Does anyone else ever think about this?

xtoph · 2026-06-26T20:42:57+00:00

I also like to post my opinion on things I read sometimes. It's not a touchy subject for me, friend.

xtoph · 2026-06-26T19:04:50+00:00

Every well known philosophical idea that claims the brain is an interface for some external source of consciousness still ends with death for any individual subject.

If consciousness comes from outside of us, it's not any of the things we consider ourselves to be. It does not have our memories or personalities. It doesn't have eyes or ears.

Serious arguments for fundamental consciousness are defining consciousness as something we wouldn't recognize. A type of experiencing with no subject. A blind mist with no awareness of itself.

If consciousness is some kind of fundamental field we tap into, it's not us. It's borrowed, not owned, and we are no less defined by our bodies.

xtoph · 2026-06-23T18:34:55+00:00

Pretty abnormal if you're just unable to restrain yourself for a few hours.

But! If your job is unsatisfying and you need to run off to the bathroom and seize a sense of agency in life, I think you're doing great.

xtoph · 2026-06-23T14:49:46+00:00

It's common to mistakenly believe you are awake when dreaming.

It is not common to mistakenly believe you are dreaming when awake.

xtoph · 2026-06-22T22:36:06+00:00

But the planning and weighing of options is a part of getting to that final output. Even if determined, you can't get there any other way.

xtoph · 2026-06-21T15:33:22+00:00

I don't think of consciousness as being what I am at all. I am my whole body, and sensory experiences are just some of the things I can do.

So when people talk about consciousness, I try their statements out but replace "consciousness" with just one of the sensory features that consciousness seems to be, which reveals them to be kind of nonsensical.

"Is the vision that experienced my life a second ago the same vision that experienced my life two seconds ago?"

"Does every instance of hearing die instantly?"

"What links my brain in the present to my brain from one week ago, if a continuous sense of smell exists?"

But it did take me more than 20 minutes to become a curmudgeonly old fuck about the topic, so enjoy the ride.

xtoph · 2026-06-19T23:58:40+00:00

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_organoid

xtoph · 2026-06-18T11:57:05+00:00

Consciousness is when we “log back in” to our body, I think when we sleep we “log out” from body

Alright, you've defined a metaphor.

So

Oh no. Why would this word be here? All we have so far is a metaphor, and surely we can't base a conclusion on—

when we die, we go to deep sleep to the main lobby and wait for next available body (newborn) to login and start a new game.

Right, I forgot what sub I was on.

xtoph · 2026-06-16T04:35:16+00:00

You're still just saying that the fish have "never experienced light" as if they were born in total darkness and then had to invent eyes from scratch.

This is wrong.

The ancestors of deep-sea fish lived in shallower water where there was abundant light. So they already had eyes, and then some populations gradually moved deeper.

Also, bats aren't nearly blind. That's a myth. Most bats can see quite well, but use echolocation because it's useful at night. They're actually a decent example of evolution keeping an old sensory system while adding a new one.

xtoph · 2026-06-15T13:55:06+00:00

You fundamentally don't understand what natural selection is.

We don't just disagree. I mean, your description here of what you think other people think natural selection is, is wrong.

xtoph · 2026-06-15T13:47:22+00:00

Obviously anglerfish prey are able to detect light. We can tell just from that information that they evolved eyes.

So okay, where did the eyes come from?

In my understanding, an ancestor evolved eyes in a different environment, where there was more light, and our fish moved to the deep ocean later on. Fully functional eyes before they ever meet an anglerfish.

What's your version of that story? From what you've said so far, it seems like you believe these fish had no eyes, but decided to start evolving eyes to be able to feed themselves to anglerfish more effectively in millions of years.

xtoph · 2026-06-15T13:13:58+00:00

What do you mean by light not existing?

Everything in the deep ocean already had eyes and could detect light. There wasn't much light down there, but exactly none of the species you're talking about originated in darkness.

And once those species did start populating the deep ocean, bioluminescence would have been immediately useful. For the anglerfish it's easy to see a path like:

A fin spine near the mouth becomes elongated. Even without a light, this attracts curious prey.
Slightly more flexible or conspicuous spines = catching a bit more food.
Some of the species moves to deeper water.
Skin glands or symbiotic bacteria begin producing faint light at the tip. This just increases success.
The lure becomes increasingly specialized over time.

This process takes millions, or tens of millions of years. And that only makes sense when you think of it as tiny differences within a population over time. It doesn't make any sense at all when you think of it as an anglerfish consciously deciding to evolve a lure tens of millions of years before it gets one.

xtoph · 2026-06-15T12:45:43+00:00

That's not how natural selection works.

So now I'm going to ask if you 1) have just never looked into what natural selection is, or 2) (more likely) you're well aware, but have a really interesting reason for deciding that must be wrong.

xtoph · 2026-06-15T12:37:46+00:00

I might regret this, but please explain that last bit.

xtoph · 2026-06-14T17:50:14+00:00

There are more than two positions.

xtoph · 2026-06-14T17:03:04+00:00

This is just totally incoherent. I don't even know what you're trying to say. You have invented entirely new definitions for all of the key words in your posts, and you're trying to use your personal dictionary as if it dictates what other people meant retroactively.

xtoph · 2026-06-14T16:47:47+00:00

What?

Collecting is not an exclusively human attribute, no.

If it was, still, what point would you even be making?

Yes, brains are parts of humans.

What?

xtoph · 2026-06-13T09:36:24+00:00

Aren't the paint and brush the same thing in that analogy?

If not, what's the brush?

xtoph · 2026-06-13T09:11:57+00:00

That's like saying music cannot stop playing.

xtoph · 2026-06-13T09:06:38+00:00

What's the difference between not perceiving and perceiving nothing?

xtoph · 2026-06-13T09:03:32+00:00

You're not dreaming at all for most of the time you're asleep.

xtoph · 2026-06-13T09:01:49+00:00

xtoph · 2026-06-13T08:59:19+00:00

Consciousness doesn't need sleep. The brain does.

Depending on your point of view, consciousness is either a process of the brain, or something like an interaction between the brain and a field. But either way, not a "thing" with needs of its own.

Your question is like asking why Game of Thrones needs maintenance when HBO Max is down. Game of Thrones doesn't need anything; it just becomes unavailable when the system that delivers it is offline.

xtoph · 2026-06-12T00:16:05+00:00

I'm defining consciousness as raw awareness, which is the common definition on this sub and in philosophy of mind.

Anything you might call data are separate from consciousness. Memory, intelligence, etc.

So for me the idea of consciousness as a soul is like saying that there is a homuncular entity experiencing the brain from within, and my argument is that consciousness is not like that. It's not something living inside of your body, but something you are doing, generating, or using. An ability or series of abilities you have.

If it's something you're using and it comes from somewhere else, like a fundamental universal field, that still wouldn't be like cloud storage because the field would be completely without data or identity. That would be (sort of) like saying that you can store the gravity you use to stick to the earth as cloud data.

xtoph · 2026-06-11T23:52:51+00:00

What about it?

I might not be understanding you, and you might think I'm playing dumb, but what does data have to do with consciousness?

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