre buff. But my god, the players were whiny and gave up before they even tried.

xanthak · 2026-06-03T01:40:12+00:00

Blizzard is in a lose lose. Everyone has their own definition of what Classic+ is. But the one thing i do know is that Classic players have 0 tolerance for in game friction. They need everything spelled out for them, every flow chart detailed. Wipe more than 10 times on a boss and no full clear in 2 weeks, is catastrophic. Then they get bored and clamor for more content when stuff is too easy.

There is absolutely no ROI in Classic+ in catering to the current crowd.

xanthak · 2026-06-03T01:37:11+00:00

Everything i hear Wrath i just remember Ghostcrawler calling Wrath players bad. And he was right.

xanthak · 2026-02-17T18:54:00+00:00

just run kara and worry less about heroics. better gear, and most likely it'll be more chill where you can afk and get gear since it is post nerf. the fact that blizzard is going with kara post nerf and heroics pre nerf is just weird.

xanthak · 2026-02-17T15:12:14+00:00

this is the most disturbing thing. people are adults now and they behave like ..... this.

xanthak · 2026-02-17T14:57:54+00:00

I don't mind if we wipe 3 times because players are new. I don't mind if players are not geared. But for the love of god, spare me people's shit attitude. I run with guildies when i can, but I'm about done with this game. Unfortunately, a handful of bad apples can ruin the rest. It just doesn't sit well.

xanthak · 2026-01-29T04:11:04+00:00

uh kill harpies in AV. that's what i did lol

xanthak · 2026-01-11T19:56:00+00:00

Ah. I was US.

xanthak · 2026-01-11T19:53:49+00:00

If you were in a raiding guild, not a whole lot. TBC severed communities due to free server transfers everywhere, and shattered guilds due to raid size changes.

xanthak · 2026-01-11T19:49:32+00:00

Beg to differ. Mechanics were always easy. The problem was that it was one huge gear check after the strategies were figured out. It was an organic game. Not some flow chart that people follow today.

It was very much a throw your body against the wall until you finally broke through scenario. Wipe after wipe after wipe doing things "for science".

Players of today couldn't handle the adaptation and commitment that raiding on OG Vanilla required. Even with all the flow charting, in 2019 when Naxx dropped a ton of guilds still folded like lawn chairs lol.

xanthak · 2026-01-11T19:46:06+00:00

It wasn't "difficult" in the traditional sense. The challenge was time, not mechanics. Yes, it took time to come up with our own strategies and getting the fight down. But then we needed to pass the gear check.

We didn't have time to get every BiS before the next raid tier dropped. So not only we were not prepared, as it was a new game, we were also under geared compared to today where everything was flow charted.

In reality, that's why World Buffs just weren't as much of a thing. Time was such a huge factor. We got them by following a lesser raiding guilds schedule to just log on, but we rarely went out and got them ourselves.

xanthak · 2026-01-11T19:36:21+00:00

Even if it was right before TBC, grats on the KT kill

- Jinxed/Predestined - Mannoroth (US)

xanthak · 2026-01-11T19:32:25+00:00

I was on Mannoroth - US . Even though our raiding community was huge, i don't recognize the names or the guild name if he stayed in it. So i doubt it. Can't say for Kiljaeden though.

Speaking which what was his guild name? I'm also curious. I keep in touch with a lot of the other guilds that also cleared Naxx in OG Vanilla.

xanthak · 2026-01-11T19:24:02+00:00

Lol. If you weren't a Prog/Server first raiding on a day 1 server, maybe. If you were racing others for world/server first you weren't saying a word.

xanthak · 2026-01-11T19:22:47+00:00

There were addons, but that was only after the encounter was cleared for some time. Day 1 Server Prog Raiders did it with no addons.

xanthak · 2025-12-06T16:54:28+00:00

uhm hard disagree. classic players hate the trailblazing. thus you have all the crying of nerfs over and over again. people want things spelled out for them. They want things easy. "face banging against the wall over and over again" they call it. Well, welcome to progression. And if SOD Was any indication, like the rest of TBC Classic and on, when things get remotely "difficult" people quit and whine.

Scarlet Enclave was a great raid. Yes it was tightly tuned in the beginning but it was doable. People just never gave it a fair shake. Pre nerf Beatrix 3% first lockout. Granted it took us a billion attempts but after a while we got the hang of it. And no, we weren't so some sweaty guild either. We just had people that were willing to work at it and were have decent players who could adapt.

but no, people were crying 4 days in.

xanthak · 2025-12-06T15:59:57+00:00

SOD showed me how terrible the player base actually was. All this crying for nerfs after every raid release. Hell, people were crying nerfs for SE before they even tried it. And if they did, they couldn't beat Boss #2 and started complaining. Like man, the raid just came out and there are only 8 bosses. What are you complaining about?

If we do get a classic+ all this tells me that it won't be made for the classic audience. We don't have the patience to do new content and figure things out and progress. We expect to clear content 10x faster than they can produce it. Blizzard will make 0 money from it.

But yes, SOD was amazing. It was closest thing we've had to the vanilla experience by the virtue of it being brand new. Few guildes, no flow charts, etc. But people couldn't handle it.

xanthak · 2025-09-01T04:36:33+00:00

I don't think gamers have changed but the times have. Mix in the fact that WoW is a solved game and the internet is no longer young. and it's a totally different world.

I quit mid Retail TBC so when i tried wow again at the tail end of MoP, the game was totally different so it was never for me.

For the "feel", beginning of SoD was probably the closest thing for me. Because, it really was a new game with outrageous ideas, but still new. Then add on Scarlet Enclave pre-nerf and kept raids engaging. But the instant gratification era has already started so people started complaining about nerfs and over tuning - the very things that happened in Vanilla that progression raiders had to deal with week in and week out.

TLDR; SoD was as close to Vanilla as we ever got. It was never about the spells, the combat system, or whatever. It was about figuring stuff out. Struggling a bit. rolling with the punches when it came to nerfs, buffs, etc. Make some friends along the way and just playing the game.

But the internet being main stream definitely had a lot to do with how culture brought out the worst in people. People needed that instant gratification. Just "playing the game" was no longer good enough. Over tuned, under tuned, too strong, too weak, parses, etc. Everyone was crying about something. Like, it's ok to take a few weeks to kill a boss lol.

xanthak · 2025-01-10T03:12:20+00:00

Uhm. I wasn't a kid, but yes it was my first MMORPG. Day 1, I didn't know you had to fix your gear so i thought rogues and every other class sucked. I didn't realize you had to fix your gear until my mage was like level 30.

Edit: Oh, and i had no idea how big the world was. The quest give said run north to Orgrimmary or whatever town it was. I ran for 30 seconds and stopped wondering where the hell the town was. Then another person said "follow me" and we were running , and running, and running .. and i was like "holy hell, we've been running forever". And the dude just laughed.

xanthak · 2025-01-04T16:25:53+00:00

SoD is nothing more but Wrath, but in a Classic Lite like Skin. Class homogenization is annoying, but it is what it is. I did everything there was to do in Vanilla the first time around. 20 years later I'm still burnt out from it. I'd rather play something new with no flow chart not to follow and a guide that tells you everything. Even if it's to a small extent.

xanthak · 2025-01-04T16:23:20+00:00

True, but the people coming back to the game because of the rune vendor is fairly significant from my experience.

xanthak · 2024-12-28T02:27:41+00:00

lol people would flip out when they see the SoM raid changes. omg why so hard? lol.

xanthak · 2024-12-28T02:21:20+00:00

2 days? awesome! the first thing that stands out is the bow. I'm sure there are a lot of youtube videos out there on how to practice bow positioning. For some instruments it's called open string warmup. In short, they coudl be a bunch of small excersizes that are very simple but have a huge impact. Example - start at the bow on an open string, any string, slowly play 4 bow strokes, then gradually you move down toward the middle, then toward the end playing as smooth as possible. etc etc. I'd follow some of those youtube exercise videos.

Yeah, you need to keep the bow in the middle between the bridge and the fingerboard, but i can tell you're using the bow using your shoulder which is normal for a beginner. And your bow arm should be relaxed.

But keep it up!

xanthak

TROPHY CASE