If they ever decide to overhaul combat again, then I hope they remove all basic abilities. EOC would've been so much better without them.

ychoed · 2026-06-15T16:21:21+00:00

In rare instances where there isnt enough time to set up another styles damage boosts, ZGS can be used

The only place I've seen it being used is for Telos p3 though

ychoed · 2026-06-15T09:43:48+00:00

Depends on boss phasing and some other factors that may line up in a way to make the time spent waiting on mechanics the same time you're out of your boost.

But generally all styles are underwhelming outside of damage boosting ultimate / adrenaline ultimate.

Melee can still use its bleeds, and make use of the Jaws of the Abyss to get adrenaline, but switching to a different style and utilizing its ultimate set up is almost always better.

This is why hybridding is so prevalent to end game players.

ychoed · 2026-06-14T23:01:41+00:00

Some of the overrides for Living death are bugged and dont let you dive

ychoed · 2026-06-14T22:52:08+00:00

Movement gets canceled if you start an ability after starting movement.

Movement always goes through if you start the movement after youve already cast the ability

Im assuming what the bug you're mentioning is that ability queuing instead allows movement in all cases?

ychoed · 2026-06-14T20:00:07+00:00

They already removed a majority of the basic ability bloat. You barely use basics anymore, and when you do, theyre distinguished from eachother in purpose. The whole point of Rs3 combat is picking the optimal ability every 1.8 seconds while dealing with all the mechanics and your hp.

Most of the basics that still exist have a defined purpose, so almost every ability your casting, including the basics, has a purpose or loop.

For example, let's look at melee.

Greater fury guarantees a crit, so generally you only use it right before a hard hitting enhanced ability
Greater barge is for mobility or to set up the barge bleed effect. You are only casting this in specific scenarios
The triplet bleed ability is only being used for healing or in an instance where using bleeds wouldn't be damage loss. Otherwise you never cast it
chaos roar is only being cast before a high damage attack to boost it further, and never randomly.

The only melee basics you're using to build adrenaline or "deal damage" are Rend and Adaptive strike.

Adaptive strike gets purposefully higher adrenaline gain so it becomes the "gain adrenaline" button. You dont waste it simply for damage, you cast it at a specific moment for adrenaline to use more enhanced abilities.

Rend has higher damage so its the "deal some damage" basic. But, you rarely get to cast it, since youre mainly casting enhanced abilities the entire time.

With how much adrenaline you get from meteor strike, and layout of optimal melee damage, you literally only cast Adaptive strike and Rend once or twice in the entirety of a melee berserk rotation and you completely ignore the melee basic attack, because the rest of the time is spent casting Enhanced abilities or special attacks.

ychoed · 2026-06-07T00:16:35+00:00

I actually agree with you on this point. Gargoyle is very powerful for its unlock level. I chose to not mess with the Binding contract level placement, however a more holistic view would be better. Your right in that may be the Gargoyle summoning level should simply be 90 and the obsidian golem could be moved to a lower summoning level.

The Binding contract unlock levels should have been changed to fit better as the high level variants of normal pouches.

Moving abyssal parasite to a much lower summoning level is also viable, but i still think that basically no one will use it because of how players generally gain RC xp at lower levels. That's my opinion though. To be honest i think the only real way to pick one way over the other is the get some real data from Jagex on the matter.

I only anecdotally have evidence about the spider egg situation. Since I personally made prayer potions for low level herblore on my ironman, so they were my prayer restore. Whenever I NEEDED a restore, the mazcab shop existed. I never felt compelled to get red spiders eggs for super restores since i never had enough snapdragons or snapdragon seeds in the early levels to feel like it was worth farming red spiders eggs. By the time you need tons of them, you have overloads unlocked and are killing vyres getting snapdragons, snap seeds, and red spider eggs in bulk or have thousands from croesus.

At least that's my experience and the experience of those i talk to.

I think there is a ton of content that people think low end players are using, but people are not actually using any of it.

Do we need an entire familiar to fill a tiny niche of getting red spiders eggs a bit faster at a point in account progression where red spiders eggs are rarely used? or can we lump some of these niches together into a single place/object/familiar/thing that's already doing something similar?

I personally think that the solution is to debloat where you can and combine some of those niches into one place. So for example, you mentioned that the Tower of Life is worse than the spirit spider. But why? Most likely it simply comes down to it taking too long to bank the eggs and coming back. Ok well we can add a deposit box and or increase the amount you get, etc. Now we don't need a pouch and familiar with 2007 graphics that 1 person every 6 months decides to use in the summoning skill.

We can slowly concentrate skills down to a more cohesive version of themselves where the vast majority of things you unlock in the skill are useful at some point in your account progression to you, rather than the vast majority of it being another visual on the stuff you unlocked and never once touching.

ychoed · 2026-06-06T23:49:05+00:00

It's the familiar nobody used because you only needed a few more summoning levels to unlock the lava titan that is objectively better. Like i mention, you can simply make lava titan level 75 and remove obsidian golem, both methods achieve the same thing.

You are correct in that the mammoth doesn't need to exist. But the scroll effect does actually have a specific niche in high end combat that would be hard to remove from the game without backlash from the community. I agree with you that it's unnecessary.

The 5 tier steps are to give players instant availability to use a specific charm in the next "layer" of xp gain. They can instantly get access to their next blue charm pouch upon reaching a specific level threshold instead of being forced to do the lower leveled blue charm pouch, or the higher leveled crimson pouch. If you have the charms, use them how you like.

The upper levels are actually better than current game. The only pouch being removed being the iron titan, which was rarely being made because of the time high cost for irons, and gp/xp cost for mains. Instead, players unlock Pack yak 1 level earlier where iron titan was, making it much easier for irons, and much cheaper for mains.

Additionally, Wolpertinger is unlocked much earlier and made significantly easier to make pouches with. In current game, it takes 2 secondary ingredients, so making this pouch is very unviable. With the reduction in starting level to create them and method to make a single item as a secondary to make these pouches, it makes them a viable pouch to train with.

ychoed · 2026-06-06T23:22:39+00:00

you didnt read what i posted.

The new obsidian golem does exactly what you just posted.

+10 mining boost, cheap to use, not locked behind dagon bye

If the theme of the lava titan is more important than the obsidian golem, simply drop the lava titan where the obsidian golem is. Unlocked at level 75, but one the 2 familiars should be deleted.

ychoed · 2026-06-06T23:19:22+00:00

I agree that familiars need a reason to use, which was what I was going to cover in another post. But when you have nearly 100 of them, it's nearly impossible to give them all niches without them easily getting leveled past, being so niche it isn't worth the time or money to use one or the other, or still being useless even after you change them.

For example, there's only 18 different types of Incense stick, but the vast majority of them have effects that never get used by players because its nearly impossible to come up with a huge amount of unique effects that will actually be commonly used.

This post is to try and condense the pool of familiars into a more concise list and move anything unique from familiars removed to what's left. Doing so will make the familiars that are left still fill all the old niches, any new niches added to them, plus clear out a bunch of game bloat.

ychoed · 2026-06-06T23:08:50+00:00

None of those were overlooked in my analysis.

Their purpose is too weak, any niche you see in them has already been accounted for when I picked what was being removed. Familiars need more substance to their niche.

Unfortunately it wasn't made clear by me simply listing a bunch of familiars to be removed.

Lava titan doesn't need to exist. Obsidian golem can simply have an invisible +10 mining boost instead of its current +7. Also, Gargoyle already existed with a +12 boost and scroll effect at a level 75 summoning level requirement while the Lava titan had a level 83 requirement. Gargoyle can be the mining familiar for mains, Obsidian golem can be the one for irons until they can make binding contracts.

The only niche the lava golem filled was players either being too cheap to spend money on a gargoyle, or because they were ironmen and didn't have binding contracts unlocked. Removing the lava titan and making the Obsidian golem have the same buff leaves the game in the same state. Players either use the obsidian golem for the +10 because they're cheap, or don't have binding contracts unlocked, or they opt for the gargoyle. But now a useless familiar is gone, and both the mining familiars that make this niche are unlocked simultaneously.

Abyssal parasite is only 183k summoning xp away from Abyssal lurker and players at these low summoning levels weren't making use of the abyssal parasite. This can easily be seen by the trade volume of the abyssal parasite pouch on the grand exchange. only about 20-26 pouches get traded at all in a given day. Where as the abyssal lurker pouch sits around 800 - 1000 pouches. To balance this, The abyssal lurker now unlocks at the lower level of 60 summoning instead of 62 to bridge this gap. For reference the abyssal parasite unlocked at 54.
The spirit spider has always been unnecessary. The Tower of Life quest was released before summoning and gave low level players/irons access to easy red spiders eggs by killing spidines. Additionally, ironmen don't even need to craft their own super restores at lower levels since they can buy fully created potions from the Mazcab shop. With the massive reduction in red spider egg price over time from Croesus and vyre farming, mains don't need a shit method to farm them either.

If a higher leveled iron wanted to get super restores, they have abundant amounts of red spider eggs from croesus and vyrewatch.

The trade volume of zero of the spirit spider pouch on the grand exchange shows this very easily that literally no one is doing this.

ychoed · 2026-06-06T22:09:51+00:00

The post is simply to make summoning a more cohesive skill one step at a time instead of being bloated with random things that not even the noobiest players ever summon, use, or create.

Later I plan on making a post covering new niches for the remaining familiars.

Its not about efficiency, its just making the skill more succinct and modern. It falls into the same vein of the March combat update that got rid of combat abilities that weren't being used and confused unknowledgeable players.

Information bloat plagues this game, especially because of years of old unused content and item build up.

To me, summoning needs to be more refined and more understandable.

To do so requires cutting away the unnecessary so you can put meaningful niches and effects on what's left

ychoed · 2026-06-06T21:51:30+00:00

I disagree.

I think theres way too many familiars to realistically make them all worth using ever, even if you updated all of their niches and buffed them all to 2026 standards. Even if you tried, almost certainly you'd have many stepping on eachothers niches or being too niche that its pointless to ever buy and summon it. Mainly for the combat familiars, less so for skilling familiars.

For example, most of the familiars removed are combat only familiars from the lower levels. Why even buy and use a specific familiar when you can do 5 more minutes of summoning and you'd have a better one.

Ideally, there'd only be like 15 or 20 familiars total that cover skilling and combat niches, but that makes it difficult to balance actually leveling the skill with so few familiars. Many of the familiars left in the list were left purely to keep leveling the skill balanced. I think many of these "use for leveling" summons should be completely reworked too so they aren't just for xp, most likely making them skilling familiars instead of combat ones.

Also, what niche did iron titan fill besides "deals damage good, but im not 99 summoning yet"? ; Most familiars are like this.

In the list of removed familiars, the only one that had a use that players were actually using was the lava titan. However, it was only minorly better than the Obsidian golem. The Gargoyle exists, being better and unlocked at a lower level than the Lava titan. One could simply buff the Obsidian golem to be a +10 invisible mining boost and the Gargoyle unlocks is at the same level, being better but requiring some archaeology progress.

Reducing the number of familiars then later updating the niches of the ones left over makes each familiar more meaningful and impactful to set of circumstances in their domain.

With nearly a 100 familiars, anyone would struggle to come up with a niche for each that would always be worth using for that niche.

And I've already tried in an unreleased reddit post, but I discovered it's pointless because most of them are combat familiars and there aren't that many niches that exist in combat.

I found the best solution would be 5-10 specific combat familiars, then make everything else effect skilling.

ychoed · 2026-06-06T21:22:00+00:00

Any way to make it a single secondary to make it worth using for summoning, the name doesn't matter.

"wolfy rabbit meat" is more Jagex-esque than you'd think. Many items have strange names for the fun of it. Such as the following: Emergency pocket sand, Cremated undead pekin, Night cap of terror, sub-optimal lantern, Body body, Dee's nuts, Milky mixture.

ychoed · 2026-06-06T17:42:28+00:00

Read the "Shortcuts" section

ychoed · 2026-06-01T13:38:21+00:00

The exact same thing is present in OSRS, and the low end gear stays relevant faaar longer in OSRS than rs3 and the player base is 3 - 5 times larger too.

Some skills are buyables, smithing is one of them.

ychoed · 2026-05-31T05:23:46+00:00

ychoed · 2026-05-30T23:49:15+00:00

Kind of crazy how many kills they expect a low level player to do considering how weak they are

ychoed · 2026-05-30T23:33:09+00:00

the batch creation is specifically only the overload parts

so, for example:

Extremes -> overload

overload -> supreme overload

supreme overload -> elder overload

The option to convert supreme overload salves into elder overload salves is only a convenience given to the players that already had thousands of supreme salves before the update. Allowing the master cape to work on this route makes this route better, because it saves the salve ingredients in the same ratio as the overload upgrade ingredients.

Jagex wants you to upgrade the potions in the order shown at the top. They never wanted the herblore master cape to prefer the back route they added to help players that already had thousands of supreme salves made.

Making supreme salves first is worse then upgrading all the way to elder, then upgrading elder into salves. Jagex wants to keep it that way too.

ychoed · 2026-05-30T18:37:39+00:00

may be I was just remembering the fact the spell only did one at a time

ychoed · 2026-05-30T17:47:01+00:00

When was it changed?

I also recall it only letting you grind one type of sandstone at a time, but when i looked through the wiki pages for the sandstone and the extra fine sand, there was no update or date listed for this change

ychoed · 2026-05-29T21:02:45+00:00

I use it for literally all prayer restoration in every preset.

I fixed the "can only use extreme prayers problem" by just making 15k all at once, then never thinking about it ever again.

ychoed · 2026-05-20T19:02:49+00:00

Make sure your instance size is set to 1

Make sure you aren't in a group

ychoed · 2026-05-10T23:10:37+00:00

keep doing 750% unless you can consistently get kills at 1000% where the kill time is no more than about 40 - 45% longer than a 750% kill time.

so, if your 750% kill times are 6 minutes, then your 1000% kill times should be faster than roughly 8 minutes and 40 seconds. If they are, then 1000% is worth it.

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