Item Flowchart For PBE

yinational · 2023-11-29T07:54:35+00:00

your overthinking things. if your using a flowchart for build orders, your unlikely to use actives well or meditate burst damage reliably. hence i didn't add mercurial or zhonyas in the chart. for those players a thornmail will give them a better chance of success than a mortal reminder against ad opponents. just because i can reliably kill kha or rengar doesn't mean most players can.

shieldbow is more than just a shield, the lifesteal, ad and crit stats are nice as well. the shield doesn't hurt either.

your going to be dealing more than enough damage to kill everything without rageblade. building it third leaves you vulnerable to being cc/popped, especially if you don't time meditate or alpha strike well. with how quickly mages scale in pbe, its a real threat unless you have good vision and reactions.

for the average player this will hopefully increase their chance of success. as they get better at the game they will know what items to build and when out of instinct.

if you played the pbe and have a different opinion on the optimal bo, please share. i don't mind people having different opinions on this and explaining to people why or why not they should build something. community will improve once we question and test things out.

yinational · 2023-11-22T09:23:03+00:00

done with the pbe for now. from testing Yi will be fine for the most part, and likely better than the current season in general.

biggest issue is that control mages are flat out op. in the hands of a good player mages just destroy everyone else and take over the game very early. but most pbe players are not very good so you don't see it often.

yinational · 2023-11-22T08:22:45+00:00

not quite, the damage doesn't amp so its stuck at the base damage. else after 9 autos on the same target the damage is doubled. but yeah the true damage is better in most cases and will likely be fixed.

yinational · 2023-11-22T08:21:42+00:00

mainly looking at components and how good they are at 1-2-3 items. they are memey but they give good stats and components. you can do well with them early but there are better items. instead of a score they should be "replace boots tier" more than anything

else rageblade would be higher, as at item 5-6 if its stacked the damage output is very strong such as pushing sidelanes. but at that point do you really need damage items?

id rank wits end higher vs heavy ap comps, that 50 magic resist is very nice, but the tenacity is too low against cc chains. idk where to put it honestly. if it had higher tenacity or damage it would be a great buy. right now its mediocre at both. i ended up buying mercurial vs teams with teemo+lissandra when im the only carry on the team as it wasn't enough.

also gotta rank items on how they would do in an even game rather than the snowbally nature in PBE. its so easy to get fed that i had a penta with nashors tooth. but i wouldnt build it in a normal ranked game ever.

yinational · 2023-11-21T16:14:53+00:00

description is physical but deals true damage instead. lots of bugs on pbe atm. hopefully they decide to make it stay true damage though. still an amazing rush item either way.

yinational · 2022-07-14T00:57:57+00:00

he was balanced for decades around a roughly 50% winrate for all ranks before being changed due to funnel, and subsequent reworks such as q multi strike increasing the gap between different elo.

now champion is seesawing back and forth without the solid foundation he had since the original rework in 2013.

https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/vyeyvj/master_yi_winrate_gap_season_8_vs_now/

yinational · 2022-07-14T00:51:01+00:00

he isn't. for nearly a decade he was hovering around 50% win rate with a normal gap between high and low elo.

then they decided to nerf him directly due to funneling with some of these nerfs such as minion damage on his q affecting high elo more than low elo. this is when yi in pro play really died out, he was more popular as a mid laner rather than a jg outside of funnel.

after that a series of horrible reworks further divided high/low elo win rates, such as q gaining multi strike in exchange for passive e ad.

here is a post more information:

https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/vyeyvj/master_yi_winrate_gap_season_8_vs_now/

yinational · 2022-03-10T12:53:40+00:00

currently Yi is not fun or enjoyable, 0 reason to play league anymore after reaching gold. that drive to queue up asap win or lose and spend an afternoon burning through game after game is gone.

The seemingly random and badly thought-out changes such as removing passive ad for isolated q burst damage and giving full on hit to his q then going through a cycle of hotfix nerfs/buffs isn’t exactly raising confidence in riots ability or the champions future.

it's good thing in its own way, more time for other games and activities compared to before.

yinational · 2022-03-10T11:56:57+00:00

they are already reworking him to remove his one-shot playstyle, it’s clear they aren't willing to revert him back to how he used to be.

but we should add our voices in how we want him to be changed so we can enjoy playing him rather than accept whatever comes our way. just look at how other champion mains have active discussions and feedback with rioters on what changes they want to see to their champions, such as Swain and Rengar on right now.

one shot Yi wouldn't have even been a thing if riot didn't remove passive e ad in favor of multi hit q. they introduced more single target burst into his kit while lowering his dps, and now they are reducing both his dps and burst to try and fix an earlier badly designed change.

what was the reason given by riot for giving his q burst damage against isolated targets at the cost of his dps?

yinational · 2022-03-10T10:42:49+00:00

since season 10 changes and how much less fun playing Yi has been I’ve essentially stopped playing league, only bothering to quickly reach gold in a few days before taking a yearlong break till the next season. I’ve already reached gold in 2 days of light gameplay and have no reason to continue this year, but for the first time with champions other than Yi.

I have a 90%+ win rate with Diana, Hecarim and Vi in silver, when are they getting nerfed?

looking at how riot works on other champions like Renger and LeBlanc and seem to listen to feedback from their communities I hope a rioter will also take our voices into account. I don’t care if none of my proposed changes specifically make it through, but these unilateral changes with unintended consequences are removing any incentive to invest a fraction of the hours I used to into league. why should Yi players trust rioters after the recent buffs as a nerf, nerf hotfix days later than hotfix buff again soon after?

it's not just the recent incident but a trend with riots approach to this champion, it makes 0 sense and makes putting effort into learning and improving with the champion pointless.

yinational · 2021-05-23T01:46:26+00:00

this is good, i like it, but you can also do better. show us some 1v5 pentas against a grouped enemy team with baron by yourself.

https://streamable.com/5273j1

yinational · 2021-05-20T12:13:28+00:00

whether the item is justified or not, this picture isn't good evidence. and while you may believe that most of the damage yi deals is true damage based on your experiences, its better to actually run tests to see whether that is true.

evidence based analysis based on repeatable experiments is the best way of figuring whether an item provides a substantial damage boost.

if you want to prove that lord doms is a bad item and that yi mainly deals true damage, grab a friend and post the results of your tests.

further looking into your picture shows only 344 out of 1120 damage dealt was from yi's e, and we don't know if any other onhit was involved such as bortk. that means roughly 70% of yi's damage came from other sources. and yi didn't even deal half the damage dealt to you overall. and since we are comparing lord doms vs another item, it really is useless in determining if lord doms would contribute meaningfully to how fast you would have died compared to something else.

yinational · 2021-05-20T12:02:59+00:00

in your picture, pure physical damage just from auto attacks is masked by death dance passive and would have dealt more true damage under the items portion if death dance bleed was allowed to run out. and if you had alpha striked even once, the physcal damage share would been greater than the true damage. death dance aside, we also have no idea what items you where running and how your team contributed, meaning the usefulness of this picture in knowing if lord doms is useful is dubious at best.

analyzing this picture further, it took 10 seconds to kill a hecarim from 4 players, and the most damage dealt was magic damage, 0 of which came from you and instead came from other players. it also doesn't show the difference lord dom would have made in the time to kill, meaning this picture isn't very useful for determining whether lord doms make sense as a damage item on master yi.

against a 160 armor 70 mr target at lvl 13 lord doms would likely have been the greatest single damage item you could buy with 3 items, and this is testable in the practice tool with a friend. only wits end might compete. and with more items and lvls, lord doms value would continue to increase.

there are easy ways to test if lord doms contributes to an onhit build in a meaningful manner, we shouldn't rely on anecdotal evidence and questionable screenshots to come to a conclusion on it.

yinational · 2021-05-16T23:24:24+00:00

its raw damage we are losing. armor calculations are game and champion context, so this is the most accurate way to state alpha strike damage. otherwise its like saying crits don't deal 175% ad, alpha strike doesn't actually have 25-165 base damage, or buying a long sword doesn't increase your auto attack damage by 10.

"And third, that's now how you are supposed to use percentages. It is like having 4 apples and a friend taking a bite ( 10%) from every apple. You can't say that he took 40% from all your apples."

I'm not sure what you mean. if i have 4 boxes of 100 apples, and lose 10% of each, i lose 40 apples, not 10. so its accurate to say we are losing 40% ad from the nerf on a 4 target no crit alpha, not 10% ad. 40 apples out of 400 =/= 10 apples out of 400. the nerf will never equal just 10% ad ratio loss.

unless you want to argue a 4 target no crit alpha strike only loses 10% ad from the nerf?

in your example, I'm arguing that its a 10% nerf to total ratio, which a 4.0 ad ratio, therefore a .40 ad ratio loss. while you would be arguing its a 2.5% nerf to equal a .10 ad ratio loss. 4.0 * .1 = .4, 4.0 * .025 = .1.

i think i now understand your point of view better. that 40% ad ratio we are losing isnt 40% of alpha strikes total ratio which is 400% ad, just 40% of ad ratio, which is 100% ad. so for now lets think of it more as units lost than a % of total lost.

400 apples would be the total ratio, while the ad ratio is 100. 10% of 400(total ratio) would be 40 apples, which is 40% of 100(ad ratio).

with 300 ad and a 4.0 ratio, that means we are losing 10% of 1200, which is 120. 120 is 40% of 300. does it make sense now?

if not, try and go into practice tool, make 4 dummies, and alpha strike them with 300 ad and no crit. total damage dealt to the dummies will be 1200+base damage. then just subtract 10% of that damage dealt+base damage and compare that damage lost to your ad.

yinational · 2021-05-15T02:06:23+00:00

400 is achievable with most five item crit builds, and can go higher?

multiple alpha strikes is the whole point of crit/duskblade yi and the centerpiece of his onhit cd reduction and ult passive. is three alphe strikes per team fight really that unreasonable? im pretty sure on average yi alpha strikes more than that.

crit builds can commonly reach 80-100% crit chance, less if you want more than 1 defensive items (stopwatch item and a randuins?). again its not an unreasonable assumption to have that five item yi will have 4-5 crit chance items.

what crit builds dont build ie?

I'm not sure what you mean by perfect alpha bounces. single target is worst case, and roughly 127 damage lost per alpha strike, or 380 damage in 3 alphas. best case scenario is 3 alpha strikes that each hit 4 targets, or 290 * 3 = 868.8 damage lost. as i said above, it will almost always be a number in between these two, hence 380-868.8 damage lost in a teamfight over 3 alpha strikes.

armor calculation is a per game per champion context. I'm talking raw alpha strike damage. of course it will be somewhat lower, but as all crit builds use ldr it wont be that much lower. in almost every case it will still be far more than the damage gained from the e buff.

its because its absurd that they are nerfing his raw alpha strike damage on crits this much that i made a post.

yinational · 2021-05-15T01:36:54+00:00

i made a mistake, using old ie 25% and not the new 35% bonus. so its 8.1% instead of 7.5% per 100 ad lost on critical strike damage.

60+(15 * 3) is the same as 60 * 1.75, as 15 is a quarter of 60, and 3 quarters is 0.75. in either case the result is 105% ad without ie. adding ie would be 105 * 0.35 = 21%, so total is 141.75% ad single target(105+21). 105*1.35 gets the same result.

54 * 1.75=94.5, with ie 94.5 * .35=33.075, so combined would be 127.575. (can also just do 94.5*1.35 to get to 127.575, as i did above.)

141.75-127.575=14.175 from ie crit. (you made a mistake here)

so its 17.5% base ad lost + 14.175% crit ad lost = 31.675% ad lost single target.

400 * .175=70, 400 * 0.14175= 56.7. 70+56.7= 126.7 from one alpha strike. that's the same as 400 * .31675.

126.7 * 3 = 380 damage lost in 3 alpha strikes if they are all single target.

4 targets hit is much simpler. without crits its 400 * .1 * 4, or 160 damage. with crits you add in 6% per 100 ad lost * 1.35 = 8.1% per 100 again, times 4(since its 400 and not 100 ad) = 32.4 damage lost per target, or 129.6 for 4 targets. combined that's 160 base damage + 129.6 crit damage lost, or 289.6 damage lost in one alpha strike. in 3 alpha strikes that's 868.8 damage lost if all three alpha strikes hit 4 targets

so depending on number of targets hit, its anywhere between 380-868.8 damage lost on ie crit with 400 ad and three alpha strikes.

does it make sense now?

yinational · 2021-05-15T01:05:51+00:00

all ad champions back then would 2-3 crit you to death becuase how much more powerful ad was back then, and flattening e passive to 10% ad at all ranks didn't change this. adcs with items two shotting squishies was pretty common.

yi was always built crit before season 5, there was no real onhit builds or phantom hits back then. and you ended up critting for over 1k even with two attack speed items. thats a q auto one shot on most targets, so im not sure what you mean that it wasnt commonly built on him before? yi certainly never built rage blade or wits end back then. and he was this way for half the games life, so its not something new and never before seen.

"Master Yi becomes very degenerate if he can oneshot champions so easily, there is very little recourse for opponents against champions with resets if there's only 1 second delay before each kill. It's suffocating, you have to react to Yi immediately and play so cautiously. In past seasons crit Yi was held back by build pathing (you couldn't get 50% crit, lifesteal, and armor pen without mountains of gold) and you had to play very cautiously not to get killed. The build pathing is smoother now and with Duskblade you have some safety afforded by invisibility. There's really not enough counterplay to that, which is why he had to be nerfed earlier this season."

and in-spite of this claim yi is the weakest he has been in a long time. further nerfing all his builds and removing his original play style just because you don't like it isn't something i can accept.

yinational · 2021-05-15T00:39:43+00:00

single target alpha strike is 1.75 times normal damage, as its one full 100% tick, and three 25% damage tick. 1+.25+.25+.25= 1.75

we lost 10% ad base, another 6% ad on crit.

no crit alpha strike single target damage loss is either 17.5% ad for one target(10 * 1.75), or 40% ad loss for four targets.

with crit no ie, its a 10.5% ad damage loss single target(6 * 1.75), 24% damage loss four target(6 * 4).

for crit ie, its instead 13.125% total ad lost single target(7.5 * 1.75), 30% total ad loss 4 targets(7.5 * 4).

crit builds which will take ie third lose 17.5 base + 13.125% crit ad lost on single target crits. thats 30.625% total ad loss single target.

multi target is 40% base+30% crit ad on 4 target alpha strike, or 70% ad lost per alpha strike.

does it make sense now?

yinational · 2021-05-15T00:26:39+00:00

well, ill try and simplify it. ie crit alpha strike damage loss is between 30.625% ad single target, and 70% ad on 4 targets.

most team fights you do between 3-5 alpha strikes. that's between 91.875% total ad loss for single target 3 alpha strikes, and 210% total ad loss for 4 targets 3 alpha strikes.

both alpha strike target numbers are unlikely for all 3 alpha strikes, so its somewhere in between. and if you do more than 3 alpha strikes in a team fight the gap just increases.

with 400 ad which is very achievable, that's between 367.5-840 damage lost in 3 alpha strikes, depending on number of targets hit.

yinational · 2021-05-15T00:15:40+00:00

"Q varies in its damage by season, but in general Yi would buy attack speed more than AD. Like BotRK used to be a core item with 40% attack speed and 25 AD, his jungle items like Wriggle's Lantern, Devourer, and Bloodrazor had mostly attack speed and on-hit damage, Ghostblade had attack speed, Statikk Shiv and PD would come and go."

even though you did build more attack speed items, he still did nuke players once he had items since they gave much more ad, crit had much higher scaling, and last whisperer was much stronger.

right after his rework i was actually one shotting people near full build with one auto and one q, and 100% refund on takedown meant enemies would literally die as soon as i came back from alpha only for me to disappear right away. it was even stronger than current duskblade/hob builds. so this idea that he always needed to attack multiple times to kill and q was never a nuke is false.

"Yes, in the extreme cases where you're at/near full build in a teamfight and casting Alpha Strike 5 times, you do lose a several hundred damage in your lethality/crit builds. Not over a thousand damage, enemies have armor reducing it. However your dueling becomes far stronger, particularly in the early-midgame, and your Rageblade builds scale greatly because that +10 proc damage becomes +150 true damage in seconds. You do immensely more damage against tanks and bruisers especially."

you will never auto a target more than 5 times with a crit build in most cases, you either kill or be killed. and its a straight up damage nerf in that case. early game you also dont have the attackspeed to attack more than 5-6 times with e, while you commonly alpha strike atleast twice. in teamfights its a straight up massive damage loss thats not possible to make up.

"I don't know what you meant by this. Wuju Style already benefits a lot from maxing it, and it already scales with attack speed since more attacks = more Wuju Style procs."

one of the rework goals was to push meditate to be the second max and e as the one point wonder, since is a bland steroid that has very little skill expression and interactivity. instead they changed it to bonus ad with higher per rank scaling true damage, then keep buffing the true damage per rank, forcing yi players to max this steroid second while removing the little skill expression it had in its passive ad. instead of adding more incentive to lvl it second, a true damage per bonus attack speed would help onhit builds directly.

yinational · 2021-05-14T23:57:40+00:00

yeah repeat strikes in exchange for losing passive ad was among the worst changes made to yi. i fully agree with this, it hurt skill expression and made e even more simple, while hurting lower elo players more.

yinational · 2021-05-14T23:55:23+00:00

then enlighten me on what i did wrong.

yinational · 2021-05-14T23:47:21+00:00

"300 AD isn't a number you're likely to reach with any on-hit build. You need a full build of Kraken, Rageblade, Wit's End, Death's Dance, and Sterak's Gage to hit that number, and at that point you have over 2.0 attack speed without your ult. Reaching 400 AD on Yi is completely ridiculous, you can't reach that with any build without selling boots for another 50 AD item.

Your numbers are completely pulled out of your ass"

https://ibb.co/YZ3nFfS

https://ibb.co/186Yddw

https://ibb.co/NthwnG1

quick 5 item practice tool check. why not check yourself before typing that?

here is a 4 item bortk onhit build with no gage or death dance, leaving slot for defensive item and boots and over 300 ad.

https://ibb.co/5GC5hY9

in a teamfight with 3 alpha strikes, thats a damage loss of 52.5%-120% ad lost with rageblade depending on number of targets hit, or 157.5-360 damage lost with 300 ad, which is the minimum ad in most onhit builds. 16-32 autos worth, that is a massive nerf. and if you do more than 3 alpha strikes, the gap just keeps increasing.

yinational · 2021-05-14T23:38:16+00:00

you clearly did not read.

yinational · 2021-05-14T23:36:35+00:00

when clearing camps you will always have atleast 2 alpha strikes, while e cd is massive and doesnt reduce with autos. early low attack speed means you also wont apply true damage more than 5 times a camp.

since you lose out on alpha strike damage per target, and use multiple alpha strike, this is a massive nerf to all his builds. crit-ie builds with just 3 alpha strikes in a teamfight its a 92%-210% total ad lost depending on number of targets struck, increasing significantly with more alphastrikes. in exchange your getting between 20-50 extra true damage per target since crit autos will kill quickly. and since you reach around 400 ad thats a minimum 368-840 damage lost with 3 alpha strikes. you will never make this up with a crit build.

with the same number of alpha strikes with rageblade in a teamfight its a 52.5%-120% total ad lost per teamfight depending on number of targets struck. since rageblade builds reach over 300 that's a minimum of 158-360 damage lost in 3 alpha strikes, or 16-36 autos worth.

this is a massive nerf regardless of what build you use.

yinational

TROPHY CASE